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4thstringer

Our Worst Models

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I stole this from the multipage salt thread going on in the Gremlins forum.  I love a good salt thread. I think we can all agree that the current mood in guild isn't as low as it is in Gremlins.  But I do believe there are some models that are still pretty tough to make work.  

Here are my bottom 5 models for guild

1. Governor's proxy- I'd rather just take 3 points less of models than take this model.  Besides being an activation it has no use.

2. Orderlies- at 5 pts they fit around the same spot as field reporters and watchers at 4ss.  Shame they are worse than either of those models.

3. Riflemen- the bane of every bad player, these can seem very effective when you are just starting out playing and you opponents stink.  

4. Exorcists- Mayyybe if their triggers were built in.  Their damage tracks have to be the worst for any 7 pt model.  Just bad in so many ways.

5. Mounted Guard- Now that we have seen what this could look like (kentauri and iron skeeter) they feel so so sad.  They are gimmicks at best that are hard to make do what they do.

 

I'm pretty sure there are some garbage models I'm leaving out.  Wastrels come to mind.    Same with the Guild Sarge.  There are several other early wave minions that I would love to see get a little love, but they don't approach the badness of these guys.  

Your thoughts?  Who are your current bottom 5?

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Guild sarge gave my opponent three VP for that scheme where you need a marker near two enemies the other day, I think that's all right for a 6ss model.

The proxy is still probably the worst model in the game but after all the recent guild animosty and that gremlin thread I can't complain about models with a straight face. We are the current golden gals of the game so I'll stay positive!

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3 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Guild sarge gave my opponent three VP for that scheme where you need a marker near two enemies the other day, I think that's all right for a 6ss model.

The proxy is still probably the worst model in the game but after all the recent guild animosty and that gremlin thread I can't complain about models with a straight face. We are the current golden gals of the game so I'll stay positive!

cmon, I know there is some salt in there.  GIVE IT TO ME!!

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3 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

cmon, I know there is some salt in there.  GIVE IT TO ME!!

I've been playing Marcus pretty exclusively for months now so I mostly have salt directed towards all that OP guild shit currently. :D

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17 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I've been playing Marcus pretty exclusively for months now so I mostly have salt directed towards all that OP guild shit currently. :D

Marcus is one of the masters that I have struggled the most against.  So much pain.

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Just now, 4thstringer said:

Marcus is one of the masters that I have struggled the most against.  So much pain.

I still haven't won a single game I think. I keep forgetting stupid stuff like how useless it is to turn McCabe into a beast for defensive measure when he has promises. I've had trouble adjusting to not having ranged superiority (or at least, you know, having a ranged attack in my crew) and I keep building crews that get out-activated because how can I say no to those lovely 9+ ss beasts. Slowly learning from my mistakes though, if I can get regular games in I might actually start improving soon.

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Of those five models, I use three of them on a regular basis. Orderlies are wk 6, ch 8 are unimpedid, and have a heal. They usually do better than expected in my crews. Guild Sgts give +1 walk to guardsmen, plus flips to wp duels, and can move scheme markers. Really good in the right mix. Mounted Guard aren’t quite as good as Kentauri, but accurately deliver a beater like an Executioner or Thrall, and are themselves pretty mobile and tough. 

Exorcists aren’t great.  The proxy is terrible. Pistoleros are ok, but are outshined by the new toys.  Handlers still need help, as do Death Marshalls. Honestly, though, Guild is probably the strongest it’s ever been in 2e. 

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The lack of salt is refreshing here...

... will you trade your faction's personality with mine?

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4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I still haven't won a single game I think. I keep forgetting stupid stuff like how useless it is to turn McCabe into a beast for defensive measure when he has promises. I've had trouble adjusting to not having ranged superiority (or at least, you know, having a ranged attack in my crew) and I keep building crews that get out-activated because how can I say no to those lovely 9+ ss beasts. Slowly learning from my mistakes though, if I can get regular games in I might actually start improving soon.

I'd turn McCabe into a Beast in a heartbeat, but then again, I typically use Hunger Cry, and so a triggered Shillelagh followed by Domesticate, brings him down to straight flips, meaning the second and third hits (I also take Trail, so that first attack is usually the freebie), or an Alpha can ruin his day.

