Tactica: Ramos

[CrazyBones]

I'm with you Hannibal, I'm sticking with my Steamborg. It's pricey but a ton of fun to use and I find than it's very lethal. Ramos pumping out spiders even out the numbers and so far I've had success with him.

[hannibal]

Yeah, one of my favorite things is that Ramos can be just a factory. In my first game, I spent like 3 turns just scrounging a scrap counter, then casting combat mechanic on the steamborg, then churning out an electrical creation. Or I'd summon an arachnid (from the scrounged counter), then summon an electrical creation.

[nerdelemental]

First, thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. I try and always say that when I'm going to ignore it. :whistle:

I picked up Joss because he's really cool and I picked the steamborg because he's cool (actually the reason I picked the whole faction). So I like 'em, I'm gonna use 'em. Any advice for dealing with the fact I'm gonna be outnumbered here?

You gotta run it to see if you can make it work.

So, you're going to run Joss and the Steamborg together at 35, huh? It can be done. I think you'll lose a bit more than you win because, as you said, you'll be outnumbered and then on the defense and lose some board control. Good tactics can re-balance the equation but if you're having fun and know it's an uphill battle, there's no problem.

If you get frustrated, get your opponent to up the SS game size to 40 or 45 and load back up on the lil dudes (prob more arachnids but maybe Gamin).

[hannibal]

Thanks! And maybe getting my teeth kicked in a couple of times will cool that desire to use both Joss and the Steamborg. Thanks for all the advice, especially on the Student of Conflict.

[Vitzh]

@BugKing

The games that Knightdrake played last were on lower amounts of terrain. My last few games were not. They easily fit into what the rulebook described for terrain. My spiders did hide as they advanced up the table but in an attempt to project multiple threats they eventually had to leave cover. A list with Joss, Ramos, and the spiders has a single must deal with threat: Joss. How are your opponents not easily murdering spiders when you eventually have to try to do something with them?

How is Df 4 anything but horrible? Its not like the Df stat is only used for ranged attacks, and these models never get into melee. Its really annoying to watch your hand get drained trying to defend these turds only to eventually see your opponent cheat fate down because its so easy to get off triggers. Armor 1 doesn't help out nearly enough when the low defense opens up + fate damage flips.

I find tactics telling me to waste time and try to outmaneuver positions incredibly dubious. My games have generally been decided by the third turn. If I stall my opponent wins the scenario. If I engage I get slaughtered. Suggesting I play with beasts with Ramos is conceding the point that his crew is awful.

[Zee]

@ Vitzh:

I think this is one of those "time and practice" situations. You need to try it out vs a few different opponents. If you're having the same issues, then maybe something is amiss. I've watched TBK play, and he always maximizes the amount of LOS he is providing to his models. Simply running these spiders around isn't enough. Luring them for a turn is also important. Thanks to Spiderlegs, these guys zip through terrain pretty well. Depending on the strategy/scheme, you should have the mobility to get to where you need to go. While they are insignificant, you have the option of running them into a swarm, who has high amounts of mobility, armor, and survivability.

Give it a few more games, and take note as to what happens. Maybe an ol' bait and switch technique might go further.

Or maybe Ramos isn't your guy, and another master may be more your style?

[Kealios]

By the way, in comparison to Steamborg's Df, name a Ht 3 model that has a better Df than a 4? [only 2 in the game] Name a Ht 3 model with a Df of less than 4?

Greater (5)

Razorspine Rattler

Warpig

Equal (4)

Peacekeeper

Hooded Rider

Mature Nephilim

Teddy

Less (3 or 2)Ice Golem

Bad Juju

Desolation Engine

Killjoy

He isnt actually that bad. Dont use Ht 3 models if you want a high Df. The best in the game is 8, unless you consider buffs. All the 8's are Masters or Totems. Most of the 7's are Totems or Ht 1 models.

