Tactica: Hamelin the Plagued

[Sandwich]

Play better games, your money is better spent elsewhere.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Sandwich

[tadaka]

Removed

Edited February 17, 2011 by tadaka

[Sandwich]

You're correct in that changes will be made, but

1. I love writing and need something to pass the time while I wait for my HW.

2. They're not going to completely rewrite the Crew, so the foundation is fine.

[tadaka]

Nm.

Edited February 17, 2011 by tadaka

[Sandwich]

I apologize for the massive delay.

I've been play testing and waiting for the release of the Rat Catchers.

The document is inbound, even after a couple setbacks.

It's coming soon, I promise everyone. :]

Edited March 27, 2011 by Sandwich

[Sandwich]

Heyooo

Look at that.

[FrereSebastian]

Sandwich I have three words for you:

well done sir

Edited March 27, 2011 by FrereSebastian

[Necromorph]

Very nice, man. Looking forward to the rest.

[Sandwich]

Added Rat Catchers.

Making a sandwich,

And then finishing up the General Tactics, and posting that.

[Sandwich]

General section Added!

Woohoo

Yipyip

[cain]

Cheat, give you back that 13:masks so that may then target something else with your Pipes.

If i read the new manual correctly, the 13mask is still "in play" as long the duel is not finished, so you cant draw it again immediately if your opponent cheats.

But after the duel the card lands on top of your discard pile, and now its time for your enemy to think about cheating in his next action.

Same conclusion, just a bit different timing...

[Necromorph]

Very nice general section there Sandwich.

I have a couple questions on specific crews, though.

1- Last time I played the Dreamer I used a Stolen based crew, and it worked (barely), but it kinda felt like an uphill struggle to keep things organized, and it seemed like he was more than willing to discard cards to stop me from using (1) Abandon. You mentioned briefly that identifying and locking down Terrifying models was a key to succes with Rats, but what happens when everything (or damn near) is Terrifying? The first game I played against the Dreamer (we tied) was a mess because my goddamn Rats and Catcher kept running all over the place.

2- The Ortega's...We all know them, we all hate them, but I feel they are one of those crews that you just have to know how to beat if you're going to be successful. I'm trying to wrap my head around how the f**k Hamelin would take them out. They have range on you, they can abuse Companion like none other, and they have retarded damage output. Even with Devoured and Covered in Rats, I don't really see the Rat Catcher standing up to their punishment, and if Hamelin could get into range to spam (1) Understand the Soulless, then he would be in range of all of their guns as well and would be nuked quickly. ...Oh and lets not forget (0) Shrug Off.

Most other crews I can figure my way around, these two (Ortega's in particualr) I feel need some clarification, as they seem to comprise two playstyles (Morale Spam and Keep-Away-Nukefest) that are strong counters to Hamelin. Feel free to toss some ideas out there whenever you get the chance, I know you're still working on completing the tactica, but I'm in no rush.

[tadaka]

Best thing you can do to counter terrifying crews is do your best to stay on a table edge. Even tho they run they don't go very far and you can keep them together. Plan this out when placing your mission objectives when you get the option.

Honestly I don't think Ortega crews will be all that bad just takes a different plan. Fact is you will not be able to just make them all insignificant. That being said it will take a few shots for them to bring down anything worthwhile in your crew. Hamlin will just keep coming back and doing 8 damage to an 2 armor model takes a lot of shots. And in the end you just make a new catcher. That's a lot of resources to take out 4 SS worth o models. Just focus on doing the mission and don't worry if they blast the crap out of Hamlin every turn.

[magicpockets]

Best thing you can do to counter terrifying crews is do your best to stay on a table edge. Even tho they run they don't go very far and you can keep them together. .

I thought if you were on a table edge and failed a morale test you died?

[Ratty]

Your right if your on a board edge you die. I think he means keep them close to the board edge so they run towards it. However most Terrifying is caused by models your engaged with and you run directly away from them rather than towards a board edge.

[Sandwich]

I won't disagree with you Ratty, but I was under the influence that you did not die unless it specifically states that you do.

But I'd see how you're right.

I'll add more crew specific strategies soon, regardless of how bad I feel about doing so.

[magicpockets]

If i read the new manual correctly, the 13mask is still "in play" as long the duel is not finished, so you cant draw it again immediately if your opponent cheats.

I asked this and had it confirmed that this is the case. You can draw from your deck or discard pile, not a card "in play" during a duel.

[Sandwich]

That is the current and correct ruling, when I next update the document, I'll change it.

