Tactica: Lucius

[gunpowder saint]

[[.THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS.]]

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:lucius

As A Master

Overview: Lucius is the kind of man that doesn't like to get his hands dirty. He'd watch from behind the forward troops, barking orders. Lucius has a critical skill called "Receive Orders" which causes a friendly Guardsman, or Elite Division unit to either Walk or Attack. He also has his lovely Sword-Cane but I feel personally if you're Forced to use it offensively; you're probably doing it wrong.

the main problem with Lucius is his inability to use his assets and skills to take out Masters and Henchman. Forcing you to resort to using you're simple Sword-Cane, which isn't bad, but by forcing Lucius to wast actions attacking you instead of having him use his assets does limit his combat effectiveness drastically.

Strengths: Combat, pure and simple. He's a battle tactician. Passing orders to units who have already activated, making it seem like no one is safe to move near. The ability to Re-Flip the strategy for free. Take shots at people as long other models in your army have LoS, continually attacking and pinging models down even in the places they think they're safe.

You can order a powerhouse to attack a minion, or make him double move, that way when he activates he can take as many attacks as he pleases. It's all about setting up and planning things out. Like a true leader. Secret Service gives Lucius additional +2 to Df for having a guardsman or Elite Division near you, and with another (0) action you can create even more of a buffer zone by giving all units with 8" +2Cb.

Hide and Seek is another of his more useful skills, allowing him to leave behind a man in his deployment zone and take the rest of his army with him, and when the time is needed take the unit and put it in the fray. Normally you would save this for the slower models that wouldn't be able to make it into the fray as fast as your guild guard and captains.

But just because he has a lot of combat specialties doesn't mean that's all he's about. Mobility is another thing, if you have reconnoiter then you can easily keep you're army moving around with the Receive Orders getting into the best positions to avoid the army. And if you take Lawyers along side it gives your enemy a very difficult time maneuvering around you.

When focusing on less combat and more mobility it also gives Lucius the great opportunity to be the Center of Attention. By forcing all strikes and casts against him to be at a it allows him to stand in front of Lilith and take her Greatsword swings without a care at all. No cheating fate, and soulstones being your only way to boost the combat making him an excellent tar pit, allowing your army to move around behind him.

Weakness: With all his commanding and ordering people around he never really gets to move around himself, and when he does it causes him to order people around less, lowering his armies mobility and combat power. Some of his Zero Actions are really difficult to choose between sometimes. Forcing him to decide between +2Cb or moving some from your deployment zone into combat. With the relatively low ranged Cb on a lot of our units it's sort of a hard choice.

Also for all the shouting and barking orders he does, they're all spells and require some decently high cards. The orders cost you an 8 or higher of any suit from your hand or fate deck so relying on it all the time can be costly and in the long run not as useful, leaving you barking orders to an motionless soldier. Also if you're facing your Guild mate Sonnia Criid and she has those witchling stalkers disrupt your magic then you're a little bit more then shafted on the barking orders thing.

The +2Cb is another slight downfall, it's not a spell but the bonus is only until the end of Lucius' activation so barking orders is the best option after you activate that. Sometimes yes, Lucius does need to whip out his Cane and lay the beat down on some minions or even a master sometimes but it leaves his army lacking and makes me feel like they're not pulling their weight.

Scale of the game is Very important to the usefulness of Lucius, I've come to notice that in Larger Scale Games. 30+SS there becomes a very heavy weight put on the henchman's shoulder's and it feels as though pulling the entire army himself makes those who don't activate under his command seem lazy and like their not pulling their own weight. this is only a theory though I'm going to edit and test this section later.

The Boys [[.Guardsman and Elite Division.]]

Austringers! I'm sure if you've seen that thread on the guild page you know just how awesome these guys are. Now with the Drill Sergeant makes their Cb 7 :rams get at Rg 18 and then they can deliver orders? If you use Lucius' (0) action to give them +2Cb, they swing at NINE combat at 12 inches of range and have to the attack. If you want to be a bad man with Lucius just have him stand back with the Austringers and use Receive Orders on them over and over again. Along with the Drill Sergeant. It'll be Artillery the likes they will not be able to ignore for very long.

Guild Guard! The main stay of your army, they can block off areas with cordon and with Cb 4 and on damage the pistol is a very dangerous tool, especially when combined with our favorite Totem the Drill Sergeant. The best part about these guys, if someone steps up on them and goes Toe-to-Toe, you can activate Lucius and give their Sword a Cb 8 and just order them around to go on a stab and slash spree. Also Armor 1? Excellent. All-round good guys to take along with Any Lucius List.

