Tactica: Lucius

[oozeboss]

I can't wait for the Guild Guard/Friekorps showdown.

Funnily enuff, these are precisely my two main non - Neverborn crews

(I also have Ophelia, but that was an impulse buy which will serve as occasional comic relief).

Von Schill is now painted/ Lucius ordered & paid for.

And having once worked for the Director of Public Prosecutions, the appeal for me is the very real way in which the legal profession and its political string-pullers are portrayed!

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

[Jonas Albrecht]

Funnily enuff, these are precisely my two main non - Neverborn crews

(I also have Ophelia, but that was an impulse buy which will serve as occasional comic relief).

Von Schill is now painted/ Lucius ordered & paid for.

And having once worked for the Director of Public Prosecutions, the appeal for me is the very real way in which the legal profession and its political string-pullers are portrayed!

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

I'm planning on running the box against Tuesday's 'Korps when it arrives, but I am feeling the itch to play a little more Guard centric, trading off the Lawyer and Ryle for two Guards and an Austringer.

[gunpowder saint]

Curious what people think of this list:

Lucius: 3 soulstones

Drill Sarge: 3

2x Guild Captains: 14

3x Guards: 12

Lawyer: 7

39/35

General idea is When Lucius activates his captains activate who activate 2 guards. Between the Drill Sarge and Lucius that is a lot of fire power. Lawyer helps provides some additional defense. Biggest issue I see with this force is speed (which hopefully won't be much of an issue with Lucius).

the Guard to Captain ratio is going to mess you up :\ or at least it messes me up in that numbering.

Activate Lucius and two Captains and the Drill Sergeant with Companion. With "Officer" you active Two Guards, now your third is left to do whatever. Normally I run with 4 Guardsman to One Captain.

That way you activate Lucius and One Captain, use the captain ability and then Patrol. Therefor you active

Lucius,

Guild Guard Captain

and 3 Guardsman and the Drill Sergeant.

a lot more bang for your buck that way.

[[.Also side note, because I'm an Enormous Military Nerd! the Fluff behind my set-up is 1 Platoon Leader (female mold with alternate paint) 3 Platoon Members, and the Guard Captain. <,< also, ask Hippieshopper about 1st and 2nd Platoon. Because sometimes I run with both. But mostly I run with the 2nd Platoon, they're battle hardened and have proven themselves more useful for some reason lol.]]

[gunpowder saint]

Also! One question.

Does ANYONE use Hidden Sniper? The damage is awful, the cast is his melee combat, you NEED ram. the Range is good and not needing LoS is good

but is it Worth ALL THAT? I play Lucius All the time, and I've honestly tried it only once or twice. One time with the 13 :rams against someone I just hit with Closing Argument, and then dropped the red joker and killed him. But I could've easily have done that with Advance Training and Issue Command

[cannonball]

Also! One question.

Does ANYONE use Hidden Sniper? The damage is awful, the cast is his melee combat, you NEED ram. the Range is good and not needing LoS is good

but is it Worth ALL THAT? I play Lucius All the time, and I've honestly tried it only once or twice. One time with the 13 against someone I just hit with Closing Argument, and then dropped the red joker and killed him. But I could've easily have done that with Advance Training and Issue Command

[1]Hidden Sniper worth it?

Well in terms of resources you'll do better with [1]Issue Command as it's a easier bet to get off although you'll cycle through more cards to get some damage off. The only real reason I see using it is to get a flanking or distant target that's out of range of other minions range strikes. Although as a rule I'm sure Lucius is going to be taking Austringers anyway.

[Sandwich]

Didn't I play you like, two weeks ago with Seamus?

I'm more than willing to play whenever you'd fancy, I don't see why you have that section in there about Seamus.

[BenjaminBullet]

Alright so going to pick up Lucius box soon and it will be my first army. Let me know what you think or what I should change and let it be known that I am not opposed to being cheap, in fact I prefer it if it gets me a W. Concept is pretty much to have a firing line pelt them and then send lady j in to clean up the mess/pull some aggro away from my more squishy guardsmen.

Lady J

Lucius- 10

Guild Guard Captain- 7

Guild Guard x2- 8

Austringer x2- 10

[Jonas Albrecht]

Looks like an interesting way to build a Lady J army.

[cannonball]

If Lady J can smack something down then Inspiring Swordplay will help all those Lucius [1]Issue Command raptor strikes.

Shame Lucius is so Guard and Elite Division centric otherwise I'm sure Lady J would love [0]Advanced Training or [1]Issue Command

[Delirium]

Thanks for this. I just grabbed the Lucius box yesterday, and have been looking for how to use him.

been enjoying the Guild so far (being as they're all I currently have). Good tips in here, will have to try them out.

[daemonkin]

Ordered the Lucius box and should be here tomorrow or the weekend. Just curious to see that not many people are using Ryle. Any reason for this?

