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TeddyBear

Proposal: A request of evidences, before making any change at game!

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I understand and i've read all your opinions, one more thing that i feel to write and maybe i'm repetitive; it seem so strange to think of a master that "was born" in this way, from start of m2e.. after years will be changed.. isn't my case, but for people who have buy him in good faith, and all his models (and i know someone) will be really unfair.

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3 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

I understand and i've read all your opinions, one more thing that i feel to write and maybe i'm repetitive; it seem so strange to think of a master that "was born" in this way, from start of m2e.. after years will be changed.. isn't my case, but for people who have buy him in good faith, and all his models (and i know someone) will be really unfair.

It is unfair, in a sense.

Fairness is a subjective thing. A nerf to a popular crew effectively devalues a player's investment in Malifaux, or results in them having models which perhaps they would not have purchased if they had been in their post-errata state.

However, sometimes a certain model or crew is clearly too good, to the point where it damages the ability of anyone not using it to enjoy the game or is avoided by players for that reason. In those cases, something needs to be done to avoid devaluing everyone's investment in Malifaux (to say nothing of the future viability of the game itself).

I accept that it's disappointing for whomever plays the masters that are cuddled. From experience, I can safely say that power creep, mandatory alpha striking and forced counter-plays are far greater threats to the game that a few players getting upset because their crew lost some of its power. Leveticus, Dreamer and Colette both copped serious reductions in power from their changes, but the first two are certainly still competitive (and Colette suffers from Sandeep's relative power as well as people's desire for an "I Win" button).

TL;DR - Fairness is an issue for all, and that is how it needs to be seen. Some may need to suffer a loss if all players are to benefit and the game is to be saved.

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On 5/19/2018 at 8:00 AM, TeddyBear said:

Summer erratas are coming. Every day, arise new discussions, about what should be nerfed, and strangely are always "the same peolple" to complain; Nellie, Sandeep, Nicodem, Collodi, Hamelin or Somer.. Always the same masters (Always same one or two for for every factions...)

As player, i sincerly and officially ask at Wyrd, that before any erratas, this is supported at least to some Battlereports or some Results in medium-size tournaments...

It's not possible to see is own models, nerfed every 6 months, just because of same complaints of same 4 people...

For those are agree with me, excuse me for outburst.. for the same people that always complaints for nothing: 

 

now you can cover this topic of minus!!!! 😎

 

 

Lol, what makes you think wyrd doesn't do this already?  Do you just want you to show you their entire process so you can judge if it is "valid".   I have to agree with loki,  the OP seems to feel very entitled.

 

If you are so concerned about wyrd listening to certain folks (who generally try to provide evidence themselves to wyrd) why do you just try to make a better argument instead of just accusing wyrd's game devs of not doing their jobs.   During GG2018 open playtest I made several arguments to Aaron about certain balance issues.   This is why we have the matched schemes to strats instead of one "always".  This is why we have the balance between killing and not killing schemes.   I spelled out my issues, and used Math to show the change between GG2017 and early GG2018 to back up my point.

 

You can get what you want.  It just takes effort on your part, and for you to be right.

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2 hours ago, Kbonn said:

Lol, what makes you think wyrd doesn't do this already?  Do you just want you to show you their entire process so you can judge if it is "valid".   I have to agree with loki,  the OP seems to feel very entitled.

 

If you are so concerned about wyrd listening to certain folks (who generally try to provide evidence themselves to wyrd) why do you just try to make a better argument instead of just accusing wyrd's game devs of not doing their jobs.   

I believe (unlike you) wyrd's game devs have understood, what i' try to say with this topic. I thought i had argued well as regards what i asking.

Most of folks of you speaking, don't try to provide any evidence, instead they just complained about some masters, if you don't believe me, try to read again Sandeep's Topic; it seems to me, that there are some profiles that don't post anything from since that discussion. (probably i think the worst?) i repeat: until there is evidence that sandeep and nico wins most tournaments, for me they should not be nerfed, if the problem is only drawing mechanics, there other masters that have same problem. (i don't speak about new models interactions)

They were even able to complaints about myranda +ie!! Incredible..

Do you know what is my fear? Is that all these complaints about Sandeep/Nico bringing non-existing troubles at ears of developers.

Sandeep is much more a year from his release and Nico from starting of m2e!!