Promise. :]

[tadaka]

Your right if your on a board edge you die. I think he means keep them close to the board edge so they run towards it. However most Terrifying is caused by models your engaged with and you run directly away from them rather than towards a board edge.

Yes basically if your all ready touching the edge then you die. Running to the edge just stops you. The point of being close to the edge is limiting how far your models can go. As rat said being right on the edge is a bad plan.

You are right about the terror models causing you to run away from them.

[Necromorph]

Like I said, I played a pretty much Stolen Only list against the Dreamer, and it worked, but it was very slow, and getting the Hamelin Pain Train going took much more time and planning, and it just felt a little bit frustrating sometimes because it's not just the tactic that is slow (because it's not really how Hamelin is supposed to operate), but your opponent having the right hand or the right mindset can deliberately slow the crew down even more.

The Ortega's I've just had a hard time in general dealing with. Levi gets owned by them in combination with Austringers, Von Schill just gets outshot (granted you are much more resilient, but it's still tough to not get caught on the back foot so to speak) and I haven't played them with Hamelin, but it just seems like a very lopsided matchup if both players are equally experienced. Not impossible mind you, it seems (pure speculation) that you would have to be on your "A Game" the whole encounter while the Ortega player just yawns, sits back, and blows the crap out of everything in range, with little fear of "direct" retaliation.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Necromorph

[tadaka]

The Ortega's I've just had a hard time in general dealing with. Levi gets owned by them in combination with Austringers, Von Schill just gets outshot (granted you are much more resilient, but it's still tough to not get caught on the back foot so to speak) and I haven't played them with Hamelin, but it just seems like a very lopsided matchup if both players are equally experienced. Not impossible mind you, it seems (pure speculation) that you would have to be on your "A Game" the whole encounter while the Ortega player just yawns, sits back, and blows the crap out of everything in range, with little fear of "direct" retaliation.

Eh I feel the same way as a former levi player about the ortega's. Your not alone it is just not as big a deal for ham.

[Sandwich]

Very nice general section there Sandwich.

I have a couple questions on specific crews, though.

1- Last time I played the Dreamer I used a Stolen based crew, and it worked (barely), but it kinda felt like an uphill struggle to keep things organized, and it seemed like he was more than willing to discard cards to stop me from using (1) Abandon. You mentioned briefly that identifying and locking down Terrifying models was a key to succes with Rats, but what happens when everything (or damn near) is Terrifying? The first game I played against the Dreamer (we tied) was a mess because my goddamn Rats and Catcher kept running all over the place.

2- The Ortega's...We all know them, we all hate them, but I feel they are one of those crews that you just have to know how to beat if you're going to be successful. I'm trying to wrap my head around how the f**k Hamelin would take them out. They have range on you, they can abuse Companion like none other, and they have retarded damage output. Even with Devoured and Covered in Rats, I don't really see the Rat Catcher standing up to their punishment, and if Hamelin could get into range to spam (1) Understand the Soulless, then he would be in range of all of their guns as well and would be nuked quickly. ...Oh and lets not forget (0) Shrug Off.

Most other crews I can figure my way around, these two (Ortega's in particualr) I feel need some clarification, as they seem to comprise two playstyles (Morale Spam and Keep-Away-Nukefest) that are strong counters to Hamelin. Feel free to toss some ideas out there whenever you get the chance, I know you're still working on completing the tactica, but I'm in no rush.

Well, I'm still contemplating whether or not I even want to do the document anymore or not, but I do like you and I'd love to help at least a little.

Starting with

The Dreamer: Obviously a Dreamer player worth his salt is going to drop a Terrifying -> 13 bomb on your Rat Swarm, its inevitable, so you need to prepare for it. Keep Hamelin at a distance so that when your opponent does drop the bomb, you're an immediate danger to him, without jeapordizing Hamelin. This is easily done as LCB and a bomb of either alps or Nightmares are all very melee heavy. As soon as possible you'll want to hit LCB with either (1)Understand the Soulless or your Pipes if you have a high Mask available. (High to you is really going to be a 9+ and a Soul Stone. He has a Df of 4 and a Wp of 5) so that he is no longer a danger.

In a game against the Dreamer, its okay to take kill schemes (Kill Protege or Grudge) as his models are fairly simple to kill when you have distance on your side.

I would also suggest pulling his Day Dreams to you with (1)Irresistible Lure and removing them quickly with whatever means you choose to stop the "In and Out" tactic of burying and unburying for maximum effect against his crew.

This also works well if you manage to pull Lord Chompy Bits to you after he is Insignificant and then pegging him with (1)Inevitable Truth.

All of these spells are quite easy to get off due to (0)Useless Toy and the fact that LCB is defensively disadvantaged.

