I've played against guild the last three weeks. Here's what I learned.

[4thstringer]

So I've been lending out my guild models to friends recently.  My opponents are all experienced wargamers but only occasional malifaux players.  Here is my experience against guild:

1. You gotta be able to take the hit.  Guild is going to hit you in the mouth and if you can't survive a piece trade then you lose.  

2.  Nino can be a devasting model if you aren't carrying a sniper. This is double against def 5 crews. Hair trigger pls.

3. Playing against guild is stressful.  You definitely feel threat ranges and activation choices a lot more.  This may be the effect of playing against a crew that I know most of their capabilities and threat ranges like the back of my hand.

4.  Playing against a crew that is mostly def 5 instead of mostly 6 is a big big difference. A def 5 vs def 7 master is a world of difference.

5. Because of guilds low speed, it can be easy to have a model get isolated and overwhelmed.

 

These may or may not jive with your experiences.  What do you think?

[Arli]

Based on my experience playing against you, you don't use Nino nearly as much as you should.  He was clearly the MVP in both games with Nacho last night.  

[Ludvig]

This has been my experience as well. I haven't properly used lures against us yet though, lure lists always gave me a headache as guild.

[4thstringer]

Lures really hurt when you are out activated.  That's the combination I was able to use against lj last night.  

[cbtb11235813]

In my limited experience playing against Guild (I play Arcanist), you guys tend to get the upper hand when you have the first shot. With critical strike on everything, even your cheap stuff can hit fairly hard, and the expensive stuff hits harder. But, if the opponent can survive the first hit or two (Arcanists generally can), then the retaliation usually lands in my favor. Its actually similar to my plan for most Gremlin crews. Dig in and take the hits, knowing I'm going to be insanely outactivated turns 1 and 2. Then hit back and watch them fold

[Cedar]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

1. You gotta be able to take the hit.  Guild is going to hit you in the mouth and if you can't survive a piece trade then you lose. 

You can also hit them first, so they won't have a chance of hitting you. 

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

2.  Nino can be a devasting model if you aren't carrying a sniper. This is double against def 5 crews. Hair trigger pls.

True, especially when he takes Debt to the Guild and other Family models are present on the field, which stops a lot of interacts.

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

3. Playing against guild is stressful.  You definitely feel threat ranges and activation choices a lot more.  This may be the effect of playing against a crew that I know most of their capabilities and threat ranges like the back of my hand.

Due to large amount of models with chain activation, I found that it's almost impossible to stop Guild from killing one of your key models with their master and nice beater.

 

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

4.  Playing against a crew that is mostly def 5 instead of mostly 6 is a big big difference. A def 5 vs def 7 master is a world of difference.

True, but remember that volume of attacks trumps high DF/WP - you'll eventually hit their master, although the punch won't be strong.

 

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

5. Because of guilds low speed, it can be easy to have a model get isolated and overwhelmed.

Guild has access to pushes/places, so isolating one target is more difficult than expected.

Also- as Hamelin player, I hate high WP Guild brings to the table, as well as Emissary, who can devastate horde of children and rats.

 

[4thstringer]

9 minutes ago, Cedar said:

You can also hit them first, so they won't have a chance of hitting you. 

 

The thing that guild can do right now, that I don't generally see when I play against non-guild, is that a guild crew can have so many hitters that even if you hit first and take that first model out, the amount of min 3 hits they can bring is really punishing.  For example, I took out Jury with one of my main beaters, and I still had Frank, LJ and executioner to deal with.  I don't see that as much in my opponents crews.

[Cedar]

True - when playing against Guild I'm seeing crews that have one or two more beaters than me, especially now, when Guild players are taking few Guild Guards for scheming. I usually go for their most vunerable heavy hitters (like thrall or executioner) and let other (like LLC Jury or Numb Peacekeeper) roam free, decimating my precious models (It does not bother me if I win the game at the end).

[4thstringer]

17 minutes ago, Cedar said:

True - when playing against Guild I'm seeing crews that have one or two more beaters than me, especially now, when Guild players are taking few Guild Guards for scheming. I usually go for their most vunerable heavy hitters (like thrall or executioner) and let other (like LLC Jury or Numb Peacekeeper) roam free, decimating my precious models (It does not bother me if I win the game at the end).

Thats the key for sure.  If you can survive taking those hits, you'll do alright.  

[Gnomezilla]

In this month’s games we are both advancing in a very cagey fashion, although I don’t know whether it’s due to my unfamiliarity with my new faction, Guild’s inherent speed, or the opposition being a Hoffball (twin guardian variant).

I miss my wave 4 general upgrades and Dampening Field as much as I feared. But, they’re not NPE to play against. Annoying, yes, but only affecting one model at a time? That I can deal with (or ignore).

