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4thstringer

Guild in the competitive scene right now

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So, I'm far removed from the competitive scene but I'd imagine that guild has seen considerable changes from wave 5  and the errata.  What are you seeing or playing in competitive guild lists right now?

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The Jury is very popular now, almost Francisco level.  Investigators are really good, you will see a lot more at the end of this month.  I haven't seen other people using monster hunters yet (again, no model) but you definitely will.  Quellers aren't as multi-purpose as the other models but they will be popular against Ressurs and Neverborn.

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I´m starting to dislike that the Jury has no htk, but she`s definitely one of our top models for 8 stones (tbh, we got some pretty solid henches in that bracket^^) and has an easy heal and condition remove on a very strong base model, coupled with slow and card draw on her attack.

Investigators and Quellers are imo the best minions out of book 5, with the Monster Hunters close, but still behind. But the first two give us so many cool tricks now and are even very solid models all by themselves that I can hardly imagine a list where I wouldn`t take at least one of these two.

Our best masters atm are imo Nellie, Lady J, Sonnia, Lucius, but it´s nice to see that the gap has closed - I´m quite sure Perdita, Hoffman, McCabe and even McMourning got tricks of their own, It´s just that I´m not a big fan of Perdita myself and never get the right "feel" out of a Hoffman or McCabe list, it`s, as always, personal preference :)

 

As for the competetive scene overall, I think we can mess with the best now, and that with a wider variety of masters as ever, so I have the impression that we are in a good spot.

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3 minutes ago, Tris said:

I´m starting to dislike that the Jury has no htk, but she`s definitely one of our top models for 8 stones (tbh, we got some pretty solid henches in that bracket^^) and has an easy heal and condition remove on a very strong base model, coupled with slow and card draw on her attack.

Investigators and Quellers are imo the best minions out of book 5, with the Monster Hunters close, but still behind. But the first two give us so many cool tricks now and are even very solid models all by themselves that I can hardly imagine a list where I wouldn`t take at least one of these two.

Our best masters atm are imo Nellie, Lady J, Sonnia, Lucius, but it´s nice to see that the gap has closed - I´m quite sure Perdita, Hoffman, McCabe and even McMourning got tricks of their own, It´s just that I´m not a big fan of Perdita myself and never get the right "feel" out of a Hoffman or McCabe list, it`s, as always, personal preference :)

 

As for the competetive scene overall, I think we can mess with the best now, and that with a wider variety of masters as ever, so I have the impression that we are in a good spot.

Just seeing lucius in that top bracket makes me happy.

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4 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Just seeing lucius in that top bracket makes me happy.

I think there are some pools where the ability to interact while being engaged is very good :)

It may be a corner case, but it's his alone ^^

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With Monster Hunter, Thralls and Quellers available i rate Lucius one of the top Guild Masters at the moment. Between very good  staying and hitting Power, basically a free pass for interacts and various movement tricks, dim bulb ads a devastating condition possibility. His variability and board controll makes him a strong contester for almost every scemepool. 

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I dig me some Lucius. He is one of my favorite Guild masters to play. There are some strategies- Supply Wagons and Symbols of Authority- he is just really, really good at and he is also really good at any of the interact up close schemes as well. He may not be the top master but as above he is in my top 4 for Guild and he is probably my favorite to play whether in a "competitive" game or a fun game.

The Queller is another model mentioned above that I really like as well. It is almost an auto-include for me also. The ability to make it where two non-masters a turn cannot have their damage reduced is amazing. Every opposing crew may not have armor but being able to shut down the other things that reduce damage (Incorporeal, Damage Prevention Flips) as well is really nice (the look on your opponents face when you tell them they can't stone away the damage from your Enchanted Peacekeeper is priceless). And ven against lists without a lot of SS users, incorporeal, or armored models with Restraining Wand he can potentially put a couple of their key models on (-) flips for their attack duels until he activates again. Just a really good, solid, model that continually puts in work for me. 

I am not a Jury fan though.....yeah, yeah, yeah....I got it there is a lot of text on her card....when I first saw her I thought the discard aura for +Masks was really cool but in practice not near as great as I thought initially. Her Flail is cool and her (0) is pretty good too but as mentioned above the lack of HtK just really puts me off. Typically I run Frank and Phiona ahead of her for my Henchmen of choice and with Htk and Armor (w/upgrades) they are there for the duration and with a little healing are hard to take down without putting some dedicated firepower against them. My third choice for a beater Henchman is often the Judge even though he takes a lot of heat/hate from others- with Htk, Armor (LLC) he is really survivable as well and his Stand For Judgement is awesome as well. I usually get a lot out of his triggers also for multiple attacks. Typically though I will just run Frank and Phiona as my Henchman beaters of choice and then opt for Allison Dade, an Executioner, Ryle, or a Peacekeeper if I need another big model. In a Lucius crew Allison, a PK, and a Doppleganger hand out quite a bit of slow and some good damage to boot

Honorable mention goes to the Guild Guard as well. They take a lot of hate too but I almost always have two of them in every list I play- cheap activations, expendable chaff, Def. 6 when near each other, walking SS banks for Lucius, scheme marker droppers, I always get mileage out of them. A lot of people also don't like them because of the Sh and MI 4 but even with that I get tons of use out of them. Most opponents have something they can still hit without a whole lot of support and it is oh so satisfying when they are putting in the damage (a point or two at a time) and arresting key low defense models of your opponent.

They list goes on and on but that at least gives enough for someone to take cheap shots at. 🙂 

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Prevention isn't damage reduction. The Queller didn't stop this. But Amor, Arcane Shild, Stilts and so on.

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14 minutes ago, Tors said:

Prevention isn't damage reduction. The Queller didn't stop this. But Amor, Arcane Shild, Stilts and so on.

^This!

