tactica: C. Hoffman

[izikial]

I know there is already a thread about the hoff, but it dosnt really go into how he plays and list selection. Im finding it hard to undersand his synergys, every time i think i have found something good i realise is dosnt work, (canceling ryle's not a friend thing and using shiled wall and overprotectiv together). so a few things to start of.

1)what lists are peaple liking.

2)witch totem do you prefer,(i know its not the favorite, but i prefer the mobile toolkit, its a good target to slow, you can make it move to the hoff ready for his activation, and it can heal without having to cast a spell or kill anything)

3)what constructs do you keep near him, for the armor and all the other bonuses he gets

4) just how are you playing him

i know he is good, but i need showing the way, at the minuite i cant unlock his potential. I look forward to your views

[Iamwyrd]

I bring joss for one. Moving him quickly with Joss. I then bring the steamborg eaxecutioner, just because, why not it is good. I also bring the hoffs totem because a robot with a gun is awesome. Lol. But the tool kit is probably a better choice.

I also bring a watcher to sit in the back and let me look at the next two cards of my deck.

Then a guardian, because even if he misses with his shield attack he still hits, and that's good enough for me.

I'm not a fan of the hunter, its ok.

Then finally the peacekeeper, why not bring one. It ignores its two bad abilities and Hoff can tag around with him for some carnage.

These are my ideas/opinions about it. I can't wait for his model to coming out, I sculpted my own but I want him for real too.

[izikial]

yh im thinking peackeeper to play tag with, i dont have my book 1, could you tell me the peackeepers armor, i like a hunter to move round with hoffman, between it and the peackeeper i can pull anything i want in range of a open circuit or a critical ss torch attack, im not keep on taking much arcanist stuff, esspecial as it cast more, i feal a bit like im beaing cheated, i really like ryle, on a sever and a trigger he gets 3 damage flips witch you can eather use to cut through low wound armord things like spiders or hard to kill stuff, or if you can get all your flips high you do 12 dg witch isnt bad for 1 ap.

[Iamwyrd]

I'm actually at work so I do t have my book I front of me either. But I think it has armor 2 but don't quote me.

[izikial]

ok thanks dude

[GuySmiley]

The Peacekeeper does have armor 2.

I am surprised neither you of you mentioned the Guardian. If you need the heal on Hoffman then you can assimilate his self repair and get the healing flip for no action points. On the other hand the guardian healing itself will set off feedback. That combined with the outrageous armor possibility granted by the guardian makes Hoff pretty tough to kill.

On the other hand if your looking at wanting to move Hoffman quickly then you can shadow an enemy with the hunter and then have him drag Hoffman across the board as they move. Although I might be a bit nervous about throwing him out there like that. (but if your dealing an opponent who split his force up it might be handy)

I haven't gotten to far into the arcanist constructs yet, as I am still trying to come up with more combination based on what the guild has. Mostly this is because of the increased cost but also because I don't want to sully the name of an upstanding Guild Master. :secruity:

[izikial]

its really hard to get the armor from the guardian, cus if he is trying to keep up with the hoff then he cant do the all action for sw, i dont think shadowing pulls him, i think drawn to metle just says when they make a move, meaning he cant be drawn to it cus shadowing lets you push = to your wk, but not actualy walk

Edited September 20, 2010 by izikial

[Nutcase168]

Even without shield wall the guardian has armor 2 and the ability to take hits for Hoffman.

I see the appeal of Joss, but every time you use his reactivate he'll take 2 wounds so you have to heal him a bunch. Plus he'd be 10 SS. The steamborg is not good IMO as he'd be 11 stones and only Ramos can heal him, nothing else. So despite Armor one he could go down quick.