As for being out activated, I don't think I've ever had that happen with Marcus (though I haven't faced Hamelin/Collodi/intentional spam). Hoarcat Prides are so awesome (4SS MinDam3 Significant Minions!) that there's often a pair of them, along with a pair of Molemen. And Cojo at 6 and the Jackalope means I've got 7 activations for less than half my SS spent. Usually I round it out with a Razorspine Tarpit, Boris the Dancing Bear and Myranda, (for 10 activations total, and I absolutely abuse the Jackalope) and a couple Upgrades. Most crews I've faced tend to be in the 7-9 model range. Is that not common in most meta?

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I've had some great success with Wastrels, but only in a McCabe crew. Outside of that I would take 1 maybe if field reporters and watchers weren't in competition at 4ss. Free defensive following only walk actions, and good use of the 2ap tactical action can be quite supportive.

I wish death marshall's were a bit better, I used them heavily at the start but they just don't compare to other options at the moment.

 

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1 hour ago, Antipodean said:

I wish death marshall's were a bit better, I used them heavily at the start but they just don't compare to other options at the moment.

 

They're kind of a one trick pony. Their trick is really good, but you can see the general trend in 2nd ed has been towards versatility and that's sort of left them behind.

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8 hours ago, Flinroz said:

The lack of salt is refreshing here...

... will you trade your faction's personality with mine?

I thank the tendency not to shorten everything to acronyms on the guild boards. That stuff is just hate-speech!

😀

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Thanks @Morgan Vening , I was talking about attacking someone else and just using Feral on McCabe to make him not able to counter charge. Didn't really work out. My lists usually start with Myranda, Rogue Necromancy, Cerberus, often a blessed of december as well. That's a bit over 40ss with upgrades included. ;) 

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6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Thanks @Morgan Vening , I was talking about attacking someone else and just using Feral on McCabe to make him not able to counter charge. Didn't really work out. My lists usually start with Myranda, Rogue Necromancy, Cerberus, often a blessed of december as well. That's a bit over 40ss with upgrades included. ;) 

If you're going that route, might I suggest Owl, Move to within 8" if needed, Feral, Domesticate, Alpha, 3 Actions McCabe, Dismount such that McCabe is engaged with either Marcus or a better a Rattler (or both), then the following turn, Owl, Feral, Domesticate, Alpha, Law of Meat, 3 pointless actions of McCabe, Desperate Gamble. Because that'd be awesome.

And yeah, four big beasties is bad for Activation control. Drop one (because Myranda can be what you want, for 2 Hoarcats, and the Jackelope. Seriously, I can't recommend the Hoarcats enough. 

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Are we allowed to take the Governors Proxy multiple times? 😛

 

Although I agree on Exorcists, they seem super lackluster in everything they are supposed to do, even in fighting the undead...

 

Sergeants were good models in GG17 and still have a trick or two to play in 18 but with the new "Super Minions" at their price class I find myself not taking one currently.

 

Mounted Guard seem to have the same problem - 1stone less = other good minion, 1stone more = really good henchman.

Also, as you said, their place is quite conditional - I don`t think they are weak though, others are just better (as weird as that sounds, I lack better words to describe their current status :/)

 

Rifleman lack a way to get out of combat and are squishy once they get stuck in there, they are very dependant on a special activation order imo, but also, not bad models - just not the best and really not flexible at all^^

 

Orderlies are just outshined by Watchers and Field Reporters, or again, our new 6stone Minions, the heal is nice but they don`t fit their "role" as good as the others (that price bracket it`s mostly being a scheme runner).

 

Wastrels have some nice synergies with McCabe, but I hate that they are so squishy...

 

Death Marshals would be fine if they had one more wound, I think we had a whole thread dedicatetd to them already 😛

 

 

There are some other models I´m not a huge fan of, namely Wardens, Hunters, Ryle, Sidir to just name a few of the top of my head, but I think some of that is also playstyle dependant and overall we as a faction seem fine after wave 5 upgrades and models :)

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15 hours ago, Flinroz said:

The lack of salt is refreshing here...

... will you trade your faction's personality with mine?