If LCB can only target a model in which he cannot target and his Day Dreams are dealt with, you should find the recreation of a Rat Swarm fairly simple as their Terrifying ->13 should fade away during the next turn and your Rats can easily eat through whatever it is you need.

If your Rat Catcher was killed before you could disable LCB, you'll be hard pressed to create a new one, as you want Hamelin far away from the bomb, keeping LCB busy.

Although you could easily kill off LCB via (0)Fate is Meaningless and your Black Staff if you've a high card or two in your hand. (Casting (1)Bleeding Disease afterwards to guarantee a finished job if (1)Irresistible Lure did no damage or he healed somehow.)

LCB is your biggest adversary as he has a 3" aura of Terrifying->14. Once Chompy Bits dies, the dreamer becomes your next problem but is no real challenge to put down. You'll want to make sure he does not return to his Bomb at any point in time or else you'll face another Terrifying bomb that will be more and more difficult to remove.

As for replenishing your Rats, I suggest killing off a Stolen or two for something stupid like (All)Abandon to simple get the numbers needed for a Rat Catcher, at which point Nix can come in and kill things to renew your numbers. If you already had a Rat Catcher, you can just skip killing your Stolen and go straight for having Nix put things to death.

Another good idea is to take things like Stake a Claim and what have you so that you can just bait with a Rat Swarm and hold your Schemes for Vp, although I suggest the aforementioned strategy over this one.

The Ortegas

The Ortegas are best to Rat Swarm and be prepared to lose Hamelin a couple times. They've got great range, good resistance, and high damage output, so you're going to want to station Stolen here and there, well hidden behind cover and the like so that IF Hamelin is caught, it's not entirely game over.

Its hard to say what a well played Perdita crew is going to be doing because she's so versatile, so expect a shift in strategy constantly.

You'll be hard pressed to keep anything from hurting Hamelin or his Rat Catchers because of their (0)Shrug Off and (0/1/2)Spell Breaker? so don't even bother, instead focus on using Nix to beacon (0)Emptiness on their damage dealers so that the damage income is lessened slightly.

You'll need to play overly offensive with your Rat Swarm in order to survive.

Even if your models cannot block disengaging, they can still engage ranged models in melee to stop them from firing at Hamelin.

Try to use Nix and Hamelin to stop models from fleeing from your swarm and you should find your workload lessened slightly.

Hopefully, and I can't guarantee this will help, but hope you have a decent position on Nix's (0)Emptiness so that their models will be at . Even if your Rats are affected, you'll still be at an even flip due to (0)Impetuous.

Your Rat Swarm is going to be hard to put down due to the Ortega's lack of Terrifying-high # so you should be fine for most of the game.

Use Hamelin as a beat stick, but do not rely on his Pipes if Perdita has her 12" Aura thing up.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Sandwich

[Necromorph]

Thanks again, man.

With the Ortega's especially I was just sitting here like

"Well, maybe if I try- nope."

"Or maybe if I did this- nope, f*&k!."

Havent' actually played against her with Hamelin yet, but just theoryfax'ing I couldn't seem to wrap my head around taking her out. I'll play against her soon and try some stuff out.

[Sandwich]

Thanks again, man.

With the Ortega's especially I was just sitting here like

"Well, maybe if I try- nope."

"Or maybe if I did this- nope, f*&k!."

Havent' actually played against her with Hamelin yet, but just theoryfax'ing I couldn't seem to wrap my head around taking her out. I'll play against her soon and try some stuff out.

She's a lot like Rasputina.

Before you play her its just a constant Ohshi- she can do that?

Well then I'll just, Ohshi- she can do that?

Maybe if I put Hamelin here it'll ohshi- she can do that?

But once you actually field your crew against her its not so bad because she's better at spreading damage and you don't care about dispersed damage, although she can also focus fire one model to death.

And that model will obviously be Hamelin.

So try to be defensive with Nix until you've got your Stolen spread fairly well and don't be afraid to use a couple of kids to burn on any blight your Rats manage to apply while its there.

Don't forget that Perdita's Immune to Influence doesn't protect her from Horrible Realization, though she does ignore The Stolen's Harmless.

It gets easy to get her crew down once you really see how she's played against you.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Sandwich

[tadaka]

Well, I'm still contemplating whether or not I even want to do the document anymore or not, but I do like you and I'd love to help at least a little.

Well sand if it helps I would love to see any more work. Two reasons. First every crew could use a good tactica. Second If he is OP the more people learn him the faster others will come yelling about him and the sooner he will get fixed. Both ways the game is better O and its a very nice read so far.