R. Hoffman! The bad ass of the Bad Asses! though he is not without his flaws, his willpower is terrible even after he kills something. He's never considered friendly and you need a Ram to get fully automatic to go off but with Every severe damage inflicted you keep flipping more damage. The biggest problem with him as a model is the fact that he's never considered friendly, so Lucius and his barking orders and buffs don't work on him, and I mean, not at all. Which is a Huge Loss but he's good for soaking up some focus while you maneuver your forces at the least.

Drill Sergeant! I belive I've mentioned this single model more then any other model in this tactica, only because he's a bad ass. He gives on attacks with ranged for everyone with 4" and that's awesome, he has link which means he follows you around, which is even more useful when you start commanding people to walk. If they get into Melee and start duking it out, The Drill Sergeant gives a bonus +2Cb for Extra Training. Then, my personal favorite aspect, he only costs 3 soulstones. So what I do is in dire time of need; He's the first to go. (0) action, sacrifice guardsman and Lucius gets reactivate; I haven't mentioned that very often in the tactica but it's only because you should only really do this once, and it should be the perfect plan. The moment you kill off your drill sergeant should be the turn you turn the battle on it's head, taking out a Massive chunk of the opposition or getting into the perfect position. The Drill Sergeant in my opinion is an absolute Must for Lucius.

Lawyers! Fun, but I don't believe they are actually meant to be played in the game. I'm honestly starting to believe that they are a Pun and a Joke for Wyrd. Which is fine. BUT! they do have their uses, oh do they have uses! All of their spells are useful but with the crippling slow movement you'll need to work to get the gears flowing. They might be able to get one spell off a turn. But if you keep them in the deployment zone and then first second and third turn use "Reinforcements" to sling shot them to lucius it will make up for it. But Censor is currently my fav. with them, you can stop the casters, the fighters, the runners, the bakers, the candle stick makers. You can shaft almost anyone. Zombie Punks messing up your good looks? Censor them so the young children can't see the awful Katana Violence! Terror Tots sprinting around and taking all your Treasures? Censor those legs! they look vulgar anyway! Also Hard to Wound 2 will make your front line very strong and durable, Armor and Hard to Wound 2 is very good for taking the hits.

Guild Guard Captains! A 10" range Menace that is actually cast with high Ca.. Yes please very much! Denying the enemy movement is always good, and very critical for enemies whose only attacks are in melee, Nephilim for instance. Also since it's only a one action, Menace someone else, cause as much havoc as you can, and if no one else is in range, just shoot him with your Mauser, if your lucky you can deal quiet a bit of damage. Also Hard to Wound 1, Armor 1, and 10 wounds means he'll be causing stress and havoc for a while before they finally put him down. Also at Combat 6 with his Pistol means that the Advanced Training brings it up to a combat 8, cheat with a Severe; at combat 8 shouldn't be too difficult, but after a severe you just keep flipping.

The Army List!

this is just a beginner list for those who want to get acquainted with the aspects of Lucius. I believe it to be a solid well versed list. It's a 25SS list so it's for people who want him, "Out of the Box" I guess if you want to phrase it like that.

Lucius, Governor's Secretary

Drill Sergeant (-3)

Guild Guard x3 (-12)

Guild Austringer (-5)

Guild Guard Captain/Lawyer (-7)

Soulstone Cache: 2SS

I would suggest the Captain over the Lawyer seeing as the lawyer is a little fiddly and hard to work with unless you're well versed in Malifaux, or just fee ballsy lol. Those of you who want to take R. Hoffman for your first Lucius game I would suggest against it. Unless you love R. Hoffman or just feel like being super ballsy and walking to the field with a single soulstone to your name.

As A Henchman

Overview: definitely worth it, it's hard to say where Lucius shines the most though, he seems equally capable leading as he does being the Second in Command. With masters who are self sufficient it can be near devastating. Lady J, Perdita, and Sonnia are all Masters that could so easily take Lucius and cause major Havoc

one problem though is if you take someone like Perdita you'll want some family members, and Lucius costing 10 points can seriously put a hamper on who you can and can not bring to the table. Also because your fighting over the build of your army that means someone has to get the short end of the stick troop wise.

I will state this though, in a 25SS game, Lucius can easily take command and still pose a Massive threat to the enemy. In a 35SS game it's very hard to Lucius to do it himself, but if taken as a master the stress of command is relieved and allows him far more mobility. [[.I'm going to test this with a few more games.]]

