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July 2018 Errata


Mason

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9 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sorry, I disagree with that. 

Building a crew after seeing the table, the encounter details, and faction your opponent declares are decisions made during the game. The player that is better at building their crew around those pieces of information should have an advantage.

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14 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

The reason I think malifaux can justify the size of its model range is because this shouldn't work. If you can build a generic list that can do everything well then you probably should cull about60% of the models from each faction. 

And I know some masters can sort of do this, and I don't like it. 

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I like to build crews that I like for fluff, style or because I have the minis painted. 

Yes, I know that list-building should care, but I think "playing" should care more, and for me (only my opinion) it's not an in-game decision. 

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32 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

This not being possible have been a design goal from the very beginning of Malifaux. Some masters have certainly been able to do this at times, but have usually been errataed soon after this ability has been demonstrated over a few major events. Pre-built crews being competitive run directly against what this game is supposed to be about.

If you can pull off decent results with pre-built lists, more power to you. But you shouldn't expect the erratas to warp the game to make this easier; it makes no sense for Wyrd to errata out one of the main draws the game has compared to the competition. Also, it wouldn't make much sense economically for Wyrd as many, if not most, models justify themselves as niche pieces that only works in very specific situations. If generalists could successfully replace specialist in competitive meats that would make a large portion if the game's model base superfluous. Not a sensible business decision...

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47 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

That's never been the nature of this game though.  

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4 hours ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

Tournaments tend to list the strats and schemes for each round in the players pack that you get in advance. So you can very much build a list for each game before even getting in the car to drive to the event. You don’t know the opposing crew but you can build lists before the event.

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5 hours ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

Building the crew to the scheme pool is sort of a core tenant of Malifaux, and is a huge draw for just about every player I've ever talked to. Also, what do you mean it takes to long? You likely spent hours upon hours building and painting your models, traveled (even if its just down the road) to the tournament, and you don't want to spend 5 minutes building a crew for the game you are going to spend the next 2+ hours playing? Crew building is my favorite part of this game. If Malifaux ever truly gets boiled down to what you are describing I know I probably would not play much longer. 

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58 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

Tournaments tend to list the strats and schemes for each round in the players pack that you get in advance. So you can very much build a list for each game before even getting in the car to drive to the event. You don’t know the opposing crew but you can build lists before the event.

Every tourney I have been in we may get the strats and schemes for the first round the night before. The next two rounds at the tourney before the round begins. 

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29 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

Every tourney I have been in we may get the strats and schemes for the first round the night before. The next two rounds at the tourney before the round begins. 

That seems counter productive. All that does is rush list creation and/or slow down getting games started. Providing them in a player pack on registration let’s you speed that part up by letting people make lists beforehand. Also good because it lets people organise transport for miniatures rather than needing to bring your whole collection.

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11 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

That seems counter productive. All that does is rush list creation and/or slow down getting games started. Providing them in a player pack on registration let’s you speed that part up by letting people make lists beforehand. Also good because it lets people organise transport for miniatures rather than needing to bring your whole collection.

Now you understand why I feel the way I do. 

 

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7 hours ago, -Loki- said:

That seems counter productive. All that does is rush list creation and/or slow down getting games started. Providing them in a player pack on registration let’s you speed that part up by letting people make lists beforehand. Also good because it lets people organise transport for miniatures rather than needing to bring your whole collection.

Building your list to a time limit is a skill too. Providing stratagem and schemes beforehand has been something debated here many times, and some people prefer them in advance to pre plan the lists and reduce time, others view it as one of the skilljs of the game, so want it to be tested. 

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3 hours ago, Adran said:

Building your list to a time limit is a skill too. Providing stratagem and schemes beforehand has been something debated here many times, and some people prefer them in advance to pre plan the lists and reduce time, others view it as one of the skilljs of the game, so want it to be tested. 