I like the watcher, guardian and peace keeper with him. Maybe the mechanical rider as a speed option.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Nutcase168
spelling

[izikial]

i supose armor 2 is nice, but i plan on having hoff folllow the peackeeper around, so that gives me armor 2, and i can use hoff to make the big guy lash out or reactivate him, so the guardian armor would be surplus, but the guardian could take the hits and (0) heal i supose. im not a fan of joss in general, i play him with my ramos, but i find i always end up doing things in the rong order with his counters, thats just my prefrance (and supidity), i agree the steamborg is to costly and niche to work consistantly well with the hoff. im not seeing much love for ryle, what do peaple have against him, i read on a post today that hoffman can remove ryles not being a freindly cus his ability dosnt target ryle and ryles ability stopes him being targeted by freinds not effected, witch makes him alot better and if he is near the hoff he sudo gives hoff a ranged atack with machine pupet, or the hoff can heal him (even though i think the hoffs heal is way to costly, 15 and anothere sute to cast, with unmodifide ca thats 5 cards out of 54 that will cast it, and it requiers a dead construct, and hoffman is all about stoping them dieing in the first place), one of the reasons i like the moblie tollkit, is it alows me to heal something then through companion activate the hoff who can then make the tollkit slow (not that it maters) to gain fast, and if you have the cards you can reactivate the peackeeper again and link in so its activating after you, you can with your fast action make the peackeeper atack then activate the peackeeper again.

[Sholto]

I think the Steamborg can ignore the Ability that says only Ramos can heal him, due to Hoffman being there.

[GuySmiley]

You are completely right about drawn to metal not working with the hunter’s shadow ability. Shadow works off of when the enemy model does a wk or charge but the hunter itself is not announcing wk or charge. I guess it was just my hopeful thinking to make that one work together.

So it seems the peacekeeper or watcher is going to be the key to moving him quickly. Although I still don’t think that is a great plan. The reason he has dampening is because he needs to move forward as one nasty brick of pain and fury. So you really don’t want to outrun the other constructs.

I am a big fan of Ryle with Hoffman but that just seems to be a given. After all they are brothers so it just seems right.

As for the guardian. If you don’t want to burn the activations on shield wall, then why not shoot him? Use his defensive trigger to cast shield wall. The he can heal himself or tool can heal him later. I am mostly thinking that there is a lot of different ways to get 2 armor but only a few to get 4. The guardian seems to be a pretty awesome choice to me.

The peacekeeper is a great model. I think that keeping him close to hoffman so that you can go fishing for models is great. Honestly, one of the biggest problems I am facing with Hoffman is how to deal with the soulstone cost of his units.

[Goldstep]

Is there a good reason to have more than one construct in B2B with the Hoff?

It seems like a bit of a liability in that (for example) you are just as likely to hit a Guardian with DF as Hoff and you are just as likely to HURT the Guardian as Hoff but if you hurt the Guardian, you ALSO hurt Hoff.

I know you want to have High armor stuff close (but not nessessarily B2B) and that it helps casting to have constructs close (even if not B2B) but I'm focusing where this is more a liability than a boon.

[GuySmiley]

He gets better for each construct in b2b with him which is nice. Also he really doesn't care about blasts, aura, or pulses. So it is going to be pretty tough to mess him up to much even though he is bunched up.

[izikial]

sadly the trigger for the shiald wall says "after resolving a duel with an enamy modle" so sadly you can trigger it yourself, anoying but true.

I am slowly going of the hunter sadly, he dosnt have enough awsome in my opinion, i only ever use him to pull things close to hoffman, (hoffman is a melee beast, 6cb with a ram and crit, so his damage is basicly 4/5/7 at least and ignoring armor, amazing),

my basic list at 35ss is

hoff +4 ss cach

peackeeper -9

ryle -8

mobile toolkit -4

guardian -7

2 watchers -6

5 cach tottal

i basicly have the peackeeper pulling hoff with a guardian on his left or right, and a toolkit following up the rear, and ryle walking around within 4". the watchers, one stays at the back card sifting, and the othere goes forthe to mark targets and the like. the peackeeper runs up then pulls stuff to the hoff for a ss torch attack or a open circuit, hoff trys reactivating the peackeeper if he can, if not he jus mechine puppets it to pull things, the guardian keeps up by walking and then overprotectiv to keep up, and uses shield wall if posable. ryle gives me a ranged punch and i can control him to shoot more or make him reactivate to make swis chees. and the toolkit is jus there to heal, buff the hoff and be made slow by the hoff.

In my opinion 3 constructs is the right amount to have next to hoff, 8 ca is a good number as it lets you cast his tough spells more often than you fail as long as you get the suite, and 5 damage open circuit lets you kill most small non construct swarmy things.