Strengths: Definitely an Advantage to taking Lucius as a Second in Command is the fact that; our loyal friend and companion, The Drill Sergeant can now Link to Lucius, which sounds pretty stale as he could've done that weather he was leading them or not, but NOW Lucius get's a on the attack because he's not a Master, he's acting second in command now. Also because we link him to Lucius that means the shooting range is alot easier to angle now, Keep one or two Guild Guard near you at all times for the Secret Service ability, shooting range, and Issue Command

Another thing that makes him shine as Second in Command is that with a Master, is that All Guild Masters, with the exception of Hoffman [[.sorta.]] are all pretty well self-sufficient. Sonnia doesn't NEED witchling stalkers, she just works well with them, nothing stops you from Confiscating Lore and Blasting People away with Flame Burst. All masters can work almost entirely by themselves, meaning that there's no fighting for the spotlight, which I thought was going to be the biggest problem. But we'll talk about all the fun you can have with masters later.

Also As Second in Command, you now have the ability to focus Entirely! on the Objective at hand, With a Master to your left it frees you up to maneuver your troops and leave a few for your Master should she/he need backup. If Lucius was leading the crew himself he would have to act as the "Heavy hitter" the "soulstone user" the one who can take things no one else could, but with Lady J on the field, you don't need to waste time with big things, and can focus entirely on the mission. Also don't be afraid to sacrifice your master to the enemy, most players will get tunnel vision on your master should she be in the open. Use it to your advantage.

Reinforcements! Now we're talking! Lady J or Sonnia not activate yet? Double walk and Slingshot them straight to the middle of the field, nothing scares the crap out of the enemy more then a Lady J in melee range with their models, one the first turn. By the way, Lady J now activates and commences to rape their face. Or Sonnia, normally having the crippling 4 inch walk can now be flung almost 14" away from the deployment zone first turn, nay first activation. Causing Henchman and Master to fight side by side. There's just something beautiful about that lol

Weaknesses: this one is going to hurt... Lucius costs TEN soulstones, you might know this already but that's bad! 35 point game, which I honestly would suggest Not taking Lucius in Anything less, but 10 out of 35? That's damn near 30% of your whole army, not to mention if you take Lucius you'll have to take At the Least an Austringer, or any guardsman to be effective in the slightest. His point cost and the fact that he Needs his boys to be hired as well makes running him Very limiting, if they know your taking Lucius they know pretty much half of your army from the get go.

Also, because your paying for your master, that means that unless you go entirely Guardsman or Elite Division, which at that point you might as well just drop the master and take 14 extra points of models. But unless you go All Guard, your resources for Lucius will be very limited. Meaning if your Guild Guard die, and there aren't any more Guardsman or Elite Division members left on the field... your kind of in the stinker. Lucius does have his cane though and Hidden Sniper can be casted on himself but overall loosing the two or three Guardsman that you bring with Lucius means he'll be near useless.

Cards! You Don't Have Enough of Them!! It causes me so much stress that I end up fighting myself over who gets that high Ram, or the High Mask. It just feels like you don't have enough cards between your Henchman and your Master, and remember how in the As a Master part of this, I stated that an 8 of anything is still a high cost to pay for barking orders? Well it gets even Worse here. There's nothing more stressful then having no hand and throwing fate to the wind hoping for an 8 or anything. 46% for the card counters, which ya know? Really sucks! that's every Other order without a hand. If you end up spoiling your master and leaving Lucius with the low cards then he'll usually just end up yelling at lazy Guardsman who don't think he's all that cool anymore...

THE BOSS [[.Masters.]]

Lady Justice! I thoroughly have to suggest using Lady J as your master if you want to take Lucius as a Henchman the synergy between what they can do for their troops is ridiculous! I'm close to believing that they were made for each other. Lady J kills something, which it's Lady J, it's not hard, and then causing Inspiring Swordplay, causing all within 10" and LoS to receive +2 Cb, now if we activate Lucius and he does some Advance Training, well that's +4 Cb all together, and not can be used with the Guild Guard's Pistol, or god forbid you use it with the Austringer, who would be swinging at Combat Eleven! Also because it's Lady J there's not alot of card struggle.

Sonnia Criid! this is another good couple. with the only downfall being that Sonnia is Really Really Greedy, she wants the high cards and the soulstones, leaving you to deal with the table scraps, which is fine! Those who play against or with Sonnia know that when she gets what she wants there's only Fire and Pain that commonly follow. Sonnia being a very self-sufficient master she can do her own thing while Lucius is in the back getting things done with his boys. Also that Advanced Counterspell will save you, don't be afraid to abuse it. This is the part where you can help your master help you. Guild Intelligence will allow you to draw a card and discard one, with this ability you can cycle through to get low tomes for her counterspell, or high cards for anything Sonnia might want to set on fire.