The feeling of being short of stones wasn’t just me. He spends them all on card draw and initiative, even with the effigy card draw on offer.

[4thstringer]

5 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

In this month’s games we are both advancing in a very cagey fashion, although I don’t know whether it’s due to my unfamiliarity with my new faction, Guild’s inherent speed, or the opposition being a Hoffball (twin guardian variant).

I miss my wave 4 general upgrades and Dampening Field as much as I feared. But, they’re not NPE to play against. Annoying, yes, but only affecting one model at a time? That I can deal with (or ignore).

 The feeling of being short of stones wasn’t just me. He spends them all on card draw and initiative, even with the effigy card draw on offer.

Oooh, good point.  I feel the need to stone for cards so hard in Guild Crews, and then need them to survive too.  That pressure was definitely there despite my opponent having 6 or 7 stones to start yesterday.

 

[longfanz]

1 hour ago, Cedar said:

True - when playing against Guild I'm seeing crews that have one or two more beaters than me, especially now, when Guild players are taking few Guild Guards for scheming. I usually go for their most vunerable heavy hitters (like thrall or executioner) and let other (like LLC Jury or Numb Peacekeeper) roam free, decimating my precious models (It does not bother me if I win the game at the end).

How are the thralls vulnerable? I faced two of them last weekend (with Lucius) and stopped trying to kill them because the were tough and they even have healing... I was playing Sonnia (with Papa Loco and Franc among other things).

[4thstringer]

1 minute ago, longfanz said:

How are the thralls vulnerable? I faced two of them last weekend (with Lucius) and stopped trying to kill them because the were though and they even have healing... I was playing Sonnia (with Papa Loco and Franc among other things).

Sonnia doesn't do the style of damage that I would try to apply to a thrall directly I don't think.  But things with higher minimums tend to make the Thralls dead pretty quickly.

[longfanz]

3 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Sonnia doesn't do the style of damage that I would try to apply to a thrall directly I don't think.  But things with higher minimums tend to make the Thralls dead pretty quickly.

Yes, the impossible to wound makes them everything but vulnerable in my opinion XD Killing one, maybe, killing two... I'll try dobule thralls with Sonnia (and cherufes parting gift) on my next game.

[Gnomezilla]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

Oooh, good point.  I feel the need to stone for cards so hard in Guild Crews, and then need them to survive too.  That pressure was definitely there despite my opponent having 6 or 7 stones to start yesterday.

It’s not a bad thing that needs fixing—after all, we* now can spend a reasonable amount on the gamble of a lead-lined coat instead of a prevention flip. It’s not like the lack of card draw used to be. It’s just notable.

 

* (sigh) “We”.

[4thstringer]

4 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

It’s not a bad thing that needs fixing—after all, we* now can spend a reasonable amount on the gamble of a lead-lined coat instead of a prevention flip. It’s not like the lack of card draw used to be. It’s just notable.

 

* (sigh) “We”.

Most of the things that are unique about playing guild are not things that I believe require fixing to be fair.  They are just facets of play.

[4thstringer]

6 minutes ago, longfanz said:

Yes, the impossible to wound makes them everything but vulnerable in my opinion XD Killing one, maybe, killing two... I'll try dobule thralls with Sonnia (and cherufes parting gift) on my next game.

I think in this case "fragile" is a relative term.  I love them with Lucius and have gotten a ton of work out of them.  But I know some players around here have found that without careful positioning you will often lose them in a turn. (I think the example I heard was killed by a combined summoned Kentauri and shikomei.)

[jchrisobrien]

3 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I think in this case "fragile" is a relative term.  I love them with Lucius and have gotten a ton of work out of them.  But I know some players around here have found that without careful positioning you will often lose them in a turn. (I think the example I heard was killed by a combined summoned Kentauri and shikomei.)

THAT WAS ME!  Stupid Nicodem.  I tried fielding the thralls again against models with higher WP, and got some decent healing out of them.

Ressurs can get a lot of min 3 beaters out there, same with Neverborn. 

[longfanz]

1 hour ago, jchrisobrien said:

THAT WAS ME!  Stupid Nicodem.  I tried fielding the thralls again against models with higher WP, and got some decent healing out of them.

Ressurs can get a lot of min 3 beaters out there, same with Neverborn. 

But even with min 3 it will take like 3-4 hits to take down one thrall, right? They look tough but I have to try them.

[Cedar]

23 hours ago, longfanz said:

How are the thralls vulnerable? I faced two of them last weekend (with Lucius) and stopped trying to kill them because the were tough and they even have healing... I was playing Sonnia (with Papa Loco and Franc among other things).

Mostly I face them when playing Hamelin so volume of bleeding diseases are enough to kill them withoit problem. In Guild I'd go Peacekeeper or flurty frank against them. Min. 3-4 damage can take them down with few swings.