July 2018 Errata

[4thstringer]

Just now, MetaphoricDragn said:

 

I've long supported just errata-ing the Guild right out of the game.

I'm sending the guard to your house right now.  Please submit for reeducation.

[Gnomezilla]

4 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I'll never stop underestimating Hoffman.   Don't tell me what to do.

*Marlena-like sulking noticeable from all the way over in the Outcasts forum, complete with side-eye to be sure you noticed*

Just now, MetaphoricDragn said:

I’ve long supported just errata-ing the Guild right out of the game.

*see above*

[4thstringer]

3 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

*Marlena-like sulking noticeable from all the way over in the Outcasts forum, complete with side-eye to be sure you noticed*

 

What's all this?  Some sort of mercenary come to spy on the righteous guild?

[katadder]

19 minutes ago, Tapdancer said:

Being the number one gild pick is hardly the greatest achievement in the game

I dunno, Lady J is really good and have faced some nasty Lucius crews. But Nellie like Sandeep in arcanists is just too good at everything to ever not be picked by guild players, and in alot of other factions she would also be the top pick. She is very much on a par with Sandeep in power level

[daniello_s]

1 hour ago, Mason said:

This errata is only for things which are breaking the game (or just inherently broken, like Burn Out). Ironsides' Cache may or may not be higher than needed, but either way, she's not rolling over her opponents because of it.

If so, then why there is no Hamelin in this lot???

[Chris Garstan]

"We no need no water let the ... burn..." (c) Sonnia Creed... 
Btw same goes to Wong , who kills Nelly easily...

 

[4thstringer]

4 minutes ago, Chris Garstan said:

"We no need no water let the ... burn..." (c) Sonnia Creed... 
Btw same goes to Wong , who kills Nelly easily...

  

Wow, that is not the Master I would have expected to be named as the Nellie Answer (even if my last game against wong, he did almost kill nellie with indirect damage).  Cool to see that people are having a different experience than I am.

[Chris Garstan]

1 minute ago, 4thstringer said:

Wow, that is not the Master I would have expected to be named as the Nellie Answer (even if my last game against wong, he did almost kill nellie with indirect damage).  Cool to see that people are having a different experience than I am.

Btw everyone forgot the Wooden Guy...  Collodi...

[4thstringer]

5 minutes ago, Chris Garstan said:

Btw everyone forgot the Wooden Guy...  Collodi...

In conversations I have had, Collodi is considered to be very good but to have some bad matchups, mainly Sandeep and Sonnia.  I think we are going to see a resurgence in Lilith myself, and that Sandeep will remain near the top.  It should be fun to see though. EDIT: and TT, Shen, Asami and Jacob.

[Gloomy]

32 minutes ago, Chris Garstan said:

Btw everyone forgot the Wooden Guy...  Collodi...

I don't think Collodi is broken, he's very good but not broken

I'm ok with the Nico nerf. I'd stopped using him because he wasn't fun to play against, and if my opponents not having fun then I'm not either. Looking forward to getting him back on the table

[Omenbringer]

34 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

Even as I am a bit sad about the new "not so awesome" nicodem summons, I hope we can try to use him as a support master, not just a summon spammer. I fear his needing of corpses for almost everything can be a problem, but he looks like he still can heal, give fast and many positives to his crew. Maybe now we will know he can do other things apart from summoning.

I have always thought his support was very good.

[joediamond]

The Beacon nerf kinda hurts.  If toning down his copying efficiency was the goal, I was hoping they’d put a TN12 on Arcane Storm and bumped all the other TN’s up by one instead of increasing the Ca penalty.  I don’t have high hopes of getting any work done with a Ca4 Arcane Storm, and a Ca4 Mind Among the Senses will likely only be effective at moving friendly models now.

 

The other Sandeep nerfs seem reasonable, and only time and table experience will tell how this works out for Sandeep, so I’m trying not to get all gloom and doom just yet.

[Clement]

59 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

Even as I am a bit sad about the new "not so awesome" nicodem summons, I hope we can try to use him as a support master, not just a summon spammer. I fear his needing of corpses for almost everything can be a problem, but he looks like he still can heal, give fast and many positives to his crew. Maybe now we will know he can do other things apart from summoning.

Healing his own crew would feel so much more productive if he didn't have to constantly fight against their hard to wound...  Just healing more then one model takes me 3 cards normally.  (cheat high for attack, cheat REALLY LOW for defense, and finally for damage).