 

2 hours ago, Kbonn said:

During GG2018 open playtest I made several arguments to Aaron about certain balance issues.   This is why we have the matched schemes to strats instead of one "always".  This is why we have the balance between killing and not killing schemes.   I spelled out my issues, and used Math to show the change between GG2017 and early GG2018 to back up my point.

i believe, that you wanted to intervene in this discussion, in this way unkind, only because you became interested about gg2018 with your issues and point of views.

just want to tell you that i like much new changes about gg2018, schemes and strategies.

What i would criticise, are changes to masters, is a delicate thing, and should not be made only because a group of some people (or presumed) complaints about them!

Only this.

 

edit. all this makes this debate, boring and redundat for those who read it, i'm sorry, but i believe was correct to answer

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You make a faulty assumption that all Wyrd does is listen for massed complaints and then just changes things in accordance with who is loudest. That isn’t the case. 

You can certainly disagree with the decisions they make. I certainly do and haven’t really liked their design direction since book 3, and I think they severely dropped the ball on several things in book 5, but they do not just listen to complaints and then change things based on who is the loudest without looking at the wider picture and then testing it themselves. Any suggestion that they don’t actually carefully consider errata is a fever dream. And this is coming from someone who doesn’t particularly agree with the majority of the errata they have done. I may not agree with their conclusions but I’ve never doubted they’ve considered what they are doing when they’ve come down.

 

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44 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

You make a faulty assumption that all Wyrd does is listen for massed complaints and then just changes things in accordance with who is loudest. That isn’t the case. 

I have to admit that i have this impression since of changes of Leveticus and Sonnia. Initially i thought these were balanced.. but over time i made a different opinion, especially about "channel" ability, instead about Sonnia,some users tried to explain me some cases why she was too dominant, i very much appreciate this.

Last nerfs, most affect only ss costs.. are very important, but don't distort abilities of characters. On the other hand, i find great the changes at Lucius and Ironside and nerf of Rat-joy.

Anyway, i'll try to reconsider my first impression, hoping that no one master become unplayable (or better saying: that there are no much better options)

(sorry as always for my bad english)

Thanks @Fetid Strumpet

 

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On 5/21/2018 at 9:55 AM, whodares said:

I fail to see how these masters can rival Nicodem's card draw.

Lynch can get back aces on friendly activations, but those are aces and they are not useful for all models. Nicodem can get any card while doing his core mechanic.

[Snip]

Both Som'er summoning engine and Lynch should be able to at least get near Nico when it comes to just card draw/card efficiency. Lots of Bayou Two-card combined with Survival of the Fittest, Criers, and efficient healing should make it pretty doable to draw most of the deck each turn. For Lynch, check out Melbourne shuffle which is litterally a legitimate strategy fir drawing your whole deck each turn. Not saying either of these are as strong and efficient as Nico at all btw, just that their card draw can be... (Hyperbole and all that)...

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Bayou Two Card isn’t really card draw, it’s deck cycling. The cards don’t end up in your hand, they just use the deck faster.

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8 hours ago, tmod said:

Both Som'er summoning engine and Lynch should be able to at least get near Nico when it comes to just card draw/card efficiency. Lots of Bayou Two-card combined with Survival of the Fittest, Criers, and efficient healing should make it pretty doable to draw most of the deck each turn. For Lynch, check out Melbourne shuffle which is litterally a legitimate strategy fir drawing your whole deck each turn. Not saying either of these are as strong and efficient as Nico at all btw, just that their card draw can be... (Hyperbole and all that)...

I knew somebody was going to bring up the Shuffle. That list is such a gimmick it isn't even funny. It's full of weaknesses and can only win by NPE'ing new players who have barely any Malifaux experience. What I did indeed mean, as you mentioned, was that they there are no masters who can make a competitive list which can rival the card draw and efficiency of Nicodem.

 

11 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

Sandeep is much more a year from his release and Nico from starting of m2e!!

Just to elaborate on this: Sandeep has been pretty much dominant for his faction since his release and I'd argue Nicodem has just transformed into a completely different master after all these new additions to the game. Release Nicodem vs the Nicodem we have now is a completely different story and it feels bad when one of the slowest masters in the game can alpha strike you Turn 1 with a 10+ card hand.