*pictures Guildies hootin’, hollerin’, and drinking on duty*

*pictures Gremlins parading in ranks, bearing ‘The Gremlin-General is watching YOU’ placards*

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@Morgan Vening

Damn, can't believe I didn't alpha McCabe! Thanks for that. :D It would have been pretty handy to take back the upgrades he had thrown out as well.

I haven't finished both hoarcats yet but I'm working on them.

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18 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

*pictures Guildies hootin’, hollerin’, and drinking on duty*

*pictures Gremlins parading in ranks, bearing ‘The Gremlin-General is watching YOU’ placards*

We aren't supposed to be drinking on duty?  Uh Oh.

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26 minutes ago, Tris said:

Are we allowed to take the Governors Proxy multiple times? 😛

Although I agree on Exorcists, they seem super lackluster in everything they are supposed to do, even in fighting the undead...

 Sergeants were good models in GG17 and still have a trick or two to play in 18 but with the new "Super Minions" at their price class I find myself not taking one currently.

 Mounted Guard seem to have the same problem - 1stone less = other good minion, 1stone more = really good henchman.

Also, as you said, their place is quite conditional - I don`t think they are weak though, others are just better (as weird as that sounds, I lack better words to describe their current status :/)

 Rifleman lack a way to get out of combat and are squishy once they get stuck in there, they are very dependant on a special activation order imo, but also, not bad models - just not the best and really not flexible at all^^

Orderlies are just outshined by Watchers and Field Reporters, or again, our new 6stone Minions, the heal is nice but they don`t fit their "role" as good as the others (that price bracket it`s mostly being a scheme runner).

Wastrels have some nice synergies with McCabe, but I hate that they are so squishy...

Death Marshals would be fine if they had one more wound, I think we had a whole thread dedicatetd to them already 😛

There are some other models I´m not a huge fan of, namely Wardens, Hunters, Ryle, Sidir to just name a few of the top of my head, but I think some of that is also playstyle dependant and overall we as a faction seem fine after wave 5 upgrades and models :)

If the Orderlies heal was a 1 action (and I am firmly of the belief that heal actions are rarely useful if that is all they do) then they would be usable.  There are almost no 2 actions in the game that are actually useable (the watcher being one of the main exceptions)

I agree with your list of not a fan models, death marshalls would be in that category for me. 

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10 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

If the Orderlies heal was a 1 action (and I am firmly of the belief that heal actions are rarely useful if that is all they do) then they would be usable.  There are almost no 2 actions in the game that are actually useable (the watcher being one of the main exceptions)

I agree with your list of not a fan models, death marshalls would be in that category for me. 

Death Marshals just got their own sentence because I think there is a fix we could easily try for them -> +1wound.

other than that, they are also on my "not a fan" list 😛

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17 minutes ago, Tris said:

Death Marshals just got their own sentence because I think there is a fix we could easily try for them -> +1wound.

other than that, they are also on my "not a fan" list 😛

+1 wound wouldn't change them enough for me tbh.

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9 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

+1 wound wouldn't change them enough for me tbh.

Yeah, they are still in a position where their main thing (the bury) is either too strong or too weak and there`s no easy way to fix that right now. (a 2" range on the coffin would be the only thing I can immediately think off)

But at 7wds at least their Hard to Wound would finally matter a little more.

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Death marshals dying easily isn't a problem if you are going for Set Up.  Run up to the model, let them kill you, Finish the Job, Profit!

But seriously, IMO models that are really garbage are Guild Rifleman, Pathfinder, Warden, Governor's Proxy, Captain Dashel. Exorcists, Pale Rider

 

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4 minutes ago, jchrisobrien said:

Death marshals dying easily isn't a problem if you are going for Set Up.  Run up to the model, let them kill you, Finish the Job, Profit!

But seriously, IMO models that are really garbage are Guild Rifleman, Pathfinder, Warden, Governor's Proxy, Captain Dashel. Exorcists, Pale Rider

  

Wow, I would have never put pathfinders on that list.  Then again I haven't run one in forever.

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Personal bias.  I don't use them often, and when I do they are always dead by turn two  Clearly I need more practice with From the Shadows!

Warden's aren't garbage per se, but really underwhelming.  I would take any other Henchman over Dashel, including Samuel!

Most of the wave 1 and 2 models are "OK" just showing their age. 

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