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Faitfull

Starting Malifaux, help getting started with Kaeris :-)

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Hi

I was so lucky to win a gift card to a figure shop. so finally able to afford a way into malifaux!

I have been thinking on starting a kaeris crew, my first crew for malifaux yay!

However after the kaeris box, I am unsure about what to get in addition to her the models in her box.

Carlos, gunsmith and so look interesting. However would a second crew box be a better buy of some kind? like Ironsides or Mai?

Want to try out a burning game somehow

Thanks for all the help

Best regards

Benjamin

 

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There isn't a "best buy" per say, the actual answer depends alot on you and how you play. 

If your play group are new, then you may well find that you are playing smaller games, and the crew box is fine for that. If locally you have an established group then you will probably find they are playing 50 ss games, so you will want to buy enough to be able to field a 50 ss list as a priority. I think the Kaeris box tops out at 29 ss, so you will want to make your first purchase one of at least 21 ss worth. 

So if you just want to make 1 purchase to get to 50 stones, then you are probably best buying another master box to get there. 

Of the master boxes that you might want to support a burning theme I would suggest Ramos, or Ironsides. Mei feng is ok, but because you can't hire Kang in a Kaeris crew, the box only gets you 3 rail workers for Kaeris which still isn't enough to field a 50 ss list. (You could field a 500 ss Mei feng list that is burning based if that interests you). Ramos has a good box for models that lots of otehr crews make use of, from the hard hitting Howard, to the durable Joss and the cheap and plentiful steam arachnids, so owning that provides a good range of models to adapt your crew. Also it provides a good way to use the powered by flame upgrade which lets constructs add burning on successful attacks. 

That leads me into my suggested purchases - The Upgrade deck - generalist upgrades deck 1 is a great purchase for Arcanists, giving you access to lot of different upgrade to add to your crew. The downside is the box has upgrades for all 7 factions, but I think it is a really worthwhile purchase for maximising your options in game. (And if you know others who are startign up, you might be able to split a box with them or your locals may have a spare set of the arcanist upgrades they don't need). Generalist upgrades 2 is les useful for arcanists than some factions, but thats because Arcanists probably get the most from the first upgrade deck. I would still look to get it relatively early. There is also the Broken Promises upgrade deck that provides 2 new upgrades for each master. I would wait a while before you get this unless you really want to try out those new upgrades for your master, because you are going to start off only able to use the 2 kaeris upgrades.

 

Individual modles that can work in Kaeris crews include (These are my views and how I use them, you might not find them as helpful)

Union Miners - I find them one of the best ways to get burning on models. 

Malifaux Raptors - When I'm using the Grab and drop upgrade, these are great scheme runners (once on fire)

Malifaux child - a popular way to set things on fire

Carlos - A good source of fire, he works with Kaeris in many ways, depending on how you have upgraded her. 

Arcane effigy - A good minion, that helps Kaeris hand out burning. 

Gunsmiths - If you are setting everything on fire, these can get good. Some people think the setting on fire effort isn't worth the pay back from these, but if you are setting on fire anyway, then they are well worth a look. 

 

 

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Just play a couple of games with your crew box and get a feeling for the models and playstyle. Then figure out how you want your gaming experience to change / evolve and then buy models accordingly.

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51 minutes ago, Adran said:

You could field a 500 ss Mei feng list that is burning based if that interests you

not sure if that is a typo but that sounds like a LARGE battle adran 😅

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19 minutes ago, Thottbot said:

not sure if that is a typo but that sounds like a LARGE battle adran 😅

Wait don't you all play Malifaux massed battle as well? 

Seismic claws works a lot better if you have that many models on the field...

(whats most annoying is I caught myself the first time I wrote it and corrected it to 50 ss and had a small chuckle to myself about a 500 ss game)

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so far, thanks for all the nice answers. Adran in perticular 🙂 keep the advice comming

how do you guys feel about the stuff in the ironside crew box? do kindof like the idea of having a mellee master for when i want it to be different.

that said. how well does ramos liltle spiders harmonate with kaeris?

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Ironsides is great, personally I think she's our most fun Master so I'm a bit biased there though :P 

As far as hires, it really depends on which Limited ends up feeling the best for you.  The best hires for Purifying Fire Kaeris are pretty different from Heat Wave Kaeris or Grab & Drop Kaeris, so the best thing you can do is try them all out, see which one you like the most, and then go from there.

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Oxfordian mages have become really popular thanks to their temporary shielding upgrade making them cost 5ss each if you buy 3. They have trigger to add burning on their main attack, so they can help set the enemy on  fire and manipulate the board positions. Captain has recently been errata'd to be cheaper, and a reasonable mix of hitting things, moving things and not dying.

 

Spiders don't hit very hard, but what they do is lower the DF of enemies in base contact with them, so make it easier for most other hitters. They are also relatively fast and durable for their cost, so good to send off on their own to achieve VPs by doing schemes and so forth. 