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30 minutes ago, whodares said:

Just to elaborate on this: Sandeep has been pretty much dominant for his faction since his release and I'd argue Nicodem has just transformed into a completely different master after all these new additions to the game. Release Nicodem vs the Nicodem we have now is a completely different story and it feels bad when one of the slowest masters in the game can alpha strike you Turn 1 with a 10+ card hand. 

sorry but i still don't see this "dominant" that you talk. On top of that, i went and had a look at Polish meta, probably i missing something, but i dind't see nico or sandeep on top of all tournaments. Same thing in others metas, also Uk and Usa! which are known for bests players. Please tell me if i didn't get a good looking (it's possibile) 

I don't know well last synergies that nico have with his last model. I heard about kentauroi (i imagine about his charge+ taxy ability + corpse marker) and asura. But i don't speak about these last models, i think that it is too early to understand every impact of new models. is possible that something is missed during tests.

About Asura, certainly will become the best henchman for ressers, i see no harm in this. Guild have Francisco, Grem have Francoise, Arcanists have Myranda etc etc.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

sorry but i still don't see this "dominant" that you talk. On top of that, i went and had a look at Polish meta, probably i missing something, but i dind't see nico or sandeep on top of all tournaments. Same thing in others metas, also Uk and Usa! which are known for bests players. Please tell me if i didn't get a good looking (it's possibile) 

I don't know well last synergies that nico have with his last model. I heard about kentauroi (i imagine about his charge+ taxy ability + corpse marker) and asura. But i don't speak about these last models, i think that it is too early to understand every impact of new models. is possible that something is missed during tests.

About Asura, certainly will become the best henchman for ressers, i see no harm in this. Guild have Francisco, Grem have Francoise, Arcanists have Myranda etc etc.

 

 

Listen to the podcasts and speak with the players. That should give you a much better idea. Nicodem has been seen as a cheese pick in the UK and has a certain stigma on him. Playing him means you're just another one of "those" guys. I'm not certain for the USA as I follow the European scene.

Even before Wave 5, Nicodem was already one of those masters a lot of people dreaded. They've just been giving him cool stuff to play with and summon, while patching up the holes in his kit. After Wave 5 it just became crazy because his engine gets in full gear starting from Turn 1. He can get 4 corpse markers/zombies to summon off on Turn 1, which was not meant to be. He was strong because he needed to go to 5 Turns to score points. After Wave 5 he can also start scoring from Turn 2, just like the other masters.

 

I have no problems with Ressers having a go-to model. Most factions have this, so Ressers can certainly have this too. the problem with Asura is she's just too good in general and completely bonkers with Nicodem. At least before Asura you could choose to ignore Mindless Zombies and go for the key models in the crew. After Asura this is no longer possible as they now have access to 2 decent attacks and become worthy of 5-6 stone models when it comes to attacking/debuffing power. Imagine Guild having a similar model for Guild Guards, that could lead to some fun and possibly broken lists. Get a free Guard every Turn and it can pack a decent punch.

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15 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

On top of that, i went and had a look at Polish meta, probably i missing something, but i dind't see nico or sandeep on top of all tournaments. Same thing in others metas, also Uk and Usa! which are known for bests players. Please tell me if i didn't get a good looking (it's possibile) 

The problem with you is that you simply don't understand the whole discussion. You're opposing against arguments no one has ever made in case of Sandeep. You unjustly assume that only Polish meta sees Sandeep as a problem. And where did you get the idea that UK and US players are better than players in other countries? Results of international events show that the competence of the best players is similar, at least in case of UK, US and Poland (at UK Nationals four best Polish players were on 2nd, 6th, 8th and 12th place; do you think they complain about Sandeep because of their incompetence or maybe because of their good understanding of the game?).

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25 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

You're opposing against arguments no one has ever made in case of Sandeep. 

There are at least 3/4 topics about Sandeep!!!!?! What are we talking about here??!!!

32 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

You unjustly assume that only Polish meta sees Sandeep as a problem.

No no no, i write this @whodares because i thought he is from Poland.. Why you feel directly "affected" from this?

Read it again, Are there not many speeches from "Poland Players"? Did i say something wrong??????