You see with that statement you have found something. One way (in advanced ) you have a miniatures skirmish game. The othe way ( create the day of) you have a miniatures collectables game.  I signed on to this game thinking it was the former. I got away from the later years ago because of the he who has the deep pockets wins.  If that is what Malifaux is at its heart I am disappointed. 

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On 7/12/2018 at 12:26 PM, Terry Bailey Sr said:

You see with that statement you have found something. One way (in advanced ) you have a miniatures skirmish game. The othe way ( create the day of) you have a miniatures collectables game.  I signed on to this game thinking it was the former. I got away from the later years ago because of the he who has the deep pockets wins.  If that is what Malifaux is at its heart I am disappointed. 

I understand what you are saying but I don't think it's completely true. I do think you do need to own more than just 50 ss worth of crew to be competitive, but it is certainly possible to build a variety of crews that can be competitive from a relatively small pool. 

Have you ever tried a fixed pool event? I have, and enjoy the fun of selecting 100 ss worth of models and upgrades to be able build a range of crews from.

If you plan it well I think you can get competitive lists for all strategies and schemes produced so far from under 200 ss. ( and that can support 3 or 4 different masters easily. If you want to use more masters you may need a larger pool).

Now you may well have to buy more things than that 200 ss, because you probably don't want exactly 3 of a model, or you want something. But for casual competition you can also get away with a smaller pool and do well, because you aren't going to need to cover reckoning and supply wagon at the same event. 

Edit- also just owning lots makes building a crew in a timed environment harder. 

 

Edit 2

Because I don't think its worth a new post. 

Building in advance compared to building at the table has no real difference on how'll much you own. ( unless the building in advance means you decide you need to buy a new model). 

Building in advance gives you time to look for combinations with out time pressure. Building at the table allows you to modify the list to match the table. I know I only ever took scramble on tables with huge amounts of severe terrain. And snipers only work if the table has enough long lines of sight. 

 

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it is quite easy to go to events with fixed crews so in no way is this pay to win

I have won 3 events with fixed and podiumed plus done well in others, even came in the top half of a nationals using fixed crew mei feng all weekend (and believe I would have come higher if I didnt face the same opponent twice at the end of the sunday)

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I have several fixed lists for certain Strategies.

I have several fixed lists for certain Masters, or Factions in the case of Resserectionists & Guild.

I have several fixed lists for certain regular opponents.

I have 1 fixed list for whenever my favorite Scheme shows up.

I have 1 fixed list for opponents who just start talking ish..... to make it, win or lose, the most drawn out, annoying game of their lives.

 

It's not about making lists on the fly.  It's about seeing what's on the table (terrain, Strategy, opposing faction.. sometimes player) and having already planned for this situation and act accordingly.  Put in the work ahead of time.

Or don't... I'm not one of your parents, do what you want.

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In  1st Edition it was choose Strategy and Schemes and then decide on Faction and Hire Crews.

In 1.5  Edition  you chose Faction then determined Strategies, then hired Crews and then chose Schemes.  

In 2nd Edition you announce Factions, then determine Strategy and Schemes, and then hire Crew.

No matter what edition, it has been Strategy first, then Crews. Has everyone been playing their games in this fashion? Probably not. This doesn't mean it's not a game rule, just that they have opted not to play it that way during their normal course of playing. It also means that there's no real point in being upset over a Tournament Organizer enforcing a legitimate rule.

 

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I can understand Nico needing a Nerf, but this is pretty crazy. 

Nico used to be the summoning master, now he's one of the worst summoners in the game. 

 

The amount of resources necessary to do any real summoning is pretty crazy now. Want a b fully healed flesh construct? Get one for the low low cost of 7 corpse markers. 

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:54 PM, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

As many others have said, that is entirely against the spirit of the game. Crew building is an essential part of each game, and it is what makes Malifaux unique. There shouldn't exist "silver bullet" or "all comers" lists. In fact, if you ask me, even releasing schemes and strats ahead of the game is already a concession, as per rulebook these should be flipped just before the game, and not prepared in advance. 

