cbtb11235813 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Impact UK said: I guess Sonnia has not got the best single target damage out put that is not her thing, it is those blasts that blanket the opposing crew and if you can add a dash of burning to the mix it is a regular night out at "Sonnia's BBQ & Grill". Right. It comes down to, do you want to put 3-4 damage (maybe more, but that's pretty average for a beater) on one target, or 2-3 on half of your opponents crew with every AP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 I'd almost be tempted to say Sonnia can put near Reva levels of damage on multiple enemy models at a similar range. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbtb11235813 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Adran said: I'd almost be tempted to say Sonnia can put near Reva levels of damage on multiple enemy models at a similar range. It's obviously all situation dependent, but look it at this way. It is incredibly unlikely for Reva to kill 4-5 models a turn. That isn't true for Sonnia. After playing against the Bilz brothers in a team tournament, I will never again underestimate just how much damage Sonnia can do (granted she had help from Hoffman, and things happened that couldn't in a normal game). My 70 stone, 2 master crew did not get a third turn. Rasputina never got an activation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 You misunderstood me, I'm not surprised to see her do 20+ damage a turn. And when you consider the average crew has about 60 wounds, that's scary. Sure armour will lower it, but almost all other defences including triggers can be bypassed. The original poster doesn't like the amount of damage reva puts out that ignores almost everything, but sonnia can do almost the same( let's say 2/3 ish) amount on multiple targets that she doesn't even allow duels on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 They are very different masters that work very differently. That being said, Sonnia does plenty of damage and brings solid board control to boot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazza92 Posted July 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 14 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said: You've obviously never played against a good Sonnia player if you think her damage output is subpar. Yea she takes some support, but when your opponent has no models on the table come turn 3, that doesn't matter a whole lot I see a good player play she. yeah you can put 20 more damage only against an opponent that seeing she take anyway his models all near with each other .... Sonnia is good but isn’t too much resilient... And she do a 2/3/5 damage only...with a Francisco tax of 10 points and with a 2 cards discarded each turn for another tax,obligatory. I’m not saying that she is weak,clearly,I say that for what you pay to make she work,she is’nt too much strong...especially when charged with Mi5 and DF 4... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazza92 Posted July 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 8 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said: It's obviously all situation dependent, but look it at this way. It is incredibly unlikely for Reva to kill 4-5 models a turn. That isn't true for Sonnia. After playing against the Bilz brothers in a team tournament, I will never again underestimate just how much damage Sonnia can do (granted she had help from Hoffman, and things happened that couldn't in a normal game). My 70 stone, 2 master crew did not get a third turn. Rasputina never got an activation Yeah Sonnia can make little target die every turn.But Reva can easy Kill a Big henchmen or a master every turn. With a mobility that Sonnia (and none other Guild masters) can only dream with his move 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tors Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 You REALLY need to see a proper Sonja... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Fazza92 said: Yeah Sonnia can make little target die every turn.But Reva can easy Kill a Big henchmen or a master every turn. With a mobility that Sonnia (and none other Guild masters) can only dream with his move 4. Reva is walk 5 with a 0 push and if you take the charge trigger upgrade you don't get the ignore everything one so she isn't out of this world mobile. She's not very durablr either, she has a single point of defense over an unbuffed Sonnia. Francisco isn't just a tax for his df buff, he is a very capable model in himself and if something ties up Sonnia they usually get to see just how much damage Francisco can do. If you tie Sonnia up a capable Sonnia player will have two or three options to push her out of that unfavourable engagement or good melee models to attack the offending model. Sonnia isn't supposed to do single target damage, she starts to perform well when she gets to hit several targets in one attack so they have very different roles. If Sonnia compared in single target damage she would be utterly insane. Reva also can't control the board in the same way as Sonnia, she can easily shut down a threatening charge vector with her perfectly timed flame walls that stay around until she is ready to attack again on her next activation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact UK Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Fazza92 said: I see a good player play she. yeah you can put 20 more damage only against an opponent that seeing she take anyway his models all near with each other .... Sonnia is good but isn’t too much resilient... And she do a 2/3/5 damage only...with a Francisco tax of 10 points and with a 2 cards discarded each turn for another tax,obligatory. I’m not saying that she is weak,clearly,I say that for what you pay to make she work,she is’nt too much strong...especially when charged with Mi5 and DF 4... Well I have been running Sonnia without Francisco for most of the year and she seldom ends up dead (turn 5 a couple of times after she has activated). I am rather fond of using the nice MI7 with blasts and burning she can now have, and clawing back all those wounds and grab a handful of extra cards in the process. Suppose you can play it safe and go DF6 but that would not lure people into attacking her. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 @Impact UK Even with the defense buff I find people tend to go after her pretty hard. She's not the kind of model you want to give free reign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact UK Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ludvig said: @Impact UK Even with the defense buff I find people tend to go after her pretty hard. She's not the kind of model you want to give free reign. Very true, not the sort of model you can chuck in peoples faces and expect to live. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazza92 Posted July 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Tors said: You REALLY need to see a proper Sonja... I see she in hands by people that win lot of tournaments... tournaments all won with other factions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fazza92 said: I see she in hands by people that win lot of tournaments... tournaments all won with other factions. There are players that win tournaments with Sonnia. Too bad people don't record tournaments, one of the Bilz brothers has soloed her and won several tournaments. I used to win a lot more with McCabe but since I switched to Marcus I have lost almost all my games. That doesn't make Marcus worse thsn McCabr but proves I am worde with Marcus than McCabe. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazza92 Posted July 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 Yeah yeah surely,I ‘m not repeating that Guild is junk,nor Sonnia. In that case I think that probably McCabe can be more efficient than Sonnia with GG18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 He might. He plays a very different game than her and is a better counter to elite lists in my experience. He doesn't like the revised versions of assassinate though since he gives up points easily for that. I've always played a very aggressivr McCabe where he is usually one of the first if my models that dies because he goes all in and tries to draw the maximum amount of heat from turn one or two to let the rest of the crew do their thing. Another player at my club plays him a bit more carefully and buffs other models and throws out the occasional slow instead of charging in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 wave 5 helped elevate Guild on another level imo and made the gap between top and not-so-top masters considerably closer, plus it gave us 2 models which helped with some of the greatest problems (Investigators and Quellers). Latest erratas helped too, LLC for 1 is a big one there, maybe also Guild Guard for 3. I played Guild exclusively for the last 2 years and imo we where never stronger 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact UK Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Tris said: wave 5 helped elevate Guild on another level imo and made the gap between top and not-so-top masters considerably closer, plus it gave us 2 models which helped with some of the gretaes problems (Investigators and Quellers). Latest erratas helped too, LLC for 1 is a big one there, maybe also Guild Guard for 3. I played Guild exclusively for the last 2 years and imo we where never stronger Wave 5 gave Guild some very nice toys to play with and opened up a lot of new avenues. 1 hour ago, Ludvig said: He might. He plays a very different game than her and is a better counter to elite lists in my experience. He doesn't like the revised versions of assassinate though since he gives up points easily for that. I've always played a very aggressivr McCabe where he is usually one of the first if my models that dies because he goes all in and tries to draw the maximum amount of heat from turn one or two to let the rest of the crew do their thing. Another player at my club plays him a bit more carefully and buffs other models and throws out the occasional slow instead of charging in. I really need to get back into playing McCabe, he was my first Guild master, but when I look at him now I just drool a little with no clue on how to start building the crew. Maybe a good topic to start. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tors Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 On 7/14/2018 at 11:02 AM, Impact UK said: Well I have been running Sonnia without Francisco for most of the year and she seldom ends up dead (turn 5 a couple of times after she has activated). I am rather fond of using the nice MI7 with blasts and burning she can now have, and clawing back all those wounds and grab a handful of extra cards in the process. Suppose you can play it safe and go DF6 but that would not lure people into attacking her. This. Come engage her. Her Melee just hands out burning, Draws Cards, Heals and Pushes her.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazza92 Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 There are too much match when a Melee Sonnia die very quick,especially without Francisco...Her damage output is very low...Without Francisco you have 3 Ap With Mi7 and Df4 or 3 with Mi5 and Df4...with 2/3/5 damage(and burning ok,But is a condition and can be removed)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tors Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Guess you are hopeless then... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 You aren't using melee sonnia as a prime damage dealer, you are using her card draw and healing trigger. Although with the blasts added she can deal a reasonable amount. Plus badge of office basically makes her survive almost anything for 1 activation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Fazza92 said: There are too much match when a Melee Sonnia die very quick,especially without Francisco...Her damage output is very low...Without Francisco you have 3 Ap With Mi7 and Df4 or 3 with Mi5 and Df4...with 2/3/5 damage(and burning ok,But is a condition and can be removed)... Ithink she attacks whatever is engaging her to push, heal and draw cards before continuing to flame burst. I doubt anyone runs Sonnia like the Viks or Misaki although I would love to see that! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 @Fazza92do you have more success using other factions? If so, what would you say are the differences for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact UK Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, Fazza92 said: There are too much match when a Melee Sonnia die very quick,especially without Francisco...Her damage output is very low...Without Francisco you have 3 Ap With Mi7 and Df4 or 3 with Mi5 and Df4...with 2/3/5 damage(and burning ok,But is a condition and can be removed)... I think you are envisioning Sonnia charging into the middle of the opposing crew to dish out punishment with that big sword, this is generally not the case (unless Papa Loco is joining her). The thing you are missing is the card draw of a possible 6 cards and healing up to 6 wounds with a push to get back out of range. Now as for good old Francisco, well to make him a good investment he needs to be in the action and Sonnia's range 14 cast that can hit models about 8 inch away from the original target has him sat back not doing much with his AP at times, I feel that those Soulstones can be put to much better use in other models that support Sonnia. Double teaming the Jury with a Queller is rather a nasty combination for example, The Jury's Fee's and Courtroom Scrutiny backed up with a Suppression Marker and a well placed Subdued from the Queller makes most beaters struggling to land a hit (and if the Purifying Flame is in the same post code you get a very upset opponent). It is also worth keeping in mind that Killing your opponents models is fairly pointless unless they are helping you score VP, I have won a couple of games without killing any of my opponents crew (obviously with Nellie) and have won with only 1 models standing, yea I have not joined the club of winning a game that I was tabled in. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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