 

37 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

And where did you get the idea that UK and US players are better than players in other countries? Results of international events show that the competence of the best players is similar, at least in case of UK, US and Poland (at UK Nationals four best Polish players were on 2nd, 6th, 8th and 12th place

So for example i didn't know this, but thank you for "enlightened" me.. 

This is my personal opinion, so what????

(and i'm not from Poland, Usa or Uk)

I don't understand the whole discussion probably, but you pretend to don't understand.

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1 minute ago, TeddyBear said:

There are at least 3/4 topics about Sandeep!!!!?! What are we talking about here??!!!

You see, you're opposing against Sandeep's nerf because he is not winning all tournaments. But proponents of nerf (large part of the international community, not only Polish players) don't state that he is winning everything, only that he has no exploitable weaknesses and is too good as a generalist master. Just calm down and try to understand people's concerns about the game.

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11 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

No no no, i write this @whodares because i thought he is from Poland.. Why you feel directly "affected" from this?

I was not referring to what you've written to whodares. I was reffering to that:

On 5/19/2018 at 3:00 PM, TeddyBear said:

i don't think that top players from around the world complaining about Nicodem or Sandeep, rather i see Always same 5/6/7 people.. all coming from the same nation..

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9 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

No no no, i write this @whodares because i thought he is from Poland.. Why you feel directly "affected" from this?

So for example i didn't know this, but thank you for "enlightened" me.. 

This is my personal opinion, so what????

(and i'm not from Poland, Usa or Uk)

I don't understand the whole discussion probably, but you pretend to don't understand.

I have no idea why you even thought I was from Poland. You are the one that brought up Poland to begin with! I'm also not in your linked topic -.-

I'm from Belgium, which has a smaller meta than the big countries. Overhere it's less competitive than in the UK, USA, ... which just amplifies the problem even more. Proxying doesn't happen in my local club and Nicodem has been bonkers ever since Kentauroi have been released and our Resser players bought them. Currently all our tournaments for the past year have been won by either Nicodem or Sandeep. And this is just from single players running in a 10+ person small tourney.

 

I don't understand your last point here. You agree you do not have the in-depth knowledge of the discussion, but then attack the person you are referring to in order to devalue his opinion? I'm fairly certain latin has a decent grasp on the game to comment on this, so I'm sure he understands what he is talking about.

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14 hours ago, -Loki- said:

Bayou Two Card isn’t really card draw, it’s deck cycling. The cards don’t end up in your hand, they just use the deck faster.

It is deck cycling. But Survival of the Fittest is card draw, and there is some synergy between cycling and drawing wich was why I brought Bayou 2 card up; when you can cycle through a large part of the deck you can sometimes know more of what is left, and the ability to cheat from the deck can get stronger. Also, the ability to b2c means you'll need fewer cards in hand to hit, and thus taxing your hand less => card draw makes it easier to keep those 13s in hand when really needed... No biggie either way...

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4 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

You see, you're opposing against Sandeep's nerf because he is not winning all tournaments. But proponents of nerf (large part of the international community, not only Polish players) don't state that he is winning everything, only that he has no exploitable weaknesses and is too good as a generalist master. Just calm down and try to understand people's concerns about the game. 

"....we had a big tournament, 46 players. In top 3 we had 2 Sandeep players one of the was first, and the other one ended third.…"

"...Fun fact - in swedish nationals final game was Sandeep vs. Sandeep…."

"..Sandeep overshadowing every other master in AR and steamrolling many tournaments.."

 

These are senteces that i imagine.. not one references to Sandeep and tournaments in that post.. 😃 and i didn't look in others.. 😃 

True there are also complaints, about alleged no-exploitable weakness, but this what would that mean? They made a too strong master? since 20 months..

Anyway more that one people that wrote in that topic, stopped from intervene in forum since that discussion!! this make me smile.

3 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

I was not referring to what you've written to whodares. I was reffering to that:

Anyone speak about Polonia? i didn't mention what nation. How do you know that i'm talking about this? But if it had, do you have a guilty conscience? 

3 hours ago, whodares said:

I have no idea why you even thought I was from Poland. You are the one that brought up Poland to begin with! I'm also not in your linked topic -.-

I don't know why i thought you were Polish. The fact that i think this, is not linked to that linked topic. 