Prevention =/= Reduction, you have to keep an eye open for that :)

But while you're at it, just take a look at all the other abilities and triggers in the game that say "reduce by or to", there's actually a lot of them and they hide sometimes in hidden places (Collodis personal puppet/decoy for example), so there's still a lot to ignore for us ;)

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I see Jury in nearly every list. My worst experience so far was against Lucius with Jury and Austringer. He burned my entire hand in 2 activations every single turn :P FeelsBadMan.

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10 hours ago, whodares said:

I see Jury in nearly every list. My worst experience so far was against Lucius with Jury and Austringer. He burned my entire hand in 2 activations every single turn :P FeelsBadMan.

That is pretty sick.

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9 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

That is pretty sick.

One of my iron chef games I ran that to deplete hands, then charged the executioner in.  My opponent had a hand of all face cards that I made him discard, then chopped off brewys head.  If it weren't for Wesley it would have basically been gg at that point.

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20 hours ago, Tors said:

Prevention isn't damage reduction. The Queller didn't stop this. But Amor, Arcane Shild, Stilts and so on.

 

19 hours ago, Tris said:

^This!

Prevention =/= Reduction, you have to keep an eye open for that :)

But while you're at it, just take a look at all the other abilities and triggers in the game that say "reduce by or to", there's actually a lot of them and they hide sometimes in hidden places (Collodis personal puppet/decoy for example), so there's still a lot to ignore for us ;)

 

P. 47 in the BRB- "the model may spend a Soulstone to make a damage prevention flip. The player flip a single card, which cannot be cheated, and reduces the damage according to the following table:".....A lot of people seem to get caught up by the title (Damage Prevention) but the text clearly states "reduce"...... therefore the Queller would stop the damage reduction from a damage prevention flip. It would not stop something like a Terracotta's ability which says prevent. 

However, I se in the FAQ it does indeed say that stones can be used. Based on the clear verbiage in the rulebook I would think that FAQ was in error but after having seen that I will play it as it indicates. 

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Sonnia has felt really powerful to me in the few games I have played, but I don't know that that has travelled over to competitive play.  I know from listening to Flippin Wyrds that Nellie is still the main master for their guild guy.

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49 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Sonnia has felt really powerful to me in the few games I have played, but I don't know that that has travelled over to competitive play.  I know from listening to Flippin Wyrds that Nellie is still the main master for their guild guy.

As I said above, Sonnia is imo not a viable solo master for every game, but in the right pool, on the right table, against the right opponent she's a force to be reckoned with. :)

Her board control is great and ca 9 keeps surprising me over and over again, it's just a different feel to have an agressive stat that high^^

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9 minutes ago, Tris said:

As I said above, Sonnia is imo not a viable solo master for every game, but in the right pool, on the right table, against the right opponent she's a force to be reckoned with. :)

 Her board control is great and ca 9 keeps surprising me over and over again, it's just a different feel to have an agressive stat that high^^

What kinds of pools or tables do you not like her in?

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Not sure what Sonnia can't handle. She has been soloed before and won pretty big events. With all the scheming models available to guild she seems viable still.

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1 hour ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

Tim de Groot soloed Sonnia at Polish Nationals and finished on 15th place - definitely not too bad.

Do you know the list/lists?

Thanks!

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12 hours ago, longfanz said:

Do you know the list/lists?

Thanks!

Not sure if he was playing one list, but that's possible. The list that he used to completely obliterate my crew was something like that: Sonnia with some upgrades, Francisco with something and Expert Sleuth, Dr Grimwell with Expert Sleuth, Papa Loco, Guild "Nerf, please" Investigator, Effigy, Watcher, ?something more?. As you can probably tell, the list was build to capitalize on the fact that with Investigator you don't have to spend a single AP on Walk Action with Sonnia and with double Sleuth you are going to win the initiative on turn two. As a result, I was wiped out from the table around turn three and lost 0:9. But the list is so Sonnia-centric that if something goes wrong the game can be one-sided also for a Guilld player - and thus two rounds later my brother defeated Tim 10:1. Karma.

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13 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Not sure what Sonnia can't handle. She has been soloed before and won pretty big events. With all the scheming models available to guild she seems viable still.

 

14 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

What kinds of pools or tables do you not like her in?

I would say that she still struggles a little on mobility based games. Stake a claim was always the worse game to use her in. I think that Supply wagons might be tough, and head hunter requires some thought on what you target. She can certainly still do them, but you need the crew to cover her

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10 minutes ago, Adran said:

 

I would say that she still struggles a little on mobility based games. Stake a claim was always the worse game to use her in. I think that Supply wagons might be tough, and head hunter requires some thought on what you target. She can certainly still do them, but you need the crew to cover her

I was assuming gg18, haven't seen stake a claim used in an event in over a year. Supply wagons hasn't been super tough on my ap, a trio of guild hounds will get it done in standard deployment while the rest of your crew tries to decimate the opponent. She might need to get creative in corner wagons but that would be true for a lot of masters?

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12 minutes ago, Sybarite said:

A trio of guild hounds for 6 inches turn one? Thats not very good. 

In standard deployment you need to move the marker exactly 12" before the end of turn 2 to score full strat points all game. Sonnia often wants to activate late turn one to blast at anything with the audacity to move too far up and to do that lots of players take guild hounds for padding, I don't see how those two functions can't be combined?

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22 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

In standard deployment you need to move the marker exactly 12" before the end of turn 2 to score full strat points all game. Sonnia often wants to activate late turn one to blast at anything with the audacity to move too far up and to do that lots of players take guild hounds for padding, I don't see how those two functions can't be combined?

I'd add that usually in my games Papa has little to do in early turns besides handing out his buff.

I find mobility based things tough for sonnia, but having grimwell and the watcher would help with that some.

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