8

Perdita (Ht 2)

Lilith (Ht 2)

Voodoo Doll (Ht 1)

7

Bete Noire (Ht 2)

Jackalope (Ht 1)

Poltergeist (Ht 1)

Candy (Ht 1)

Baby Kade (Ht 1)

Giant Mosquito (Ht 1)

Summary? Df 4 isnt actually all that horrible, especially when you consider what its actually on.

I think this list may not be for you. I feel you...Pandora and Marcus are both kicking my butt even though I keep trying them...

[nerdelemental]

Suggesting I play with beasts with Ramos is conceding the point that his crew is awful.

Dude.

If you just want to hate then I'm going to step aside and let you. You can never make everyone happy all the time and maybe you're just in the mood to hate all things Malifaux and everyone associated with it. Fine, fine.

If you want to simmer down to a slow boil and just let some advice soak in you might have some really good tactical information to offer soon other than "He sucks goatballs."

I believe I'm the one that suggested you try some of the other Arcanists offerings, and taking my words out of context to use them to illustrate some wacky point is just offsides.

First, this thread of yours is Tactica: Ramos, not his battlegroup. Within this thread, though, I did agree and criticize that his box set isn't how I'd typically run him. They're good with him, but Ramos shines the bigger your games get, I think. Your Tactica is based off of two weeks with just box sets (so I gather - you didn't provide a lot of elaborate feedback into the nature of your testing to get to your judgement). Using the Golems (still constructs) OR beasts just shows his versatility. Most of us here have been pushing the spiders (his signature, by the way) and Joss. I've pushed the Steamborg only at bigger games, but that's often my feel of many models at the 10+ soulstone size. Just my opinion, though.

So, feel free to quote this (but please try to keep it within the context of my intent):

Nerdelemental believes that Ramos is a decent master but his strength gets more noticable at higher point sized games where he can control the board even better and bring both more swarms (in the form of Arachnids) and one or two of the heavies such as either Joss or the Steamborg. However, Ramos has perhaps the most flexibility as an Arcanist, able to play and support the Golems just as well as mechanical things, and even some beasts will play well under his control.

There! Hope that helps! Not being snarky, but doing a review of any of the masters right now with only the bare skeletons of the full line in place is really just a disaster waiting to happen. They were tested not in this limited vaccuum but against the full range released in this first book. Be patient and try many combinations and army variations to see what works for you and your playgroup.

[blkdymnd]

Thats why they are Arcanists... they all work together. Vitzh, you talk like you can ONLY use Ramos and those that are part of his "crew", when the rulebook freely allows you to use any Arcanists models with him as well as any Mercenaries. Take advantage of that for Pete's Sake. I run Lady J. They are pretty much also kind of a one-minded battle group. So according to your theory, there is no way I would use anyone from Sonnia or Perdita's battlegoup to help plug the gaps in their strategy?

When I first saw "Tactica: Ramos", I too thought it was an actual Tactica (which people who have played the battlegroup A TON have provided some), and not just a vent session...

[knightdrake]

We played our match up last week of Ramos against Zoraida. The game ended in a draw for us but the game did have some good info. Zoraida had treasure hunt and Ramos Assassinate. Terrain was set up with either 1 large piece or 2 small pieces per square foot. I felt this was more then used in previous games and did provide more opportunity for gaining soft or hard cover.

Turn 1 the Surilds leap and take the objective remaining Neverborn move up. Ramos crew does the same.

Turn 2 Joss moves up and engages the Surilds, Ramos moves behind cover with Steamborg charging to kill the Gunslinger. Surilds push out of engagement with Joss, 1 leaps back with token and double moves for a secure spot secure in deploy zone. Zoraida creates a voodoo doll with marks on Steamborg. It fails obey and charges Romos, bad flips so minimum damage.

Turn 3 General fighting with Z having the Steamborg charging Ramos again, bad flips. Joss offs a Surild. Candy move to start casting Self Loathing on Joss to good effect.

Turn 4 Joss dies to Self Loathing, Steamborg again fails Obey. 1 Surild moves to secure secondary objective on opponents side of board.

