WUWU Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) This is such a mess. The new rule book can't get here fast enough. I'm going to assume Ropetus meant actions above, instead of abilities, for the sake of the argument. There is nothing in the rulebooks that say actions require line of sight, only strikes and spells are specifically mentioned. The problem comes from "Attack" being defined in the errata, without any changes to the LoS rules. Pg. 24 Line of Sight Many game actions, such as making a ranged attack or charging, require Line of Sight Many game actions, huh? now, it later goes on to say -without any previous mentioned of attack, mind you- If, for any reason, an acting model does not have LoS to its declared target, the attack is not legal... There is a similar sentence in the Strike section of the rule book as well Now, maybe my brain is just broken or something, but this doesn't read that "anything that targets requires line of sight" Ignoring the fact that this MAJOR RULE is hidden under a different sub heading (strikes) and only makes sense after the attack errata, it still doesn't mean anything that targets requires line of sight, only attacks. So, for instance, Candy's Sweets could target a friendly model without having line of sight because it's not an attack, even though it targets. That's just off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are other examples. I would love it if someone could point me to the section that says, "everything that targets requires line of sight" because I think I'm going crazy looking for it. edit: took me about two seconds to find another action. Shikome's Hunting Partner, it targets but is not an attack, so would not require line of sight. edit again: Most of Kirai's crew have similar actions... target a friendly model within x", no damage is inflicted and no resist flip Edited February 24, 2011 by WUWU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ropetus Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Keyword is target. If a Talent requires a target, it also requires LoS to the target, unless otherwise specified. Gamble Your Life!: "Target model blaa blaa blaa..." requires LoS because it has a target. Illusionist: "Switch this model and friendly Showgirl within 18"." has no target, thus no LoS is required. -Ropetus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 This is such a mess. The new rule book can't get here fast enough. I'm going to assume Ropetus meant actions above, instead of abilities, for the sake of the argument. There is nothing in the rulebooks that say actions require line of sight, only strikes and spells are specifically mentioned. The problem comes from "Attack" being defined in the errata, without any changes to the LoS rules. Pg. 24 Line of Sight Many game actions, huh? now, it later goes on to say -without any previous mentioned of attack, mind you- There is a similar sentence in the Strike section of the rule book as well Now, maybe my brain is just broken or something, but this doesn't read that "anything that targets requires line of sight" Ignoring the fact that this MAJOR RULE is hidden under a different sub heading (strikes) and only makes sense after the attack errata, it still doesn't mean anything that targets requires line of sight, only attacks. So, for instance, Candy's Sweets could target a friendly model without having line of sight because it's not an attack, even though it targets. That's just off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are other examples. I would love it if someone could point me to the section that says, "everything that targets requires line of sight" because I think I'm going crazy looking for it. edit: took me about two seconds to find another action. Shikome's Hunting Partner, it targets but is not an attack, so would not require line of sight. edit again: Most of Kirai's crew have similar actions... target a friendly model within x", no damage is inflicted and no resist flip WUWU, your letting yourself get way to tied up man. Target implies LoS and unless it states target or something like that, then it does not require LoS. Ropey has it right. The key word IS Target. Just let it go at that man. The Rules Manual should fix this, just let it be at this for now before you get yourself twisted into even more knots ok man? Action, Attack, etc, if it states Target it NEEDS LoS. Gamble your Life is a primary example of this because it is not an attack, yet states Target and thus requires LoS. You know the intention now man, that should be enough to keep playing with it =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have 3 q's, all of which arose during a recent game and re.Pandora: a) does she get to push when she succssfully casts a spell which uses a wp stat as its resist? I says wp duel, not wp wp duel on the card..... I may be wrong, but I thought she counted as successfully casting and winning a wp duel. b)When Pandora casts project emotions on a mask crow, is it only the original model that is affected by the trigger. As each model makes a resist duel separetly i thought the trigger would apply to all, but again I may be wrong c)I thought that if a defender drew with an attackers duel total when the were casting a spell it was cancelled, but have been told instead that the attacker, not the defender, wins the duel. Is this the case (I hope it is!!!!) Thanks, Mcdoogle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 a) no all who fail their resist have to run c) attacker wins the duell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 a) For the enemy it's a WP duel but for Pandora it's a CA duel, hence no Fading Memory. Not sure on this one tbh c) The defender needs to exceed the attacker's duel total to successfully defend - it's not enough to just tie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 b)When Pandora casts project emotions on a mask crow, is it only the original model that is affected by the trigger. As each model makes a resist duel separetly i thought the trigger would apply to all, but again I may be wrong Answers yes trigger states that defenders who lose the resist duel fall back. The spell says models under blast make a resist duel. Language shows that any model who loses the defense against the spell will be impacted by trigger. Will check rules manual to see if triggers are only limited to original target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Page 26 second paragraph last sentence. Additional models are not affected by the trigger unless it is stated otherwise in its description.Take it as you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I thought that was the case just got done reading triggers and was about to update. So b is clearly a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 It was too good anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wow I didn't even get a chance to reply heh. All looks good. How goes Pandora McDoogle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wow I didn't even get a chance to reply heh. All looks good. How goes Pandora McDoogle? He's doing very well with her.. My Zoraida still managed to just pull off a win though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 He's doing very well with her.. My Zoraida still managed to just pull off a win though. Oh you and McDoogle play? Awesome =D It's odd to say, but I'm always glad to see people beat Pandora =D. Helps