3 hours ago, whodares said:

I don't understand your last point here. You agree you do not have the in-depth knowledge of the discussion, but then attack the person you are referring to in order to devalue his opinion? I'm fairly certain latin has a decent grasp on the game to comment on this, so I'm sure he understands what he is talking about.

But how you don't understand??? I dind't talk in entire discussion about wave 5 models synergies, but only to Sandeep and Nico drawing possibilities. 

Provide big changes to a Master, for me it's different than modify two new models from last wave.

I don't doub that @thatlatinspeakingguy has a decent grasp and for me he could be even the best player of Polonia. 

 

Anyway, for all who has taken part on this discussion, i wanted to specify, that i don't want teaching anything to anyone, i did not mean, give you the idea that i want to judje wyrd's job.

You know what i like of this game? When i flip a Rj on damage and my opponent is shocked,  when i'm to deal with a new strong combo, and i'm agitated because i don't know if i'll make win. When i'm to deal with a master that drawing more cards than mine, and i'm left here like a stupid. Or when in two different game i try to leap with first mate  and for three times in a row i flip a Rj in both games, and i outbreak to laught like an idiot!!!! (and that's what really happened last week!)

Those are the reason, for i'm opposed to nerfs. I don't know if it also the case for you too.

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Re: the power of the various draw engines - I think that aside from raw card drawing efficiency, one should consider what is being done with those cards. Usually the most potent card draw happens on the first turn and often it happens that summoning stuff is the most useful thing you can do on the first turn (limited targets for offense, limited opportunities for foiling opposing offense, and getting more total AP out of summons for the whole duration of the game the earlier you summon them). Nico's and Somer's engines are also somewhat unique in that they power further draws on subsequent turns unlike most other draw set-ups. Naturally the difference in quality between the models that Somer summons compared to what Nico summons is absolutely enormous.

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15 minutes ago, tmod said:

It is deck cycling. But Survival of the Fittest is card draw, and there is some synergy between cycling and drawing wich was why I brought Bayou 2 card up; when you can cycle through a large part of the deck you can sometimes know more of what is left, and the ability to cheat from the deck can get stronger. Also, the ability to b2c means you'll need fewer cards in hand to hit, and thus taxing your hand less => card draw makes it easier to keep those 13s in hand when really needed... No biggie either way...

OTOH Nico hands out :+flipflips like there's no tomorrow.

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18 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

You know what i like of this game? When i flip a Rj on damage and my opponent is shocked,  when i'm to deal with a new strong combo, and i'm agitated because i don't know if i'll make win. When i'm to deal with a master that drawing more cards than mine, and i'm left here like a stupid. Or when in two different game i try to leap with first mate  and for three times in a row i flip a Rj in both games, and i outbreak to laught like an idiot!!!! (and that's what really happened last week!)

Those are the reason, for i'm opposed to nerfs. I don't know if it also the case for you too.

Perhaps I've misunderstood you here, but aren't those just general conditions which can work for any crew? Flipping RJ with Lady Justice is going to give your opponent a FML moment more than flipping a RJ on a Nicodem summon. Strong combo's are for any crew and new strong combo's can only arrive if stuff changes or models get added to the game.

 

Your initial point way back at the start of the thread was about the monetary investment of players. I'd argue that stays thesame either way. Masters are not radically changed in how they are supposed to work. Colette was the biggest change with the Prompt move, but I can understand she wasn't envisioned to be used that way. If overpowered or overshadowing models get hit with nerfs, you can still play them. Yasunori got hit with +1 stone, yet he's still very popular. Levi's Channel got changed, yet he's still decent. The money people put into the game has not been wasted, unless they are "that" player who only plays crews because they are ezwinbutton fotm. You should only buy a crew if it suits you (very broad). I mean, people played Yan Lo, Lucius when they were considered to be bottom-tier and still had succes with them. I have Yan Lo and I like playing him. Does that mean I threws money away because he was trash when I bought him or did I buy a master I enjoy playing and have fun with him?

In general, nerfs are not going to change a master so radically that anyone enjoying the playstyle loses his money for that box.

 

23 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

OTOH Nico hands out :+flipflips like there's no tomorrow.

While still drawing a ton of cards :P

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2 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

These are senteces that i imagine.. not one references to Sandeep and tournaments in that post.. 😃 and i didn't look in others.. 😃 

Sorry, but I can't follow your logic. My statement was that no one argues that Sandeep should be nerfed because he wins all events. You quote people who raised the fact that he won an event here and there. Don't you see that these quotations don't invalidate my statement?