Turn 5 Haven't seen much with Ramos in previous rounds because nothing could happen. Control hand didn't have the suits to make anything happen. Soul stones were used to counter Steamborg damage or to attempt creating a spider. Now in turn 5 the control hand comes together. Electrical creation is summoned to damage Candy and sorrow. Steamborg goes down to self loathing. Healing flips for Ramos.

Turn 6 Ramos control hand is still good and summon Electrical creation to kill my securing Surild and Candy finally goes down from Ramos. Game ends with my main objective complete 4VP with Ramos crew defending the two secondary announced for 4VP.

This match up was to use the advice given throught this thread to see if some of these external factors would change the play for Ramos. I'd say they did to a degree but the core issue was present. The flips or control hand needs to be optimal to achieve the high cards needed and additional tomes. Ramos had to hang back and either fail at creating spiders/summon and burn soulstones to try and make it work. Last two turns finally came together but at that point he had no chance to take my master down, she also had a good number of ss left.

This Ramos player again experienced what has been a recurring theme of his games. It is needing the high card and an additional tome. Combined with having to defend models since in this case the crew count was low and being offensive. The Ramos set up just doesn't result in an efficent Master. I played a spell and control master against him so the control card usage wouldn't be as needed from constant attacks and still an issue.

Other configuations of the crew are discussed but the overall feeling is Ramos is not that great to use. This thread on Vitzh part is ending up being a vent but through our playing of him is just verifies what we are experiencing. Call it bad luck on pulling cards or this person just doesn't get it but I haven't seen proof that Ramos is that good.

As the thread is labelled, Ramos: Tactica. So if you have more to add in tactica in his use then add it so we can test it out.

[Happypanda]

Been playing my boxed set a bit and took the advice to switch out the Steamborg to Joss and was quite happy. We also reevaluated the amount of terrain we had been setting up and started putting down more walls and such and was pleasantly surprised by the change in tactics I used to get around stuff. Still I had problems but I think I need to work on when to swarm and when to keep a bunch of spiders out.

[Isoulle]

We played our match up last week of Ramos against Zoraida. The game ended in a draw for us but the game did have some good info. Zoraida had treasure hunt and Ramos Assassinate. Terrain was set up with either 1 large piece or 2 small pieces per square foot. I felt this was more then used in previous games and did provide more opportunity for gaining soft or hard cover.

Turn 1 the Surilds leap and take the objective remaining Neverborn move up. Ramos crew does the same.

Turn 2 Joss moves up and engages the Surilds, Ramos moves behind cover with Steamborg charging to kill the Gunslinger. Surilds push out of engagement with Joss, 1 leaps back with token and double moves for a secure spot secure in deploy zone. Zoraida creates a voodoo doll with marks on Steamborg. It fails obey and charges Romos, bad flips so minimum damage.

Turn 3 General fighting with Z having the Steamborg charging Ramos again, bad flips. Joss offs a Surild. Candy move to start casting Self Loathing on Joss to good effect.

Turn 4 Joss dies to Self Loathing, Steamborg again fails Obey. 1 Surild moves to secure secondary objective on opponents side of board.

Turn 5 Haven't seen much with Ramos in previous rounds because nothing could happen. Control hand didn't have the suits to make anything happen. Soul stones were used to counter Steamborg damage or to attempt creating a spider. Now in turn 5 the control hand comes together. Electrical creation is summoned to damage Candy and sorrow. Steamborg goes down to self loathing. Healing flips for Ramos.

Turn 6 Ramos control hand is still good and summon Electrical creation to kill my securing Surild and Candy finally goes down from Ramos. Game ends with my main objective complete 4VP with Ramos crew defending the two secondary announced for 4VP.

This match up was to use the advice given throught this thread to see if some of these external factors would change the play for Ramos. I'd say they did to a degree but the core issue was present. The flips or control hand needs to be optimal to achieve the high cards needed and additional tomes. Ramos had to hang back and either fail at creating spiders/summon and burn soulstones to try and make it work. Last two turns finally came together but at that point he had no chance to take my master down, she also had a good number of ss left.