[izikial]

also the watcher cant pull him as its not ht 2 or above, and jus noticed there is no point in giving hoffman armor, as his ability says take a constructs armor, not you may take, so you want to give anothere modle the armor bounes's not the hoff so the hoff can steal it of them. if you use stalwart on the peeckeeper and then protect it, the peackeeper gets armor 4 and as he never takes damage (the guardian dose) he dosnt trigger the down side of stalwart, and then the hoff can just steal armor 4 of the peackeeper, or in special ocasions shield wall the peackeeper then the hoff gets armor 6, and with overprotectiv you can afford to spend the first turn doing stalwart and protect, and from then on you only need to refresh stalwart, so he can run after the guys and stay near the hoff.

sorry i ramble when i get ideas

Edited September 21, 2010 by izikial

[gunpowder saint]

C. Hoffman should hire Rusty Alyce. Because She can give a Construct Reactivate, but at a cost. C. Hoffman can Also give a construct reactivate. This has lead me to some interesting ideas. Also she's a construct, so she is subject to Machine Puppet, Open Circut, and Drawn to Metal.

She can then cast Snares, causing people to stick just a safe distance away before C. Hoffman Blasts them away with an Open Circut. He doesn't get Two cards, and she costs two additional stones but seriously!? I really want her with Hofman. lol

[Thanos]

Alyce isn't a construct, just soulless IIRC. And I don't know if her spells plus her gun would be worth the 10 SS without the card draw.

[gunpowder saint]

brilliance has struck me!!

take the Preformers! I know they cost alot, and I know the Manaquin can only link to the showgirl but ya know what?

"Preformer Clothing" is an ability, and we can ignore that ability, can't we boys? :] C. Hoffman has 2 Manaquins hanging out with him. Linked and everything. That's 3 armor boys. Not to mention those things are impossible to kill. Follow you around, give you +2Ca, and whole lot more fun :]

also! if you assimilate link, it won't end until you end the closing phase apart from each other so if you assimilate link, and then have C. Hoffman have 2 Manaquins link to him, and have him link to someone else, it's almost a garentee that you'll have those 3 contructs by your side Always!

Edited November 16, 2010 by gunpowder saint

[Wodschow]

Three things:

1 - Hoffman already have an ability superior to Link (Drawn to Metal), no reason to assimilate it.

2 - Hoffman won't be Walking on his own that much so the Mannequins will only follow when he ends his activation.. (So won't be around to boost his Ca)

3- A model can only be linked to one model at a time so you cannot link two models to Hoffman (since that means he'd be linked to two models).

Edit: Nevermind 2 and 3 as this wasn't what you actually suggested, although I fail to see how you plan on having two mannequins close to Hoffman at all times unless you plan on staying at the same spot all the time..

Edited November 16, 2010 by Wodschow

[HopelessHeretic]

The list I run with hoffman is

Ryle 8

Guardian 7

Watcher 3

Showgirl and mannequin 8

Copellius 9

This list is a defensive power house. It has to stay close together though. You have the guardian protect Copellius making him a pain to kill. You have the mannequin link to the performer and have the performer right behind Ryle. This allows Ryle to move forward 4" with his zero then focus shoot something and use ranged expert. Have Hoffman tap the mannequin for fast every turn since slow does not stack. Use the extra action for mirrors or to have Ryle shoot again. Then override edict on Ryle and have him shoot some more. If the enemy gets too close have Copellius paralyze it and then have the performer give it poison 4. When Ryle inevitably dies have hoffman pick up the scrap ands act as a walking bomb with detonate scrap.

This is a very odd way to run Hoffman but it is a tone of fun and very powerful.

-Heretic

[pfuetzi]

I am really fond of the design and artwork of C.Hoffman. So, I am thinking of adding him to my masters. Now, I am planing on playing him more balls out. To do so, I would like to include the spider swarm to give Hoffman either melee master and/or self repair. Hoffman has quite an impressive damage output with his fist and open circuit which might make him more of a frontline master than you would expect. A second swarm would be nice to in order to swarm apart early in order to reduce minions df but that might also be helped with a couple of extra SS. A problem is that only very few ss are left to include minions that bring Hoffman to the front. I was thinking about the ht2 spider or the hunter. What do you think of this approach. Can Hoffman be the man to smash faces himself?

[Necromorph]

Hi, all.