Perdita! So obey to get the free charge with Guild Guard, and then start swinging the sword at Cb 8 with Lucius and Advanced Training is just flat Awesome. Perdita create that big bubble of protection for Lucius and his boys with Quickdraw. Over all the synergy is definitely there, further games will provide more information.

C. Hoffman! [[.soon.]]

The Toys! [[.units worth getting that you normally can't.]]

The Watcher! this is just an overall an Amazing unit, regardless of the situation. Looking at the top one or two cards of your deck, rearranging them, putting them on the bottom. Also it's not insignificant so it can light bombs or defuse bombs, or destroy evidence. Even stop an opponent from getting Hold Out since you have a 14" double walk. Immune to Influence, and the best part? Three Soulstones! I'm not saying Always take one, I'm just saying, they're Very useful.

Guild Hounds! if only they were Guardsman, or had some rule to allow you to take them as a Master. Still on the Trail gives you an 18" triple walk. Another thing, people dis them because that they're five points and if you kill one of them, which isn't hard, then the other becomes essentially useless. Now if you spend 8 or 10 points to bring 3 or 4 to the field, then they'll have to kill three or two, that way they'll remain significant and still retain all their triggers. It's the Pack Mentality, this really doesn't mean anything the Lucius except less stuff to yell at but meh.

Papa Loco and the Ortega's! Slingshot him! Double walk and use reinforcements, then he'll activate and run full till to the enemy. Papa is really the only Ortega I would consider taking along with Lucius as the rest of the Ortega's seem very selfish with nothing they can really bring to the field other then the normal Ortega stuff. Which I'll point out is definitely Not! a bad thing.

The Army!

okay I'm Not an expert here, this is just another personal opinion on what you should do if you want to start out working with Lucius hand in hand with a Master. Personally I'd go with Lady J, or Sonnia. The list is the same weather you fill the slot with Lady J or Sonnia but it's good for those who want to see what Lucius can do when working with a Master. Like I said, don't take Lucius unless your playing a 35+SS game, he just costs Way too much on his own.

Lady Justice/Sonnia Criid (+4)

Lucius, Governor's Secretary (-10)

Drill Sergeant (-3)

Guild Guard x2 (-8)

Guild Guard Captain/Lawyer (-7)

Guild Austringer (-5)

Total Points: 33 points

Soulstone Cache: 6SS

General Strategies

Strategies: We all know that this is by far the most unique thing about our good pal Lucius, his ability to Re-Flip Strategies Flips, which means I'm going to list out, not all, but the ones you want, and the ones you definitely want to re-flip.

Line in the Sand:Offense, or Defense, Shared or Individual, this is something you want. Three Free Walks, and then on more desperate turns 6 walks, that's some mobility, and you only need a (1) action to activate them, even if you share it, or if your on defense, you can issue command your Guild Guard to Base to Base with the Dynamite and then they activate and defuse it, definitely where Lucius shines. [[Also don't forget the Lawyers for Defense, leaving units alone by a stick of dynamite is a good way to get jumped by something bigger then you, so Hard to Wound 2 would be helpful]]

Contain Power: this one is worth a re-flip if you don't feel very confident, or if your running Lucius as your master and not the Henchman. If it's just Lucius it's worth re-flipping. As lucius you're giving your turns away and making people attack for you, sure you have a Higher Combat now but they burn soulstones, you don't. Not when you give your attacks away, and with a Maximum cache of 4 by yourself it's not a pretty picture when Lucius is forced to step up on a master, even with back up. If you have Lady J, or Hoffman with you then it's worth a shot, but even as second in command there are better Strategies. If your running out of Soulstones for the reflip keep this one, it's not the best, but there are far worse out there.

Deliver Message: if your opponent has never gone against Lucius before and you flip Deliver a Message, it's going to be pretty bad for him. On the second turn with Deliver a Message and the Steal Relic Scheme Announced I racked up 6 VP with Lucius and my Lawyer alone. The Lawyers with a WP of 7 can be slung 14" from the deployment zone on the first turn then walk another 6" meaning the opponent's master, unless it's Zorida that hooker! is going to need to either hold a high card and burn a Soulstone or accept the fact that you just earned 4 VP on the second turn. This is another place where Lucius shines with Red Tape, Highest Authority, and Issue Command and bring maybe two lawyers just in case one goes down, you can cause a lot of havoc. VERY IMPORTANT: After you deliver the message that's it, 4VP so don't be afraid to throw people at the master to get that message sent. That's why your army is here.