This Ramos player again experienced what has been a recurring theme of his games. It is needing the high card and an additional tome. Combined with having to defend models since in this case the crew count was low and being offensive. The Ramos set up just doesn't result in an efficent Master. I played a spell and control master against him so the control card usage wouldn't be as needed from constant attacks and still an issue.

Other configuations of the crew are discussed but the overall feeling is Ramos is not that great to use. This thread on Vitzh part is ending up being a vent but through our playing of him is just verifies what we are experiencing. Call it bad luck on pulling cards or this person just doesn't get it but I haven't seen proof that Ramos is that good.

As the thread is labelled, Ramos: Tactica. So if you have more to add in tactica in his use then add it so we can test it out.

Steamborg and Joss is a bit much. You usually want one or the other and the saved points should be spent on Spiders. Ever so many spiders...

[hannibal]

Okay, so I've been playing Ramos for a couple of weeks, and I thought I'd share some comments & questions. I played a 40 SS game and a 30 SS game. The crew I took was:

35 SS: Ramos, Student of Conflict, Joss, Steamborg, 2 arachnids.

40 SS: see above + 3 more arachnids

I know, I know, the 35 SS crew had too few arachnids. But I really wanted to make the Joss & Steamborg combo work.

So I won with the 35 SS crew and lost with the 40SS crew. The loss was extremely close and was due to a red joker & then 13 for damage flip with Johan against Ramos. So my thoughts:

Ramos: Linked In vs Construct Spider. So, I don't end up using Construct Spider much. Between Joss and the Steamborg, in the clutch turns of the game, I find being able to use Ramos to cast spells and then activate one of those two far more useful than popping out another spider.

For example, I have often used Combat Mechanic or Arcing Screen as a buff. Or I use electrical creation to tie down one model for a turn (because you can summon it and place it within bash range of the electrical creation) and then blow up some arachnids. Or just sling some fireballs to soften someone up before sending in Joss or the Steamborg.

That combo just seems more valuable than popping out another spider. Anyone else feel this way?

In the last game, I made 1 spider. Mainly because I did it early, but then later I needed to move him up. Then I was in the thick of it, where I needed the Linked In. All that being said, his spells are just awesome.

Other units:

The Student of Conflict is quite nice, and his Fast has come in handy several times. But the lower Ca value and lack of Tomes means the Student is basically not going to cast Ramos's spells. But the Assist and Combined Efforts both can be handy, especially with so many arachnids floating around there.

Arachnids are pretty nice, especially as speedbumps and initiative sinks. Often I could move them up and force the other player to at least commit one flank or the other as to where he's going to go. They were often very good at simply moving twice and tying people down in close combat.

However, I found Latch on to not be very useful. Their low wound count generally means that while I can force someone to burn an activation killing them, they're going to kill the little guy. A really nice combo has been Defensive stance on the approach, but I seldom use it in melee as I'm doing other as a priority.

The Steamborg is a nice brute, and attracts a lot of attention, but yeah I see how people say Joss is better. His ability to drop three power tokens on the charge makes him able to one-round almost anybody. The flip side is his lack of armor or hard to wound means he's vulnerable to a counter charge.

[hannibal]

Really, no one has any thoughts? Really? :hmpf:

[Zee]

I think people are just in awe of your review

[knightdrake]

Really, no one has any thoughts? Really? :hmpf:

You didn't give much to go on, it is a very basic battle report and not much beyond that to discuss any tactics.

[Sushicaddy]

Here is an idea for allowing ramos to move while making a Spider each turn, instead of staying still, using Salvage underfire (2) and then summoning a spider.

Actiave ramos - summon Electical creation, walk, use controlled det to kill the electrical creation, cast construct spider.

if construct spider doesn't go off, well, you still have a scrap counter to try it again next turn, but at least you are moving and have a chance to keep some tactical initiative.

