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Erik1978

Samurai and 0-upgrades?

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I really like the Samurai models (and concept of course) but are they really worth 8 SS?

So far I haven't seen anyone use them and while the 0-upgrades for them seem like a much needed helping boost, it also mean they can't have recalled training or anything else for that matter.

What do you guys think? And is there 1 of the 3 free upgrades which is preferable if only use one Samurai?

 

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I'd say they're a bit behind the curve but reasonably decent if you're not try-hard 100% optimising your stuff. Jigoku (no damage during activation) and Earth (+3 wounds) are both good. Jigoku if you're strictly shooting. Earth makes them nice budget tanks. I've certainly gotten mileage out of their 9 wounds, armour+2 and discardless defensive stancing. Fun models to field every now and then.

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Thanks. You don't feel Wk 6 Cg 7 is worth anything? I suppose with Shenlong or Mei Feng that can be helped on their way. :)

I like the idea of no damage in own activation, walk out into hazardous and shoot from there. (Very situational of course)

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Mobility doesn't help them with their gun (two misses and you're dead), and if you try to put them to the front line you're looking at 8ss model with df5 wd6, recipe for disappointment if you ask me. Mobility upgrade doesn't do enough to make them convincing as scheme runner options either, but admittedly that's the upgrade I've had least experience with. Mainly because it's been so underwhelming the few times I've tried it.

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A 9 wd model with Armor 2?  Gimme!  I think people play them all wrong.  They are walking tanks with Earth.  Their Diato is a solid 6 and one of the few ways we can ignore armor with 2 triggers that have the potential to increase armor.  The gun is a trap, but also useful.  Only use it when you have a 13 in hand, target only things with DF5.  At worst you tie, but if your opponent is packing a RJ it would be tempting and 4 damage on an Armor 2, 9 Wd model is a lot better than flipping a BJ or losing a duel to low cards in hand and them cheating in RJ damage on something else.

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2 hours ago, Hargus56 said:

A 9 wd model with Armor 2?  Gimme!  I think people play them all wrong.  They are walking tanks with Earth.  Their Diato is a solid 6 and one of the few ways we can ignore armor with 2 triggers that have the potential to increase armor.  The gun is a trap, but also useful.  Only use it when you have a 13 in hand, target only things with DF5.  At worst you tie, but if your opponent is packing a RJ it would be tempting and 4 damage on an Armor 2, 9 Wd model is a lot better than flipping a BJ or losing a duel to low cards in hand and them cheating in RJ damage on something else.

But at that point, why aren't you using Izamu?

 

 

Samurai suffer from being early releases, and as such their abilities are a little understated. I've only used Mr. Jigoku, and if you have a way to push him, and perhaps even make him fast, he becomes a very potent mobile firing platform (rg 14" is pretty damn high). 

If anything, Samurai could use a few quality of life upgrades. WP5 or even 6, ml rg 2", a + to attack and damage on their Run Through ability, Earth giving 1 more wd, and Heavens getting a rework (I'm thinking something along the lines of Ice Dancer pushes at the end of activation, and adding extra movement to run through).

Also, Obsidian Oni work very well with them. I think Samurai have their place, but I'd like to see them get a little love.

 

 

Very interesting to note is that all our ranged generics want different kinds of support.

Archers want tanks and a upgrade carrier nearby.

Snipers want free focus.

Samurai want mobility.

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Izamu is 10ss, that 2ss difference is not nothing even if it gives you extra goodies. Earth's been serving me decently in a melee role, particularly in a Shenlong crew (+2 focus on that Daito, mmm...). While I could appreciate buffing their engagement to 2", they're nowhere near High River Monk/Thunder Archer level of bad. Bit behind the curve, but not terribly so.

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Oh by no means, it's just that Snipers are too good I believe. 

And Izamu brings a bunch of benefits, such as his min 3, melee expert, Ruthless, higher ml range, free upgrade slot for something like Smoke Grenades. 

Earth isn't bad, but I'd rather pay the premium there. 

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1 hour ago, Nikodemus said:

 they're nowhere near High River Monk/Thunder Archer level of bad. 

*Erik looks down at his 2 freshly painted Thunder Archers with a frown...*

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I've got two awesomely painted archers too. Even painted woodgrain on their helmets and everything. I occasionally use them against very new players, because their ranged attack is actually pretty fun and functional. It's the fact that they get completely shut down by simply parking a model next to them, and die to a stiff breeze, that keeps them from "real" games.

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The point reductions on HRM and Archers make them niche models that can definitely see table play. I've not been disappointed. 

As to samurai.  I use one with jigoku often with Lynch and I use one with Earth often with Brewmaster. Brewie can obey him to shoot out of activation if I want, and his armor 2 and 9wds is great to misdirect onto, which I use a lot with brewie. The fact that he can just walk and heal with brew while I pass out swill is nice. 

Otherwise they need a bit of love to be competitive. They aren't terrible, but 2/3/4 damage is pathetic on an 8ss model that has nothing else going for it.

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I actually really like Jigokou Samurai.  He's a great all-rounder who can dish out some solid shooting and melee (and as said, he's one of our few sources of anti-armour).  The thing I've found with his shooting attack is that with :+flip:+flip:+flipto hit, it's likely the enemy is going to need to drop some high cards to make you miss (or get lucky on Df). This makes your other attacks easier to go through.  Or you wait till the end of the turn when they're low on cards and go to town.  I've had a few turns when I've Walking Fire'd a good 3-4 times... (Recently managed to kill 3 stolen in 1AP, then ran out of targets!)

If they got anything, I'd only really like to see Run through get :+flip to attack & damage like all the other similar abilities out there and for Heaven to up the pushes of Run through and maybe up the Melee range of Daito to 2".

Haven't tried Earth, but reckon he could be pretty good with healing.

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