Escape and Survive:Honestly... just re-flip, even if my opponent flips this I'll let him re-flip for free. So pretty much if you're so dead set on play this strategy put everyone as far back in your deployment zone as you can and do nothing... [[i'm very bias to this one because me and a friend flipped it on the Shared and we literally did nothing the whole game... I understand the premise of it, try and stop your opponent from doing his strategy at the same time making sure nobody dies on in crew, it's cool it's just I'm bias.]]

Slaughter: this one is interesting, any crew can do this [[with the exception of Maybe Pandora... maybe lol]] over all it's up to you if you want to re-flip it, Lucius is more then capable of downing other minions but it would be a situational re-flip, if your going against a Master/Henchman with lots of Armor or Hard to Wound it might be worth the re-flip but over all it's a situational strategy and not always worth the re-flip, in fact, sometimes it's worth a re-flip to try and GET this strategy lol

Supply Wagon: this one is worth a Re-flip to GET it's very simple, don't over extend and sacrifice all your units to make sure that nothing happens to the Supply Wagon, normally in a situation like this I keep both my Schemes secret and they should be something you can get away with doing without the opponent knowing and something that all of your units dying should hinder. [[thank god bullet bending only ignores cover lol]] If your going against ranged stand in front of it, if it's a Neverborn Melee only crew Menace and Censure their walk and surround it. It's pretty simple, but don't underestimate Lilith and Big Daddy [[Mature Nephilim]] there are also some other masters that just standing in their way isn't always the best idea. Adapt, Improvise, and Overcome as necessary.

Distract: Don't be fooled by the almost Idealistic ideas of Cordon-ing an impassable line straight across the board, This Will not Stop some masters, Lilith will be carried across the Cordon by Big Papa, Perdita will simply shoot the Guild Guard to death and then walk by, Zorida can also fly, Marcus will cause them to fall back, Seamus will shoot them. There's alot of ways that the enemy master will get through, normally what it comes down to is a different form of Assassinate for me and my common opponents. Worth a Re-Flip.

The Ones Not Mentioned: all the others not mentioned are things like Recon, Destroy Evidence, and a few others not to mention. These are okay, there pretty easy for a mobile army which if you run lucius have more mobility then most, which is fine, don't over extend yourself though, it's always a good way to get yourself jumped. Over all everything else is pretty okay, if you want to re-flip to GET one of the above that's fine. All statements above are applied for both Henchman Lucius and Master Lucius unless specified.

Schemes: these are some of the schemes he excels at, some of my most commonly called when running Lucius.

Bodyguard: this is something I love to keep hidden, my opponents usually go for my guild guard and captains before Lucius because of their ranged ability at Combat 6, and 8, and with Austringers Combat 9. It's all too common for your opponent to try and stop your models from shooting them. Unless you become painfully predictable with this scheme they probably won't spend too much time trying to kill Lucius, and Even If They Do, you have Secret Service which won't save you, but it helps, and if you survive the initial attack your Guild Guard will swing that sword at Combat 8 with Critical Strike and that will hurt. Also don't be afraid to swing the Governor's Authority around, nothing is more frustrating for the enemy then bonking them on the head with a cane and stopping all assassination attempts.

Hold Out: I know what your going to say, "hold out!? everyone calls hold out!" well this is different. Lucius is a MASTER at holding the front line. If someone tries to run by him and his Firing Line of Guild Guard and Austringers they'll be pin cushioned before they can say "lord chompy bits" Also you should announce this one.

Steal Relic: Lawyers are your friends here, don't throw them away unless you have Deliver a Message. Thought a WP of 7 makes it very difficult for your enemy to keep their important gifts lol

Round Up: I know, it sounds hard, it's the old skool version of Slaughter and that was hard, but now you have a focus. As Lucius you shouldn't be bugging yourself with Enemy Masters anyway so that only leaves the little guys, it's also a situational scheme though. If you get bored of the same old schemes give this one a try it's pretty fun.

Your Enemy ((The Masters you Will Face))

Your Fellow Guild Mates:You should know! lol you hired them! Anything they bring to the table you can bring as well, so honestly there's nothing I can put here that would surprise you. If you take Lucius as a Henchman you can hire anything your opponent hires so it's all good.

Lady Justice: Don't let her touch you! Your Nine whole wounds will go down in a flash, but like I said most enemies will go for your units first. Your Guild Guard have armor though, and your Fatty Captain is hard to wound AND Armor so try and keep your front line Well Fortified against her almost Tsunami like wave of pain.

Sonnia Criid: It's hard to say a counter strategy for her honestly, she's a grab bag. A little of everything, in this case I would just ignore her honestly, try and give as many things on your side hard to wound 2 as you can. You DO NOT want that Flame Burst to get Severe, if you can buckle down and try and swallow as little damage as you can from her flame bursts then you might be able to punch through her army.