 

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2 hours ago, retnab said:

Ironsides is great, personally I think she's our most fun Master so I'm a bit biased there though :P 

As far as hires, it really depends on which Limited ends up feeling the best for you.  The best hires for Purifying Fire Kaeris are pretty different from Heat Wave Kaeris or Grab & Drop Kaeris, so the best thing you can do is try them all out, see which one you like the most, and then go from there.

dont worry, for me the most important part of a game is not the competive part, but the fun part. I would much rather have a fun match where both me and my opponent had fun, than something I would go home thinking, this I can win a turnament with.

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Pro's and con's for the Ironsides vs Ramos box

Ramos
+ Joss, an incredible tank and pretty heavy hitter, and he is an M&SU henchman so he can carry important upgrades (like powered by flame)
+ Howard, probably one of the most singularly terrifying Arcanist beaters. He is sort of a glass cannon, meaning if you use him poorly he likely won't see turn 3
+ Spiders, spiders, and more spiders. As singles, they are cheap and tough minions that can run away and score you points. As a swarm, they are an incredibly under-appreciated model with very consistent damage, and one of the best anti-schemers in the faction
- Nothing in his box specifically synergizes with burning, unless you use the powered by flame upgrade. But many people would say you don't need that much burning in a Kaeris crew

Ironsides
+ The Captain, another M&SU henchman. Not nearly as tanky as Joss, but has a similar damage track (works better against some crews, worse against others), and can provide mobility by pushing your crew around, or throw out cover for things to hide behind. He can do a small amount of burning as triggers on most of his abilities
+ Oxfordian Mages, probably the most commonly complained about model by anyone not playing them. For their point cost, they are excellent. 
- With the Kaeris + Ironsides combo, you have very few models willing to get up in the middle of your enemy's crew. The Captain seems like the only melee model, and he is not terribly hard to kill. Ramos' box gives you two great melee beaters, that can play well with literally any other Arcanist master. 

Aside from that, Ramos and Ironsides are both very fun masters to play, you can't really go wrong with either one

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couple of good things IMO (which alot dont agree with) for kaeris are gunsmiths, willie and kandara. also want a beater of some sort like carlos or joss (so ramos box) or maybe the upcoming fire golem from the story encounter depending on what it does.

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3 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said:

+ Howard, probably one of the most singularly terrifying Arcanist beaters. He is sort of a glass cannon, meaning if you use him poorly he likely won't see turn 3

Hell, even if you use him awesome a lot of times Howard doesn't make it to see turn three but then again neither do a few of your opponent's models.

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hmmm... thinking of doing the following

Kaeris crew box.

That will get me:

Kaeris

The firestarter

3 firegemins

the eternal flame

then perhaps add the following:

Carlos (tank that are happy for fire)

Gunsmith box

perhaps some union minors?

 

or go

Kaeris + a addition crew box. I know many say that Ramos crew box is good addition. However cannot stop considering Toni Ironside or Mai

 

Am I doing it wrong?

 

Edit: found this about the Fire Golem

https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2018/3/26/monday-preview-fire-golem

Sounds really nice to Kaeris...! any idea about when it will hit the shelves and what kind of realworld money it is going to cost?

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4 hours ago, Faitfull said:

hmmm... thinking of doing the following

Kaeris crew box.

That will get me:

Kaeris

The firestarter

3 firegemins

the eternal flame

then perhaps add the following:

Carlos (tank that are happy for fire)

Gunsmith box

perhaps some union minors?

 

or go

Kaeris + a addition crew box. I know many say that Ramos crew box is good addition. However cannot stop considering Toni Ironside or Mai

 

Am I doing it wrong?

 

Edit: found this about the Fire Golem

https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2018/3/26/monday-preview-fire-golem

Sounds really nice to Kaeris...! any idea about when it will hit the shelves and what kind of realworld money it is going to cost?

That box is supposed to come out next month and will likely cost $60, you will only be able to buy the whole box (Arcanist: Fitzsimmons, 2 Sabateurs, and the Fire Golem, as well as the 4 Gremlin models), meaning you'll probably want to find a Gremlin player to split it with. But every Arcanist model in that box sounds purpose built to make Kaeris good. We have no actual rules for them as of yet though

Also, between Mei and Ironsides, go with Ironsides, no question

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7 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Hell, even if you use him awesome a lot of times Howard doesn't make it to see turn three but then again neither do a few of your opponent's models.

Very good point. Howard is pretty amazing at removing models from the table, the trick is removing enough to make him worth his cost

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13 minutes ago, Faitfull said:

So would you recommend kaeris plus ironside or kaeris plus Carlos and gunsmiths as My first buy 

My vote would be for Ironsides if those are the choices. Gunsmiths would be way down on my buy list as a new player.

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38 minutes ago, Faitfull said:

So would you recommend kaeris plus ironside or kaeris plus Carlos and gunsmiths as My first buy 

I agree with @WWHSD. I added it up the other day, I'm missing about a dozen models from the whole Arcanist faction, and have done just fine without Gunsmiths. Ironsides' box is a far better purchase 

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Thanks for the answers.

Cannot however stop feeling there is something I somehow have missed out on.

For a little stupid thought. I do love female models! A little sad I know

And again sorry that this noob I am, keep taking your time so much! Your help so far is really a big help!