The idea is that you get to see what your opponent faction is, what the schemes and strategy are, what the terrain looks like etc. and then come up with what you think is the best solution for that. This is crucial because a list might work in a certain scheme pool and might be terrible in another. Some crews are better at interacting, some at killing etc. Some crews love a lot of cover, some don't. Some hate severe terrain, some don't care. In fact, usually even masters work well in a situation and might not in another.

Here's an example: I like to play Ulix. I find him very strong and resourceful BUT in the wrong scenario, he'd have a really hard time. He hates lots of terrain because it blocks charge lanes of his pigs. Against an opponent that targets Wp a lot he will struggle, because pigs have really low Wp in general - they'd end up being paralyzed or blown up (Pandora is a hard counter!) very easily. Also, he's great at some strats and schemes but sucks at other. So there's a lot of combination of schemes, terrain and opponents in which I feel he's a good choice, and others in which he'll stay in the box and I'd bring Wong or Zipp instead. Or maybe I do play him, but I see Neverborn so then I get a different upgrade, or change a couple models...you see, this is an integral part of the game!

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2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I can understand Nico needing a Nerf, but this is pretty crazy. 

Nico used to be the summoning master, now he's one of the worst summoners in the game. 

 

The amount of resources necessary to do any real summoning is pretty crazy now. Want a b fully healed flesh construct? Get one for the low low cost of 7 corpse markers. 

No one in the game summons (or should summon) fully healed models. They all come with some wounds, flicker or some other mechanics that impact that. And I doubt you can say he's the worst summoner - corpse markers are easy to place, and he has a huge range of models available to summon. Models come wounded, and he can heal them if he wants to - he just has to plan a bit more and be careful, rather than nonchalantly summoning stuff everywhere. So yeah, Nico is fine - he's now on par with other masters in Ressers and is an option, not an autotake.

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2 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

No one in the game summons (or should summon) fully healed models. They all come with some wounds, flicker or some other mechanics that impact that. And I doubt you can say he's the worst summoner - corpse markers are easy to place, and he has a huge range of models available to summon. Models come wounded, and he can heal them if he wants to - he just has to plan a bit more and be careful, rather than nonchalantly summoning stuff everywhere. So yeah, Nico is fine - he's now on par with other masters in Ressers and is an option, not an autotake.

I think two of the best mechanics Wyrd invented were Kirai and Molly with their summoning.

Molly has to be close to the enemy to get some wounds on her summons or can play around with summoning and let them instantly die for example to get a scheme marker out of a drowned.

Kirai has two summoning abilities. One causing other models to suffer dmg (and in a seishin case die) or the opponent can calculate with it when he wants ikiriyo to get summoned, which is also pretty fair and a nice defense mechanic that totally fits the summoning theme. Both designs had a price that you felt impacting the game without being to tough to achieve or to easy to get and both mechanics work just fine in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

No one in the game summons (or should summon) fully healed models. They all come with some wounds, flicker or some other mechanics that impact that.

Karina can, but she've forgotten more about necromancy than knows the rest of the Resurrectionist together. :)

(yes, I know there's consequences in the end of the turn) 

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5 hours ago, Lokibri said:

I think two of the best mechanics Wyrd invented were Kirai and Molly with their summoning.

Molly has to be close to the enemy to get some wounds on her summons or can play around with summoning and let them instantly die for example to get a scheme marker out of a drowned.

Kirai has two summoning abilities. One causing other models to suffer dmg (and in a seishin case die) or the opponent can calculate with it when he wants ikiriyo to get summoned, which is also pretty fair and a nice defense mechanic that totally fits the summoning theme. Both designs had a price that you felt impacting the game without being to tough to achieve or to easy to get and both mechanics work just fine in my opinion.

Yep I agree. Especially Molly's mechanic is quite creative. I'm also happy with new additions, for example Pandora who needs conditions etc. The Flicker idea is also quite neat!

But yeah I'm a big fan of Molly - she'd be my go-to if I ever decided to play Ressers!

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