[Haagrum]

Let's see how these changes play out before going full Chicken Little.

I've never played against Sandeep, but his multiple layers of utility are clearly very strong. Oxfordian Mages and Gamin giving flips didn't take a hit. Maybe his new Limited could've given him ItW, rather than it being on his base card, but otherwise it looks like a reasonable set of changes.

Nicodem can still do well as a summoner, but needs a different set of support models. Nurses and Chiaki get around the 1 Wound summonings, but that means not having the Soulstones for the full card-generation engine,  while Undertaker needed the change. Clearly, these are not the worst things that could've happened. Nicodem can also heal at range with Decay, potentially blasting off his own models if they're summoned close to opponents. He'll play as a support master rather than a full-fledged spammer, which can't be a bad thing unless you're after a crew that plays itself.

Let's see how it goes. Hopefully, we get more diverse crews as a result.

[WWHSD]

21 minutes ago, Clement said:

Healing his own crew would feel so much more productive if he didn't have to constantly fight against their hard to wound...  Just healing more then one model takes me 3 cards normally.  (cheat high for attack, cheat REALLY LOW for defense, and finally for damage).

If you are trying to heal a single model to full with Decay, there's no reason to need to cheat in a card for damage as long as you don't Black Joker the damage flip you should be good to go with relenting to whatever Nico flips.

 

[Haagrum]

25 minutes ago, Clement said:

Healing his own crew would feel so much more productive if he didn't have to constantly fight against their hard to wound...  Just healing more then one model takes me 3 cards normally.  (cheat high for attack, cheat REALLY LOW for defense, and finally for damage).

Healing multiple models for 1 AP without any drawbacks *shouldn't* be cheap or simple to do. Nico can still do it - it just costs him cards, and it's not as though they all need to be high cards, either.

[Wolfpact]

Congratulations Wyrd, that Nico nerf cost you my business going forward, at least where Malifaux is concerned. Ridiculously overdone, and since Ressers were the only faction I felt inclined to expand on and you just gutted my only Resser Master (I play Tara as Outcast).... I'm voting no-confidence with my wallet.

 

Doesn't do wonders for my faith in TOS, either.

[-Loki-]

10 minutes ago, Wolfpact said:

Congratulations Wyrd, that Nico nerf cost you my business going forward, at least where Malifaux is concerned. Ridiculously overdone, and since Ressers were the only faction I felt inclined to expand on and you just gutted my only Resser Master (I play Tara as Outcast).... I'm voting no-confidence with my wallet.

 

Doesn't do wonders for my faith in TOS, either.

Honestly it speaks volumes about Nicodems power level if your main faction was ressers and the only master you own is Nicodem.

[Wolfpact]

10 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

Honestly it speaks volumes about Nicodems power level if your main faction was ressers and the only master you own is Nicodem.

No, it says "I bought into Ressers starting with Nico, back when he was considered a mid-tier at best, and because I enjoyed the notion of him I bought almost all of his summons."

 

Nice try, though.

[KrazyIvan]

 

9 minutes ago, Wolfpact said:

No, it says "I bought into Ressers starting with Nico, back when he was considered a mid-tier at best, and because I enjoyed the notion of him I bought almost all of his summons."

 

Nice try, though.

The game is designed to push owning multiple masters in a faction. Always has been. Previous master nerfs confirm this. If you're only getting mad about this now you only have yourself to blame.

[Wolfpact]

2 minutes ago, KrazyIvan said:

 

The game is designed to push owning multiple masters in a faction. Always has been. Previous master nerfs confirm this. If you're only getting mad about this now you only have yourself to blame.

Mad? No. Displeased with and lacking confidence in the balance team to the point of my wallet closing? Yes.

The card-draw.. probably justified. Taking a bat to the knees and then the skull of his specialty as a Master to appease whiners? Sorry, that's a deal-breaker as it makes me doubt the capabilities of the dev team to an intolerable degree. It shows a design philosophy that I refuse to endorse with my hobby budget.

[WWHSD]

1 hour ago, Haagrum said:

Healing multiple models for 1 AP without any drawbacks *shouldn't* be cheap or simple to do. Nico can still do it - it just costs him cards, and it's not as though they all need to be high cards, either.