Perdita Ortega and C. Hoffman: more to come later

The Undead Menace: more to come later

McMourning [[aka The Good Doctor]]: more to come later

Nicodem, The Undertaker: He'll tend to stay behind enemy lines, making it harder for you to actually hit the enemy on anyone's turn but Lucius. Bolster Undead is like Advanced Training but just overall better, but with advanced training you can meet the bonus. Watch out for Decay too, he'll try and catch your boys in the blast.

Kirai: ugh... later...

Seamus, the Whore House: our Seamus player is lazy as hell and won't face Lucius anymore :[

The Mafia [[aka The Arcanists]]: more to come

Rasputina: more to come

Ramos: Armor! Now both armies have it and it makes killing anything VERY annoying. Also don't be fooled by the Defense of 2 on Ramos, he's a bastered to kill with Armor 2 you'll be doing 3, maybe 2 damage on Severe! and 1 on everything else. Not to mention the Electrical Fire ignores Armor which means it's two damage, always, Hard to Wound and Armor will not save you. The good news is his damage isn't so great, just put up a good wall try and cover your back and you can last the long run.... hopefully...

Marcus, the Beast Master: more to come

Colette DeBios: more to come later

The Neverborn Threat: no information on any of them except what I learn from paper, and we all know plans on paper never work that well...

The Outcasts: same as the nevreborn, only experiance is the type on paper...

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This is the end of my Tactica. if you think you know better strategy's, have better ways to put things, or if you think I have posted something wrong or if something has been Eratta'ed or anything like that feel free to post up saying so.

this is an OPEN Tatica it's for the community and should be BY the community.

Edited October 12, 2010 by gunpowder saint

[Wodschow]

Nice to see initiative on some new tactica. I'm curious as to how to make Lucius work as he (to me) seems by far the weakest of the Henchmen and is the most expensive one on top (when joining a crew of course).

I haven't played him so can't add much to the strategy or anything, but I believe there's a few things that you've gotten wrong.

Ryle.. He is not friendly, so you can't use any of Lucius' spells and buffs on him (which is -huge- loss). Also I don't get why you seem to think he ignores Pandoras The Box Opens ability? I can't find that.

By being outrageously lucky though I believe he can do 20 Dg, which is useless, but amusing

Also.. 'Secret Service' only adds to Lucius own Df.

Finally I don't think it's wise to let him stand up to Lilith, the moment she makes a Focused Strike your only defense is gone.

My thoughts on some of the models (mind you again that I haven't played him):

Lawyers seem to be awesome.. Cross Examination and Defense being their strongest spells as I see it.

Cheat in a high crow for the cross and your opponent will likely be unable to do anything about it. Hell.. even a medium crow would cause big trouble for most models.

He's slow though and somewhat weak, I think he's one of the best targets of Lucius' Reinforcements spells.

Captain: A 10" range Menace that is actually cast with high Ca.. Yes please very much! Denying the enemy movement is always good, and very critical for enemies whose only attacks are in melee, Nephilim for instance.

[goblyn13]

You do realize one important thing for Henchman taken as Masters, (MRP:35),

The maximum size of a Henchmen-led Soulstone Pool is equal to the Henchman’s Reserve.

So for Lucius his Max Soulstone Pool, is 4.

[gunpowder saint]

I agree on alot of parts and I forgot about the Flaw in R. Hoffman's design which sucks baskets of not-cool. But I would gladly put him infront of lilith, that way a) Lilith is focused on him, not the rest of the army should have a Monuever Strategy. and if she makes one focused strike than you get to defend yourself with Df 6 hopefully against Cb 7, both having soulstones. I see no problem with this in my book but that's just me.

Trust me wouldn't be the first mistake I've made standing against lilith

Edit! Thank you rules Marshal, lol see that's why this is a [[.work in progress.]] lol I fell in love with Lucius after my first game and I want to make sure that people who like him have some resources to go to when they want to get good lol

[Talos]

Thank you for this. Hope more is added to it . Lucius and the lawyer where the units that really stood out of me from book two. I love the guild and these models look like they will be great fun to play. The artwork also looks great so hopeful the models will be awesome.

I am looking forward to playing him. I like the thought of using Ryle as he seems like he could do alot of damage but not being able to target him for friendly spells is a bit annoying. I just feel the crew needs a heavy hitter or a threat to take pressure of Lucius or your lawyer.

Anybody know any Good poxys for Lucius and the Lawyer.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Talos

[gunpowder saint]

UPDATE: Lawyers, Austringers, and Guild Guard Captain. Also added a Beginner 25 Soulstone List that people might want to give a try should they feel savy and want to proxy the good man himself.

