Kirai

[Aberration]

So today I ran a list with the Dead Rider and the Lost Love Totem. I made it a point to cast the totem's spell early upon the Dead Rider to make him a spirt and asuming we round down on wounds he was down to 4 wounds. At 4 wounds he gains (+1) Melee Expert, Hard to Kill, and Sythe: Poision 2. I ran him up front to tie up the Teddy(s) I face facing. He then litteraly destroyed one in one turn no problem. I feel that if you are playing a larger game than a boxset these are two must haves for Karai. It is amazing.

Oh so nasty. It always rounds up though so it would be 5 WD and not 4. I can't wait to finally get to read the book today...so stoked to see how awesome the Ikiryo is...(or how awesome I hope it is)

[maeisaskank]

I've been doing a lot of proxy to test out the new stuff and from what I've played everything is phenomenal. And thank you for letting me know we round up! I couldn't find the answer to that question anywhere! That changes his abilities. I believe that gives him Fast so he still would have three attacks. Let me know what you think of Ikiryo, I enjoy her, I just need to find a way to get her to the enemy faster.

[Aberration]

I have to wait about 8 more hours to even see the book and the anticipation is killing me :sad2:

I was hoping Ikiryo would be speedy but with the "Don't Blink" trigger it seems like that could be very broken. The trigger also seems like the most efficient way to deliver a killing machine to its target. 12" is a massive summoning area!!!

[pigi314159]

Yea....basically here's what you can do.

Turn 1, walk Kirai forward 4. Summon Ikiryo 12" forward. Cast Into the Spirit World.

Ikiryo activates, walks forward and Calls Spirits to bring the entire crew within 4" of her.

Turn 2, activate Kirai. Sac Ikiryo to heal 2 wd (from Kirai's ability) +2 wd (from Ikiryo's ability...yes you have to discard 2 control cards), Kirai back to full...rinse and repeat. Your entire crew can cover almost 30" in 2 turns this way. And theoretically, it is repeatable as long as you pull a 5 :crows and a 7 :masks or better every turn. Not the best odds, but not terrible either.

[Aberration]

Yea....basically here's what you can do.

Turn 1, walk Kirai forward 4. Summon Ikiryo 12" forward. Cast Into the Spirit World.

Ikiryo activates, walks forward and Calls Spirits to bring the entire crew within 4" of her.

Turn 2, activate Kirai. Sac Ikiryo to heal 2 wd (from Kirai's ability) +2 wd (from Ikiryo's ability...yes you have to discard 2 control cards), Kirai back to full...rinse and repeat. Your entire crew can cover almost 30" in 2 turns this way. And theoretically, it is repeatable as long as you pull a 5 :crows and a 7 :masks or better every turn. Not the best odds, but not terrible either.

So savage. I can't wait. :puppy:

[Veskit]

Yea....basically here's what you can do.

Turn 1, walk Kirai forward 4. Summon Ikiryo 12" forward. Cast Into the Spirit World.

Ikiryo activates, walks forward and Calls Spirits to bring the entire crew within 4" of her.

Turn 2, activate Kirai. Sac Ikiryo to heal 2 wd (from Kirai's ability) +2 wd (from Ikiryo's ability...yes you have to discard 2 control cards), Kirai back to full...rinse and repeat. Your entire crew can cover almost 30" in 2 turns this way. And theoretically, it is repeatable as long as you pull a 5 :crows and a 7 :masks or better every turn. Not the best odds, but not terrible either.

You had me doing a quick pull of my rulebook, had me excited. Alas the Call Spirits only moves spirits 4" towards Ikiryo, now yes you can 2xWk the models afterwards 10" (for most) but not quite as fast as you're saying here.

How does a model that has already activated work if it is sacrificed and resummoned? Can you activate Ikiryo Wkx2 do a spirit call, then activate Kirai sac Ikiryo, summon a new one and get Ikiryo to activate a second time slowed? If so I just found my new favorite thing!