[Angus Khan]

Here is an idea for allowing ramos to move while making a Spider each turn, instead of staying still, using Salvage underfire (2) and then summoning a spider.

Actiave ramos - summon Electical creation, walk, use controlled det to kill the electrical creation, cast construct spider.

if construct spider doesn't go off, well, you still have a scrap counter to try it again next turn, but at least you are moving and have a chance to keep some tactical initiative.

Would work, but the electrical creation isn't a construct.

Nice idea, though.

[Sushicaddy]

Would work, but the electrical creation isn't a construct.

Nice idea, though.

aw damn, I thought it was.... I always read it as "electrical construct" in my head.

BOO!

[Haight]

Here is an idea for allowing ramos to move while making a Spider each turn, instead of staying still, using Salvage underfire (2) and then summoning a spider.

Actiave ramos - summon Electical creation, walk, use controlled det to kill the electrical creation, cast construct spider.

if construct spider doesn't go off, well, you still have a scrap counter to try it again next turn, but at least you are moving and have a chance to keep some tactical initiative.

You could use the Brass arachnid to Stoke ramos and reactivate if you want to move. Alternatively, this allows you to (if you don't need to move) activate twice and make two spiders. Just requires a ten for the brass and then ramos to meet his casting cost for the construct spider zero AP spell. Leaves you an open cast as well so you can arc screen for protection or electrical fire, or whatever.

I know as soon as brass comes out he's going to be in a LOT of my ramos lists. Joss not having to ditch 3 power tokens and take wounds, ramos reactivating.... lots of potential there. Additionally it has a cast of 5 Tomes so its relatively useful for casting ramos spells as well.

[TheBugKing]

I've used the Brass Arachnid as Electrical Fire shots 4 and 5 before too. It's nice when you absolutely have to drop some nasty. Electrical fire having a range of 12 really increases its versatility as well.

The Brass Arachnid is definitely one of the best totems in my opinion considering the master it goes with. (Hollow Waif is #1 of course! <grin>)

[Caligula]

Hello! I'm new to Malifaux, having played only one game with Nicodem, my first starter box. As soon as my LGS could get Ramos, I ordered him and picked him up two days ago. I'm going to be playing him this Saturday, and am looking forward to it, the Steamborg one of the selling points for me.

We are playing starters at the moment, so 25 ss for now, and don't have access to anything else really (distibutors sold out, which is a good sign!) I really dig Ramos, and am mixed on all the suggestions on how to run the starter box.

I know it will only be my second game, but I would love to walk in and make Ramos feared! So for someone completely fresh, any tried and true ideas for the Ramos starter? Should I sit back, maybe slowly walk up and make spiders, or try and get up there quickly, using the 'borg as a hammer and the swarms as the anvils? Or something else?

It seems some folks think Ramos is the weakest caster in the game, and others think he is perfectly competitive. I think play style is the arguement. Sometimes how a crew should be played doesn't fit with what we are use too, and we have troubles adjusting. Since I'm brand new, I don't really have any set ways for playing this game, and would love to have some pointers when I waltz in.

My first game I got a draw, and learned quickly that Nicodem is really nasty, he can churn out the zombies!

Thank you for the words of wisdom! Malifaux is really taking off at my store and everyone playing is picking up their second starters, some on their third. Alright, now I'm jaw slackin', thank you much! Sorry for the noob questions and ignorance.

[Nutcase168]

I'd also like to thank everyone especially TBK for thier insight into running Ramos. I just got into the game and want to really run him as the main master.

Though I want to try him with the Ice Golem and Joss at higher point games.

[Caligula]

Looks like I am playing tomorrow, so I'll figure it out, see what all I can and should do, gonna study up tonight. Playing against Lilith, I know her crew is way fast.

[Dv8guy]

So I have put together a 25 ss list including Ramos, Joss, Alyce, and a brass spider. Before I do it (gonna try either way), can it work? Opinions please?