Just compare Decay to Ramos's healing:

Decay:
Ability on base card.
8 inch range.
Needs any card on the duel to heal a single model 2 points. Flipping a Black Joker is the only way to fail.
Burn a corpse marker make it a full heal with built in trigger.
Can damage enemies while healing friendlies (requires winning an opposed duel and flipping at least moderate damage). 
Can heal multiple friendlies (requires winning an opposed duel and flipping at least moderate damage). 

Combat Mechanic:
Pay 2SS and a slot for an upgrade.
6 inch range.
Needs a 3 of rams or higher to succeed.
Always burns a scrap marker.
Heals 1/3/4


Ramos will take a friendly Construct version of Decay any day of the week. 
 

[Clement]

1 hour ago, Haagrum said:

Healing multiple models for 1 AP without any drawbacks *shouldn't* be cheap or simple to do. Nico can still do it - it just costs him cards, and it's not as though they all need to be high cards, either.

And yet Dreamer (the other master who summons 1 hp models) does it all day.  I'm likely just salty that a marginally competent anything can cleave through literally anything Nico summons if he doesn't sink the extra AP (or corpse and upgrade) into helping it along.  If he does sink the extra resources/time into helping them along, now a min damage 3 beater (and there are LOTS of them out there) still cleaves through almost anything* he can put on the table in 1 AP.

The reason I always liked summoners was because they are generally really good at attrition style fighting.  Ressers, as a faction, also favor attrition style fighting.   Now I'm having trouble visualizing how Nico can hang with the attrition crowd at all while still using his summoning skills.  Now he needs to alpha something *HARD* because his "zombie horde" is going to fold to anything with Ml 5, or god help you, blasts.

*Yes yes, I too can name 4 models he can summon that hypothetically don't die to 3 damage.  He can summon 20 models at the moment, the goal is to broaden the summoning pool, not tighten it.

[Clement]

32 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Just compare Decay to Ramos's healing:

Decay:
Ability on base card.
8 inch range.
Needs any card on the duel to heal a single model 2 points. Flipping a Black Joker is the only way to fail.
Burn a corpse marker make it a full heal with built in trigger.
Can damage enemies while healing friendlies. 
Can heal multiple friendlies. 

Combat Mechanic:
Pay 2SS and a slot for an upgrade.
6 inch range.
Needs a 3 of rams or higher to succeed.
Always burns a scrap marker.
Heals 1/3/4


Ramos will take a friendly Construct version of Decay any day of the week. 

 

Nico needs an 8 to make it work or he doesn't hit the TN.  Also putting 2 wounds into low df models I'd argue is not as good as the higher Df stuff Ramos has around.  Also, that upgrades comes with accomplice on it.  Let's not pretend you're buying it for the healing.

And make 3 models from a single corpse?  Nico would do that any day of the week.

It's like they're different styles of support/summon.   Ramos throws more and more spiders at you, blowing up the ones he doesn't need.  Healing isn't something he does for the stuff he summons.

[WWHSD]

24 minutes ago, Clement said:

Nico needs an 8 to make it work or he doesn't hit the TN.  Also putting 2 wounds into low df models I'd argue is not as good as the higher Df stuff Ramos has around.  Also that upgrades comes with accomplice on it.  Let's not pretend you're buying it for the healing.

And make 3 models from a single corpse?  Nico would do that any day of the week.

It's like they're different styles of support/summon.   Ramos throws more and more spiders at you, blowing up the ones he doesn't need.  Healing isn't something he does for the stuff he summons.

My bad. I missed the TN. An 8 or higher of any suit is still easier to hit than a 3 of a specifc suit.

You’d really trade Nico’s summoning to be able to get 3 Canine Remains off a single corpse marker once a turn (assuming you don’t flip the Black Joker) instead of being able to summon stuff like Belles, Punk Zombies, and Kentauroi? You only get the three if you spend a stone and have a high card of the right suit.

The Combat Mechanic heal is horrible. Accomplice is the best thing about that card and it’s not worth 2SS and a slot. Especially with all the other things Ramos needs to spend slots and stones on.

If most Resser undead models weren’t Hard to Wound, I think that Decay would be too good. It’s a damaging blast that you are targetting at typically low Df models that get plus flips to defense. This is going to give them lowish duel totals if they don’t relent. They not only don’t take damage from the attack but they are healed by it.

My point was that Nico has access to a great heal even if it isn’t doing blast damage or healing. Corpse markers are relatively easy to come by. 

I do think that the Nico nerfs probably went to far. Dropping his Wounds and “fixing” Undertaker probably would have been more than enough. I just think that complants about Decay are misplaced.