As for people who contributed to the discussion, but are no longer active as forum users - what makes you smile? Do you suspect they are part of some sort of anti-Sandeep conspiracy? Trolls paid by another company who wants to destroy the perfect balance of Malifaux? Who want to make people who invested in Sandeep quit the game? Come on, be serious. People who create an account only to post a thread on important issues are often concerned with the goodness of the game.

29 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

Anyone speak about Polonia? i didn't mention what nation. How do you know that i'm talking about this?

I know who are you talking about because I follow the discussion.

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3 minutes ago, whodares said:

In general, nerfs are not going to change a master so radically that anyone enjoying the playstyle loses his money for that box.

Yup, I doubt that adding a :ToS-Range: to Sandeep's attack will ruin him as a master.

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6 hours ago, whodares said:

I knew somebody was going to bring up the Shuffle. That list is such a gimmick it isn't even funny. It's full of weaknesses and can only win by NPE'ing new players who have barely any Malifaux experience. What I did indeed mean, as you mentioned, was that they there are no masters who can make a competitive list which can rival the card draw and efficiency of Nicodem.

I have not played with or against the shuffle, but there seems to be some players having at least some success with it. Also read about a "shuffle light" variant doing ok as well, but no first hand experience.

I don't disagree that Nico seems very strong, just bringing it up cause I felt this is a bit of a circle argument:

1. Nico is OP because he has the strongest card draw in the game.

2. Others have stronger card draw.

3. Yeah, but they don't count because they're not OP.

For what it's worth I think it's likely Nico is too strong or nearly too strong, and it'd good for the game if he was slightly adjusted. But I also think some of the arguments in favour of nerfing this or that can sometimes get very close to whining, and as I've mentioned in other threads I think that's potentially bad for the game. I have a lot of respect for the effort Wyrd puts in, so I hope they will keep hitting the mark more often than screw up. But unfounded whining, when/if present, can only cause one of two end result with regards to game balance: either it is taken into account at some level, and we risk game balance will suffer (how much of the forum perceive Colette now, though I don't think it's reasonable to asume she was nerfed due to whining), or it's completely ignored, and thus also completely pointless. A side effect of whining and entitlement is an increased risk og animosity on the forum, and thus the more the forum members complain without backing it up with data, the less pleasant the forum risks becoming.

I read the original posts in this light, and it's hard to disagree. However, many replies, from different people (including the original poster imo), have at times come across as entitled/aggressive, and thus counteracting what this thread seemed to be about. Language barriers are a real thing on a global forum like this one.

I think this forum would be a better place if we all refrained from:

1. Making demands on Wyrd, either of buffing, nerfing, or ignoring problem models, real or perceived. This is also largely a language thing: there is a huge difference between saying: "I'd like to see x" or "Wyrd must/should do x".

2. We should all accept that Wyrd will do whatever they can to make Malifaux the best it can be. It's in their best interest after all!

3. We should all refrain to engaging in influencing campaigns, where players of a given faction flood the forum in coordinated post parroting the same message. There have (imho) been hints of this in some open betas, but it hasn't been a big issue otherwise, unlile certain other forums I've frequented in the past. Let's keep it that way!

4. We should all accept that what's best for the game might not be what's best for my favourite model/faction. Conversely, we should all asume we all prefer a balanced game to a game where "my" faction has an auto win button.

We should:

1. Not hesitate with providing feedback, all experience matter. James Varney saying he believes Nico is OP would be a lot more valuable than myself having a npe against Nico, but my lowly experience is also important. But not all-important.

2. Endeavor to be constructive. Keep trying to help newbs being stomped by Nico rather than parroting that he is OP and there's nothing to be done. No master is an auto-win button (though some are certainly a lot more powerfull than others), let's nor pretend player skill is irrelevant.

3. Provide constructive feedback to Wyrd. Wyrd games have listened to the community many times before, constructive suggestions, and evidence, giving them incentive to keeping on doing so.

4. Preserve this awesome community! The Malifaux doesn't need to be fixed, it is already amazing. But we need to strive to keep it that way, and not take it for granted...

 

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