discredit the OP none-sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Oh you and McDoogle play? Awesome =D It's odd to say, but I'm always glad to see people beat Pandora =D. Helps discredit the OP none-sense. I have better than average luck, I've played her a lot of times and have only lost once. Saying that I do think she is slightly overpowered. Part of me does wonder why she has such a large SS cache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wow I didn't even get a chance to reply heh. All looks good. How goes Pandora McDoogle? Very well thankyou. As Ratty said I narrowly lost to his beautifly painted Z crew: rules for reconnoiter have changed and Pandora does not like will power 10 models. I learned (finally) not to spearhead with the twins, and they died turn 2 (von schill and voodoos conduit). lost by one vp, very close!!! I still had a stitched and Pandora against Z but just couldnt het through her wp, and I killed von schill and the doppleganger by making them flee! Huzzah! Quick q) Karn- is rllying still an all action, i.e. if I cast dementia on a fleeing model and it fails its wp duel, does it keep running, or does it just rally and have to take wp duels tro use its zero actions and to pass twice? Hope all is well and regards, McDoogle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Quick q) Karn- is rllying still an all action, i.e. if I cast dementia on a fleeing model and it fails its wp duel, does it keep running, or does it just rally and have to take wp duels tro use its zero actions and to pass twice? Hope all is well and regards, McDoogle. It will rally as rallying isn't taking an action. Also remember you don't have to pass when rallying you just can't make movement actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yeah what Ratty said. Thankfully some of the teeth have been removed from falling back. Once that falling back model activates, they rally then. Rules manual FTW XD But it is still an extremely dangerous effect. So no more using Dementia to lock a model into falling back =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wow I didn't even get a chance to reply heh. All looks good. How goes Pandora McDoogle?Someone feeling a little left out. Don't worry Karn, we just want to get your back every now and then. We will leave the tricky ones to you. :guns: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Yeah what Ratty said. Thankfully some of the teeth have been removed from falling back. Once that falling back model activates, they rally then. Rules manual FTW XD But it is still an extremely dangerous effect. So no more using Dementia to lock a model into falling back =) I agree,I no longer feel I have to apologise for using the trigger!!!! But Insidious Madness hysteria ability (i think thats the rallying wp-wp and a - flip for both models due to another ability) still works, right? How about: Pandora 2x IM 8ss 2x Stitched 10ss Primodial magic 2ss either a 3rd stitched or an insidious madness, or, more likely, a sorrow and cache 7. It would be an alternative to the lelu/lilitu 25ss list I run, mainly for missons like plant evidence and reconnoiter, and as i quicker list based on maximising emotional trauma, and pandoras spells (with a - to wp and fleeing effects) I coiuld drop the PM and take a sorrow and a 3rd IM as well.... thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I agree,I no longer feel I have to apologise for using the trigger!!!! But Insidious Madness hysteria ability (i think thats the rallying wp-wp and a - flip for both models due to another ability) still works, right? How about: Pandora 2x IM 8ss 2x Stitched 10ss Primodial magic 2ss either a 3rd stitched or an insidious madness, or, more likely, a sorrow and cache 7. It would be an alternative to the lelu/lilitu 25ss list I run, mainly for missons like plant evidence and reconnoiter, and as i quicker list based on maximising emotional trauma, and pandoras spells (with a - to wp and fleeing effects) I coiuld drop the PM and take a sorrow and a 3rd IM as well.... thoughts? No that is certainly a solid looking list. I would take the Sorrow so that Pandora can bump up her threat a bit and at the same time have a little extra protection against dirrect attacks. That will certainly work, IM are great for any objective capping and with proper placements you can make them a pain in hte but to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 No that is certainly a solid looking list. I would take the Sorrow so that Pandora can bump up her threat a bit and at the same time have a little extra protection against dirrect attacks. That will certainly work, IM are great for any objective capping and with proper placements you can make them a pain in hte but to deal with. clcl. er, how do you deal with zoroida btw? Pandora couldnt touch her the other week!! And the hooded rider- seemingly rated by everyone bar myself as an obvious inclusion in my pandora list, what to you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 clcl. er, how do you deal with zoroida btw? Pandora couldnt touch her the other week!! And the hooded rider- seemingly rated by everyone bar myself as an obvious inclusion in my pandora list, what to you think? Well if I know I am going up against Zoraida, I will take an all melee crew with Pandora. The Rider, Kade, Teddy, etc and just try to either attack her with overwhelming force, or take a fast crew and focus on objectives. But yes, otherwise Zoraida is hard to directly assault with Wp duels, but you can always just deal with her crew first and then hopefully avoid/ignore her if you don't have the ranged/melee to deal with her. As for the Rider, well I love him with Pandora because of his Hit and run ability really. Mounted Combat is a great ability and with the right cycle of his main ability (Forget the name) you can deal with most any situation. Sure he doesn't have any direct synergy with Pandora, but Pandora actually benefits from that. Because when she hyper focuses to much on Wp based attacks, masters like Zoraida are going to be a pain in the but. So it's always good to have a big melee monster with you and the Rider's speed and diversity makes him the most appealing in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well if I know I am going up against Zoraida, I will take an all melee crew with Pandora. The Rider, Kade, Teddy, etc and just try to either attack her with overwhelming force, or take a fast crew and focus on objectives. But yes, otherwise Zoraida is hard to directly assault with Wp duels, but you can always just deal with her crew first and then hopefully avoid/ignore her if you don't have the ranged/melee to deal with her. As for the Rider, well I love him with Pandora because of his Hit and run ability really. Mounted Combat is a great ability and with the right cycle of his main ability (Forget the name) you can deal with most any situation. Sure he doesn't have any direct synergy with Pandora, but Pandora actually benefits from that. Because when she hyper focuses to much on Wp based attacks, masters like Zoraida are going to be a pain in the but. So it's always good to have a big melee monster with you and the Rider's speed and diversity makes him the most appealing in my opinion. Hmmm, ok will give an anti-z list another go. I asked as he seems fragile...only one way to find out!!! Cheers Karn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.