[Gargathor]

I have two questions:

Kirai's 'In the Spirit World' does not note and end time (such as "until end of Encounter' or 'until end closing phase').

When does the "This model gains Spirit.' clause end? Why doesn't the spell mention the end time?

Second, can a fellow Warmachine player confirm or deny my suspicions about models that are 'sacrificed'? I read it on my own, and all I got out of the explanation on p.25 of the rule book was that sac'ed modes don't leave tokens. But a description of Seishin earlier in this thread leads me to believe that sac'ed models are a bit like 'removed from play' in Warmachine (i.e., a sac'ed model cannot return to play).

Normally a Seishin is sac'ed due to its 'Fragile Connection', but Kirai's 'Seishin Beacon' overrides this, thereby allowing an otherwise 'removed from play' model to remain in play. Correct?

Thanks for your help.

[pigi314159]

In the Spirit World ends during the Closing Phase. It's specified...somewhere that all effects that do not specify a duration end during the Closing Phase. I suspect book 1, but might be errata...I forget. But definitely Closing Phase.

Don't play Warmachine, but here's the semantic difference as it applies to Kirai. A sacrificed model within her range does not generate a seishin. So normally, when a seishin dies it doesn't come right back. Seishin Beacon does indeed override the saccing and instead makes it count as killed...which triggers Kirai's ability to summon a seishin.

But killed, buried, and sacrificed and involve physically removing models from the board. Killed is what happens when a model is reduced to 0 wds. (Imagine a model getting killed). Buried usually happens based on spells and triggers, the model usually comes back onto the board somehow (imagine your model hiding underground to pop out again). Sacrificed means the model just goes away, POOF! (imagine a model getting eaten.) This is important because it leaves no counters (corpse or scrap) and doesn't trigger "killed" effects.

[Wodschow]

In the Spirit World ends during the Closing Phase. It's specified...somewhere that all effects that do not specify a duration end during the Closing Phase. I suspect book 1, but might be errata...I forget. But definitely Closing Phase.

First page of the errata pdf.

Timing (p.13)

Add to the end of the second paragraph in Timing: “If an

effect does not have an end listed, it ends during the Resolve

Effects step of the Closing Phase.”

[Gargathor]

Thank you pigi314159 and Wodschow for your replies! They both contributed to my understanding of the game and the specific models in question. Cheers!

[pigi314159]

You had me doing a quick pull of my rulebook, had me excited. Alas the Call Spirits only moves spirits 4" towards Ikiryo, now yes you can 2xWk the models afterwards 10" (for most) but not quite as fast as you're saying here.

How does a model that has already activated work if it is sacrificed and resummoned? Can you activate Ikiryo Wkx2 do a spirit call, then activate Kirai sac Ikiryo, summon a new one and get Ikiryo to activate a second time slowed? If so I just found my new favorite thing!

Oops...my misread...it's what happens when you read late at night.

Anyways...as to the saccing and resummoning, yes. Exactly as you said. Technically it's a "new model" when you summon it, so go ahead and call spirits again.

[Chucklemonkey]

Bit of threadomancy but thought it best instead of starting a new one.

For all of those who have played a Kirai crew, how many seishin did you find you needed?

I see it is rare 5, did you often find 5 seishen on the board? Basically is it a 1 clamshell or 2 clamshell purchase on top of the crew box?

Thanks

[Zephir]

You need 5. Because of how easy it is to get more, plus I start every game with 4, (You can go through them pretty quick, with evolve spirit or when she eats one for hp, cards, and fast.) I have gotten to 5 a few times, so it's good to have the extras on hand.

[Aberration]

I've been starting with 2-3 myself, depending on game size. I would definitely recommend just getting all 5.

[Veskit]

Put me in the camp of starting with 3 and a few times hitting the Rare 5 camp and losing a summon once or twice where I could have put one down.

I'm still adjusting to when to sacrifice seishin just because I anticipate hitting that Rare 5 cap within an activation or two (and expecting to have to activate something else in between).

The Seishin appear and disappear so quick you're pretty much guaranteed to need 5.