So my friend got Hoffman Thursday, and has played a couple games, but...we've come to the conclusion that Hoff's starter (even with Ryle added) is pretty underwhelming in the damage department.

We talked about possible things for him to run, and other things I've read on the forums, and I wanted to throw the list he came up with out there to see if he's headed in the right direction.

35ss - 5ss cache.

Hoff -

Ryle- 8ss

Peacekeeper- 9ss

Joss - 10ss (I'm assuming out of faction costs apply?)

Guardian - 7ss

This was what he wanted to run, my only problem with it is that you will be getting out-activated HARD. Not to mention the fact that all of those big, nasty models will be fighting over Hoffman's buffs and such. I suggested to him that he look into getting some SPArachnids to give him some cheap grunts, and he probably will, but what do you guys think?

[Dumb Luck]

The Watchers are excellent cheap activations. They're not stellar in every situation true but they are very handy in some scenarios such as Line in the Sand or Plant Evidence. Aside from the toolkit, I don't think Hoffman desperately needs to hire out of faction stuff. His box is a decent enough start. The list I normally run in 35SS is

Hoffman (Cache of 4)

Toolkit

Two Guardians

Peacekeeper

Ryle

Yes, it is very small and it will be outactivated but it seems to be doing very well. Keeping everyone bunched up is important. They can't be effected by blasts due to Dampening, so there's no worry in doing so. I find the gang attempts to complete its objectives quickly (in the case of Plant Evidence or Treasure Hunt), then finds a suitable place to bunker down for the rest of the gang. Although its not a quick crew by any means, the amount of pushes does afford it a degree of flexibility within a six inch bubble of Hoffman.

The Toolkit is pricey but I reckon the healing is important. Ryle and the Guardians are pretty self explanitory when it comes to their conclusion. The most interesting inclusion is the Peacekeeper. More than anything else, I have found its biggest strengths are getting Hoffman where he needs to be (thanks to Drawn to Metal) or completeing objectives early. Dump your hand with Relentless, grab a marker and then run off with it!

My two troubling thoughts are this. First, I'm not entirely sold on the Hunters. I know they're useful (Plus Three Positive Flip on unactivated stuff in close combat is nuts) but I can't seem to justify their place in the crew above Ryle or the others. The other thing is the gang's defence across the board is absolutely terrible. Guardians are important to cover this up with Stalwarts etc and when playing against Hoffman, I would always target them first.

[Necromorph]

My two troubling thoughts are this. First, I'm not entirely sold on the Hunters. I know they're useful (Plus Three Positive Flip on unactivated stuff in close combat is nuts) but I can't seem to justify their place in the crew above Ryle or the others. The other thing is the gang's defence across the board is absolutely terrible. Guardians are important to cover this up with Stalwarts etc and when playing against Hoffman, I would always target them first.

That's what we noticed. Hoff seems to "need" a Guardian(s), and Hunters are rarely worth it when a couple more points can get you something much more scary and resilient. He's definitely getting a Peacekeeper and Ryle, but he's also really sold on Joss and the SPArachnids. I mean, money aside, I guess he could get everyting and just piece stuff together until he finds what works, lol.

[Iron Skies]

Gonna throw my thoughts in here as well.

The list I've been running the Hoff with at the moment has been.

35 SS

Hoff - 4 Cache

Spider swarm - 10ss

Guardian - 7ss

Hunter - 6ss

Ryle - 8ss

Watcher (till attendant is out) - 3ss

Total 34 stones 1 for pool

So far I've found that keeping them within 4" of the Hoff (using the Watcher to go after objectives like destroy the evidence) has worked well. Keep Hoff in base contact with the guardian and use the spider swarm and hunter as your main melee power with Ryle infront of the Hoff as a damage sink/LOS blocker. Coupled with machine puppet on Ryle with his gun has helped (15 wounds on Lady J in one game for 1ap)

I've found that I only really make a construct slow once a game. And thats only been to give the Hoff fast for more machine puppet madness, usually when the spider swarm is in melee with something scary.

My overall thoughts on the Hoff so far is best used as support to bolster a construct at a key time (More shooting/more melee etc) and so far have only used open circuit in one game. Overide edict has been used the most out of his spells but usually only to remove the slow on the guardian (Cheeky shield bash too)