Lets expand the posibilities a bit.

Ramos box comes with alot of goodies. But I worry if it have a good feel of synergy with Kaeris. I really love the feeling of everything comming together into a synergy.

Some people have pointed out that the union miners can do great stuff for kaeris, I am not that fond of the models. However would it still be heavy recommended?

The reason I get bringing the gunsmith up, is proberly a bit stupid. The reason is i really like the models look. And have a crazy idea that they might synergies well with kaeris. I might be very wrong offcourse.

Dont know about willie. he seems like fire all day long. Dislike the model. so perhaps in that case, see if I can get miss fire instead if that is a good choise.

So I will try to be more openminded now. So please, what would you recommendation be. I will order Kaeris saterday, given that I have a gift card to a shop, that gives a discount there given it is the shops birthsday. And if there is a must get model I forgot to mention. Let me know

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31 minutes ago, Faitfull said:

Thanks for the answers.

Cannot however stop feeling there is something I somehow have missed out on.

And again sorry that this noob I am, keep taking your time so much! Your help so far is really a big help!

Lets expand the posibilities a bit.

Ramos box comes with alot of goodies. But I worry if it have a good feel of sinergy with Kaeris. I really love the feeling of everything comming together into a synergi.

Some people have pointed out that the union miners can do great stuff for kaeris, I am not that fond of the models. However would it still be heavy recommended?

The reason I get bringing the gunsmith up, is proberly a bit stupid. The reason is i really like the models look. And have a crazy idea that they might synergise well with kaeris. I might be very wrong offcourse.

Dont know about willie. he seems like fire all day long. Dislike the model. so perhaps in that case, see if I can get miss fire instead if that is a good choise.

So I will try to be more openminded now. So please, what would you recommendation be. I will order Kaeris Saterday, given that I have a gift card to a shop, that gives a discount there given it is the shops birthsday

I think a problem a lot of people have with Kaeris is that they try and force the Burning synergy. They pass up good models to bring models that can either apply Burning or that gets some benefit from Burning. They then spend a lot of effort in game trying to setup their Burning combos instead of either doing things that score points or directly kill models. 

In my opinion, neither Willie or the Union Miners bring anything to a Kaeris crew that she can't do without. If you don't like those models definitely skip them. I don't think you'll really miss them.

I don't think that the Gunsmith's are all that great but some people like them with Kaeris and Ironsides. They are a little expensive (in soul stones) for what you get out of them compared to other options (Oxfordian Mages). However, if you think the models look badass then you should get them. 

I tend to recommend that new players get a second master to complement their first master. Most masters in Malifaux can't do everything and one of the defining features of Malifaux is that you decide on your master and crew after knowing what your objectives are, how the board is laid out, and what faction your opponent is playing. Starting with a pair of masters instead of just one gives you some options.

If you like Carlos and the Gunsmiths by all means pick them up. If you are just learning the game and not playing competitively you should get models that you like and are excited to paint and put on the table. 
 

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@WWHSD thank you for the Quick answer. It is solid advice.

What master crew box would you recommend to compliment kaeris? If more than one, a prioritet list like 1 2 3 perhaps? 

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Gunsmith's do indeed have strong synergies with Kaeris, but are held back by a poor damage track, which is a severe drawback in a model that's mainly in your crew as a damage dealer. Generally, I find that rather than being a good model that becomes great when I manage to line up all their synergies, they feel more like a poor one that becomes good if everything aligns.

In terms of synergy with Kaeris, very few arcanist models actually have burning synergies, and when they do it tends to be overly complicated, so a lot of the synergies are less direct. The scheme marker placement from Grab and Drop is at it's most effective with cheap fast models like Wind Gamin or Raptors which can start their activation near Kaeris, move 10-15", and then drop a scheme marker at the end of their move, but fire Gamin with their Wk5 are adequate in this role.

One thing Kaeris lacks in her crew box, but usually wants in her crew, is a heavy damage dealer, being at her best an average damage dealer, and more commonly mediocre. This would be the main benefit of the Ramos box which contains two heavy damage dealers, but Ironsides also comes with a hard-hitting henchman. I've found Shaster Vidaya Guard are also pretty good damage dealers, and have some synergy with Kaeris through their ability to draw a card when they cheat fate, which you can use when Kaeris sets them on fire for her support abilities.

My own inclination would be to go with Ironsides over Ramos since there's quite a lot of overlap between the steam arachnids and the fire gamin, whilst the oxfordian mages fill a slightly different niche being slightly higher in SS cost.

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51 minutes ago, Faitfull said:

@WWHSD thank you for the Quick answer. It is solid advice.

What master crew box would you recommend to compliment kaeris? If more than one, a prioritet list like 1 2 3 perhaps? 

I’d probably go with either Ramos or Ironsides depending which you like the looks of more.

Joss & Howard from the Ramos box see play with just about evey arcanist master. From the Ironsides box, the trio of Mages are probably the best option for ranged damage for their cost in the faction and The Captain brings some good damage and some pushes that can be used on friendly or enemy models.

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