Also, maybe I missed it but is the Austringer listed as a 'Guardsman' for hiring purposes for Lucius?

Looking forward to getting some games with him. Without the austringer my 30ss list was going to be:

Lucius

Ryle

Guild Guard captain

3 x Guild Guard

Lawyer

(if I am reading correctly Lucius gets another 4ss to hire if he is the 'Master'?)

D.

[daemonkin]

BTW thanks for the Tactica. Hopefully I will be able to contribute something very soon.

D.

[Wodschow]

(if I am reading correctly Lucius gets another 4ss to hire if he is the 'Master'?)

He does, but you might want to keep a few of those as a cache to help Lucius survive a bit longer (especially as he's a Soulstone User with Slow to Die).

I think Ryle can be a solid addition, but to be honest I see him working better with his brother or Leveticus - but then again I still have doubts of Lucius working efficiently as an independ master at all.

[daemonkin]

@Wodschow: Cheers for the quick response. Any info on Austringer being a guard? Not at home so no access to his stat card. Maybe I'll swap out Ryle for Austringer if he is available or else drop a guard for my Soul Stones.

D.

[Buck Dog]

Yes, Austringers are counted as Guild Guard.

And, I think that is why people don't pick Ryle. Lucius has such great synergy with the Guild Guard that poor old Ryle doesn't get a look in.

[hippieshopper]

He does, but you might want to keep a few of those as a cache to help Lucius survive a bit longer (especially as he's a Soulstone User with Slow to Die).

I think Ryle can be a solid addition, but to be honest I see him working better with his brother or Leveticus - but then again I still have doubts of Lucius working efficiently as an independ master at all.

I think that about most Henchman. People like Von Schill and Ophelia do stand very well on their own and in most cases at our LGS, they are very rarely used as a Henchman.

As for Ryle, I have seen him used with outstanding efficiency with his brother. He's taken a lot of people out all on his own with that nasty gun of his.

[Wodschow]

I think that about most Henchman. People like Von Schill and Ophelia do stand very well on their own and in most cases at our LGS, they are very rarely used as a Henchman.

Well, there's certainly no doubt about Ophelia and Von Schill - they've proven their worth already both as Masters and Henchmen.

The other yet-to-be-released Henchmen - Kaeris, Molly and Collodi - are clearly incapacitated in their model selection (for now anyway) - Where's all the Assets, Horrors and Dolls?

But I certainly expect them to be fully capable after Book3.

Lucius on the other hand is an interesting addition to a Guild force as a Henchman, but I just don't quite feel he's powerful enough to stand on his own as a Master. Even though he's got a wide range of models available to him.

I might of course simply be ignorant - but I still hope there'll be some goodies in Book3 that helps him rise a little more..

[kbdrand]

One thing that I would change. The Lawyer's ability is is called 'Censure' not 'Censor'. Kind of a difference there.

[JayBarlekamp]

The main issue I have with Ryle is the fact that he is never a friendly model. So, he winds up not benefiting from any of the buffs that Lucius (or totems) can give.

It also means you can't use the reinforcement spell on him and he has to walk across the board.

I think Lucius is much better served taking 2 guild guard instead of Ryle. I may try him some day, but with Lucius he winds up just being a giant target for your opponent. One that won't take too much to remove as there is no way to heal him. And he is much easier to hit than Lucius so will likely be the first target.

[Wodschow]

It's not like Ryle's all that slow.. In fact he's one of the fastest Guild models, and certainly THE fastest that Lucius is able to hire (Not counting Issue Command Walks) - Faster than Lucius.

He's also got a great range on his gun..

Even if I could use Reinforcements on Ryle, I doubt I would, the Captain and the Lawyer seems more needy imho.

[Sholto]

A good trick against Rasputina is to take the Lawyer and Prosecute her Ice Gamin. As they are no longer friendly models for the remainder of the encounter, Rasputina cannot use Ice Mirror through them and loses a lot of her range

[daemonkin]

^^ Now that's a nice trick!

D.

[Talos]

I played my first game with Lucius yesterday.

I took

Lucius

3x Guild Guard

Guild Guard Captain

Austringer

Lawyer

It was against Seamus who took

Seamus

Copycat killer

2x bella

2x Punk Zombie

Dead Rider

It was pretty much a slaughter , I think in the end it was 2vp to 6vp. It also marked my 10th game and 10th loss

So anyway I found that I was relying on Lucius to much, he ate up my control hard. All his spells need high cards and you are going to have to cheat most of them. I could have used his spell to try and draw new cards but you really what to spend all his AP on issuing commands.

The Austringer paired with Lucius was great and got Seamus down to 2 wounds before he killed something and healed up.

The guard did not do much, they where getting one shoted by Seamus gun or lured and then sliced by punk zombies.