[gunpowder saint]

UPDATE! I have posted the Tatica for using Lucius as a Henchman! I also have made bold all titles and the like hopefully this makes the Tatica easier to read and allows for more readers and more help.

I have also updated the Weakness section for the "As a Master" section.

Edited September 17, 2010 by gunpowder saint

[gunpowder saint]

no update, just posing a question...

what is your opinion on the Tatica?

what can I change? what should I change? what should I add? take away? Any sections you want to see? General Tatics will be filled in come next week guarenteed. It'll be filled with neat tricks and kick ass meanuevers. Anything I learned through my Learning Experiances.

Also! I see other Tatica's have this, so do think I should add something about how Lucius works againsts other factions and masters? Also the part about Lucius as a Henchman should I take that out?

[Talos]

Keep up the great work. Your tactica is great I would not change anything. Would love to see how he fares against other masters and with certain schemes.

I will hopeful be able to add my findings to it soon. I tried guild guard for the first time in a game last week against Kiria. The guard worked great was able to stop a spirits from charging and moving,which helped pin them down for my other units. Looking forward to trying them in larger numbers and being able to boost them. The drill sarge really looks like a no brainer as the other guild totems I find pretty weak.

Still trying to find a good proxy for lucius and guard captain. Already made one for the lawyer http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14212&page=2 .

[hippieshopper]

I agree with Talos, maybe make it a mission of yours to challenge every master you know of and post a general pros vs. cons list for each one. Just give general ideas of what you've noticed and what you can do against them.

It certainly won't be written in stone as everyone plays their master's differently but it'll be a good start.

[MoosePandy212]

you should read the seamus tactica in the undead forum and do yours like that one it was really helpful and everyone liked it. i dont have book two but lucius's model look fracking cool as hell i really like him but he seems kind of crap with out other guys to make him useful and that r hoffman seems super unfair if he can keep shooting over and over again i do not like that at all it seems like you would take him if you suck lol but then maybe you take lucius because hes not so good so you have a realy good guy and a really bad guy and then its fair lol i looked at this tactica because i couldnt find no one named lucius in my book and then it turns out hes book two and i go "doh!" lol now i want to look at his stats so i might buy the other book because the people that play here are really a lot of them and so maybe i can use r hoffman and kill them all right away! lol im kidding im going to play seamus and print out the tactica and use it to kill everybody all the time im going to play tomorrow so im excited please make more of this so i can learn more about lucius so i can mabye branch out to the guild?

[gunpowder saint]

actually I did it wrong, I did it very wrong. A Tatica is in fact a compilation of tactics and strategies, but it's supposed to be created by the community. Have you taken a look at the Neverborn Tatica's? they're almost 9 maybe 12 pages long full of examples of great gameplay stories of victories, bitter defeats. What to do, what not to do, and it's made BY THE NEVERBORN COMMUNITY. Not one person who feels as though they have such a good grasp on the Lucius Master and his friends, and enemies that they feel as though they should attempt to educate the masses.

this is a Guide, NOT a Tatica... I am apologizing to the community right now. I was arrogant, and when this guide fades from existence or memory and time has allowed Lucius players to emerge I might create it again, or possibly wait for someone to create one. Then I will put forth my wisdom but in small bits... ya dig it?

[Sandwich]

For one, no, he shouldn't mimick me.

I've played against him as Lucius and what he states is very effective, the things stated in this Tactica are entirely correct in their functionality and use.

And two, There is still much to build upon.

This is very much a Tactica, as much as mine is.

You have laid the groundwork for something to be built upon, and if anything, should act as incentive for others to compile their strategies and ideas onto this post.

The length of this document is perfect currently, and solely needs community imput to be of any further extent in viability on the field.

[MoosePandy212]

well but all the other tacticas that i read that used you were really good and i liked them and so did everyone else. i dont think a tactica is a community thing i think it takes someone who really knows what their doing with the master to make it up for everyone else because if it took the community everyone would be argueing and newbies like me would be super confused and go "wait who is right here should i do that maybe not i dont know well he say this but he said that but he said that doesnt work" lol and so if you have one person do all the hard work and then all the people go and use that and it works really well then it works and theres no need for the community to muk things up!

[Sandwich]

No one person is going to know everything about one Master. I'm sure there are a thousand things and then some I've missed about Seamus that someone else has come up with that simply has yet to post anything. The fact of the matter is, there is little community information on Seamus because he is not a particularly favored master.

I'm going to guess that most people reference my Tactica to find weaknesses in his crew, or in himself.

While yes, this community does tend to dispute every single thing that is presented before them, it's not at all a bad thing. It will force you to look at both sides of the coin and quite possibly build your own assumption and idea as to how you would like to approach a situation.

