Order of damage weirdness

[Erik1978]

Howard with the well rehearsed upgrade has 4 wounds left and has been ROOTED by Lilith "If this model is pushed, remove this condition and this model suffers 3 damage".

Howard is shot, takes 3 damage from the shot, and is pushed 5" as a trigger into hazardous terrain which deals him 2 damage.

So...

1) Does Howard take 3 damage during the push from ROOTED, uses well rehearsed to survive with 1 wound, then lands in hazardous and is killed by the 2 damage?

Or

2) Howard is pushed and lands in hazardous terrain, takes 3 damage from being pushed and 2 from terrain, then uses well rehearsed to survive and stands there with 1 wound?

Or something entirely different?

[Erik1978]

So damage from push, then reduce to 0 wounds, be saved by well rehearsed, then die from hazardous?

[Clement]

20 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

So damage from push, then reduce to 0 wounds, be saved by well rehearsed, then die from hazardous?

That would do it.  It would depend on technically when the push happens as to the specifics.  Let's assume for the sake of argument that the push uses a pretty standard wording like "after damaging, push the target up to 3 inches in any direction" or "after succeeding, push the target 5 inches directly away".

1) Howard get's shot by <model> and takes 3 damage.  This occurs during step 5 of the duel that got Howard shot.

2) Howard starts to push as the trigger demands.  At this point Rooted kicks in and does 3 damage and removes itself, per the rules for running out of health, Howard is immediately "Killed".

3) Well rehearsed resolves since Howard was just killed, and he's a living model within 3 of the upgrade bearer (likely himself).  He's now considered *not* to have been killed, and heals 1 point, per Well Rehearsed.  Well rehearsed is discarded.

4)  Howard actually begins resolving the push, and enters the Hazardous terrain.

5) At the end of the movement (per FAQ 29) Howard's opponent flips for damage and gets 2 out of it.

6) Howard is dead again, and his death effects (corpse/scrap placement etc.) all resolve at the end of the push (per FAQ 29).

Edited May 18, 2018 by Clement
FAQ 29 is kind of dumb

[Tapdancer]

Don’t think you can add the two damage sources, don’t see any justification for that.

[Ludvig]

Even if it was the exact same timing point the condition damage and terrain damage are separate sources and you never lump separate sources together. 

Small technicality: I think you finish the push before applying the dangerous terrain damage.

[Morgan Vening]

3 hours ago, Clement said:

4)  Howard actually begins resolving the push, and enters the Hazardous terrain.

5) At the moment of entering, Howard's opponent flips for damage and gets 2 out of it.

6) Howard is dead again, and his death effects (corpse/scrap placement etc.) all resolve at that edge of the hazardous terrain.

I believe this part is wrong. The Rules Manual (p74) isn't completely clear, but it is interpretable that you complete the push, then resolve the damage.

The 2018 FAQ seems to indicate that this is the case. Because based on the example, Gamin A "would make a flip for Jaakuna’s aura when it finishes its movement.", and Gamin C wouldn't have to make the Lava check if it died to the Jaakuna aura.

It's not 100% ironclad, but it definitely seems that you complete the push/move, then make the checks.

Which means I don't hold much hope for the Jaakuna in the example if she's already activated. Three Ice Gamin within 2", two making two Hazardous, looks like a lot of 'splodey that ignore her Manipulative and Incorporeal.

[Clement]

15 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

I believe this part is wrong. The Rules Manual (p74) isn't completely clear, but it is interpretable that you complete the push, then resolve the damage.

The 2018 FAQ seems to indicate that this is the case. Because based on the example, Gamin A "would make a flip for Jaakuna’s aura when it finishes its movement.", and Gamin C wouldn't have to make the Lava check if it died to the Jaakuna aura.

It's not 100% ironclad, but it definitely seems that you complete the push/move, then make the checks.

Which means I don't hold much hope for the Jaakuna in the example if she's already activated. Three Ice Gamin within 2", two making two Hazardous, looks like a lot of 'splodey that ignore her Manipulative and Incorporeal.

When the heck did that FAQ happen?  that's not really even what the book says.  Oh well, updating my post.  It shouldn't effect the overall sequence.

[Morgan Vening]

1 hour ago, Clement said:

When the heck did that FAQ happen?  that's not really even what the book says.  Oh well, updating my post.  It shouldn't effect the overall sequence.

It's in the early 2017 FAQ too, so it's been around a while.