The Lawyer was useless, I used him a few times to give hard to wound 2 to lucius or a guard but he needs high cards and crows to cast his spells and lucius had already used the high cards.

Against some crews I can see him being great but in this game he felt like a massive waste.

The captain was to slow to do anything and was killed before he could do anything.

I really like Lucius and it was a bit dishearting to lose so badly.

I was thinking of taking him with Lady J and leaving him back with two austringers to deal heavy range damage but that is 20ss right there.

Not really sure how to use him now, he is a massive card hog and pretty much just wants to sit still using issue command.

[Adran]

I took Lucius to a gaming day this saturday, and was very surprised at how well he did as master.

We had three lists, 20, 30 and 40 so I took the following

20 points

Lucuis

Ryle

Guard Captain

Guard

Drill Sergeant

+Guard and Austringer for the 30 point game

+Guard and Lawyer for the 40 point game.

I was very surprised at how well he handled as a master.

Some things I learnt.

Linking the Drill sergent to Ryle gives a reasonable control over his free push. It does mean you need to plan it a turn in advance, but early on, thats not really a problem.

His extra training doesn't target, so it does also give Ryle + melee flips.

I liked the Drill sergeant as a totem. His link giving a free follow around Ryle was very useful. His + melee flips really helps when hitting Zoriada. I didn’t ever have a chance to form a guard gun line to make the most of shooting range, but it looks like a lot of potential. And the chance to protect against slow and paralysed can be useful against certain crews.

Re-enforcements can be amazing. I am very tempted to leave models in my deployment zone in turn one to get them where I want the fight to be in turn 2. Bringing the Captain up to were I want to start him on turn two before he activates can be very dangerous. I managed to get him almost into Leveticus' deployment making killing the hollow waifs very easy turn two after Leveticus was also killed. The Turn one re-enforcement brought the Austringer up close enough to threaten most of the board as well.

The Guard Captain is very durable. Hard to wound and Armour takes a lot to get through. He can dish out a lot of hurt in melee as well, although his shooting is quite weak. Whilst he is slow, Menace can speed him up, and he has a good casting value for it.

I didn't get much out of the lawyer in the game I used him for, although it was treasure hunt, so I could hand the treasure to him and quickly return the other model to the fight (re-enforcements again, which also got an unactivated guardsman standing on the treasure in turn one) . If the fight is close enough, casting Hard to wound 2 is never a bad thing. I have a feeling that in several games he won't pull his weight, but then you will get an amazing turn when he does something wonderful which is well worth his points. He will probably only make it into high point games, but I keep thinking there is something there that will work.

Higher Authority leads to making Lucius very hard to kill. When used with his combat trigger, he can place himself in the middle of some very nasty people in safety. I've charged Chompybits getting the trigger off, and he just can't do very much on the next turn.

Needing 7s and 8s to cast was a little intensive, but should work without cheating about half the time.

I had a great turn when he survived two rounds of shooting from Seamus, followed by a charge into him and a guard captain, and then was able to issue commands three times to the captain to get Seamus killed before he had to make a terror test (Thanks to a lucky red joker on the fourth card of a damage flip but even so, it’s a likely 6-9 points of damage or eating up plenty of Seamus soulstone.)

Guards and Austringers are good models for their points. The Armour on the guard, 6 cb on the sword in close combat, and halt trigger on the gun mean they can do well at both range and close combat, and can take a couple of hits from most people

Cordon can also help you hold a line.

Things I didn’t use/didn’t like

Hidden sniper is too hard to cast for not enough damage. But it has been pointed out to me it’s not a ranged spell, so it will hit who you want in a combat. It is also magical damage so on occasion it has a use.

I never activated re-activate although in hindsight there were some times I should have.

Again its nice to have the option, but its one I will rarely use.

I felt I wanted something harder in combat, like an executioner or a peacekeeper, but I guess the Captain can dish out quite a bit of melee damage, as can Ryle, and I have a reasonable shooting threat, again typically with good damage. There is a surprising amount of control for what looks like a shooting crew, and several nice movement tricks.

Lucius doesn’t do the damage himself, but he does make the most of his minions abilities.

I haven’t used him as anything other than a leader yet, so can’t compare. I wish he had a higher henchman reserve, as limiting my cache to 4 was worrying, but I help most of it for slow to die healing flips.

Of course getting black jokers on these flips is bad, so I wouldn’t recommend relying on it unless you already know where the black joker is.

The advice on this thread was very useful going into it so thank you

Phil

[Sun Tzu]

Thx a lot for the report!! Learned some nice things :-)

Does Ryle really get the + melee Flip from the linked Drill Sergeant??

"Can´t Connect" says that he is never considered a friendly model for Talents and Spells and the "Extra Training" works on a friendly non-master model!! So, in my opinion, it doesn`t work with Ryle?!?!?