[hippieshopper]

You may not like GPS' format but the information is there and it is useful.

As for your concern, the tactica is made by someone who does know that master well, they do not need to know it perfectly because that is where the community comes in. If you are having doubts about what is correct, you should just read the additions to the tactica because if someone said something that applies to that Master, chances are very high that the author has read over it and decided if it should be put into said tactica.

I guess the author is the filter. He builds the basic foundation and everyone helps him make it a complete collection of ideas.

[Talos]

Right I am getting ready for the release of Lucius' box set in december. The largest we play at my gaming club is 35ss just for time reasons.

I really love lucius but I do have a few concerns about him.

I would like to take him as a master so I can get a large amount of guild guard and other guardsmen my only fear is if I lose him I lose alot of the power in my list.

So I was thinking of taking him with Lady J as she does not seem to need that many high cards but then I fear I cant take enough guild guardsman units to make lucius worth it.

I was looking at this for 35ss list.

Lady J-Cache 4

Drill sarge- 3ss

Lucius - 10ss

Guild Captain- 7ss

Austringer- 5ss

2x Guild Guard- 8ss

Total 33ss Cache- 6ss

Or I could go with just Lucius

Lucius- cache 4

Drill sarge-3

Guild Captain-7

Lawyer- 7

Austringer-5

3x Guild Guard-12

Total 34 Cache 4

I could also change a Guild guard for another Austringer.Or change the lawyer for another guild guard and a Watcher (only problem no watcher model). Which do you recommend.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Talos

[cannonball]

With this guy being your Master I think he'll have a fairly limited play style until the next book comes out. All his minions look rather damage based vs. popping cool tricks [apart from using a Lawyer]. Although using an Austringers Distract when you see them flip a Black Joker could be fun.

[edit] And knowing when a Black Joker is going to pop will be a great thing when you have cool combo's that can bring about big damage. For example [1] Cross Examination for a near guaranteed failed Morale Duel. Also low duel totals when their facing off against Ryle's Gatling Gun is always good. Ala a greater chance of him getting either a straight Flip or positive Flip so you can cheat in that Fully Automatic trigger.

[cannonball]

Oops, Ryle isn't a friendly model! Replace the above with a Captains Mauser 9 for a max of 9 damage instead. Still not too shabby.

[cannonball]

Cut and paste from another forum and what I'd do after reading this thread.

OK a 30SS list I'd take with him would be.

Lucius

Drill Sergeant

Austringer

Austringer

Guild Guard Captain

Guild Gurad

Guild Guard

Guild Guard

2SS in the pool

Cordon with the Guards to help slow the enemy as they flank the crew as you walk up.

Menace from the Captain [+3Ca and increase the spells range to 10"] further helps slow them down as he stares you down.

The Austringers bomb the enemy as you tar pit them. Also [0]Deliver Orders allows you to do this.

Activate Drill Sergeant first and pop [2] Shooting Range.

Then activate #1 Austringer. Bomb twice with a +ve flip with Raptor Strikes. After that pop [0]Deliver Orders and activate #2 Austringer. Bomb twice again and then [0]Deliver Orders on Lucius. Activate Lucius and pop [0]Active Training. Cast [1]Issue Command three times and bomb for three more Raptor Strikes and all with an extra +2Cb.

Flip for Escape or Survive or Distract as a Strategy or burn a Soulstone but get it back if you don't get them. Could be fun?

[edit]And if they're really coming at you then don't [0]Advanced Training and instead [0]Ruthless Leadership on a Guild Guard and get another three Raptor Strikes in before hand.

[wizuriel]

cheers to the guide so far. I'm looking to get started in Malifaux and leaning to go with Lucius as a master.

though yeah wish he could work with a few more models. Executioner and Hounds seem like they should be part of his division.

Edited December 9, 2010 by wizuriel

[Odin1981]

Looking forward to picking his boxset up sometime in early January. If you want I could help contribute some stuff about him once I get some games in with him.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I can't wait for the Guild Guard/Friekorps showdown.

[wizuriel]

Curious what people think of this list:

Lucius: 3 soulstones

Drill Sarge: 3

2x Guild Captains: 14

3x Guards: 12

Lawyer: 7

39/35

General idea is When Lucius activates his captains activate who activate 2 guards. Between the Drill Sarge and Lucius that is a lot of fire power. Lawyer helps provides some additional defense. Biggest issue I see with this force is speed (which hopefully won't be much of an issue with Lucius).

[hippieshopper]

Naw, Lucy can be speedy as all hell.

Took 6 VP from Seamus on turn 2.