Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Pergli

NB Lucius - Trying to figure him out

Recommended Posts

Hey guys, i'm trying to figure out Lucius with neverborn. I was told he wasn't very strong and coming from Nicodem to this is going to be a massive overhaul to my way of thinking and playing the game.

I'm looking for any tips/tricks or cool combos that can be done. I've wrote up a few of ideas of what has been going back and forth recently in my mind for solid list building. Writing it down helps my thought process with this and if anyone has experience or better ideas/suggestions, please fill me in. 

Also, is there a neverborn FB group like there is for the other factions?

Henchmen + Enforcers

- Master Queeg looks situational with allows models to interact for 0 (ply for information or some scheme pools).
- I know people love the Doppelgänger but i'm not sold on her with this crew. Just not sure whose abilities I'd like to take again other than maybe a beckoner but I can just use Lucius to accomplish this same idea without spending an extra 7 stones. 
- Emmissary might be fun. With all the pushes and his 0, it can cause a ton of walk duels and if you go minion heavy, the extra + flip can be extremely useful. Plus summoning changlings for more activation control sounds like fun.  10 points is a heavy investment but maybe not if its your only hechman/enforcer.

I'm probably going to be focusing more on minions since that is where Lucius' strength lies. 

Guardsmen

Investigator - I think these might be an always include for me. Free card draw + scheme/scrap/corpse removal is always solid. Allowing free pushes off the drops is also amazing especially since its once per activation. I could make a long list of all the various utilities i've thought about for this model with it's various pushes but suffice to say that it is probably one of the best models for board control. 
Austringer - I'm not 100% sold on this model but a 12 sh7 that requires no LOS and ignores cover is solid. Hide him behind a building and take pot shots at everything with no reprecussions. Also, you can completely drain an opponents hand on the first activation forcing them to change their plan to react to not having any resources is extremely powerful. Top that off with direct orders for the various schemes/strats or even the bultungin, it is almost an auto include for me.
Guild Guard - Cheap filler units who are not insignificant and are df6 when other guilds guard are nearby. I think you have to take 3 to make this worth anything but that limits the options above.
Guild Hounds - Also cheap filler units but are going to most likely be insignificant unless you bring more hounds. Their 1 ap charge when there are schemes can combo nicely. Especially with lucius using his ability to push them 3 inches and letting them take another 1ap charge. Not sure how useful or powerful it is but it sounds hilariously annoying.

Brilliance

Illuminated - I'm thinking 2 of these are going to be a staple in every list. They are solid models who can tank a ton of damage. Armor + regen + 0 heal means they will take punishment and be able to continue doing what needs to be done. Combining with the beckoner giving out brilliance, their damage spread becomes ml6 4/6/7 which is absurd for a 7 minion.
Beckoner - Obviously pulls models into pounce range, illuminated charge range or hands out brilliance. Also a mimic which can help keep Lucius alive and my list runs very few mimics/guardsmen so this helps.

Fae

Bultungin - Probably another solidly powerful model to come out of wave 5 for this crew but not so much for anyone else (That I can tell). I doubt opponents will drop scheme markers within LOS of him but you have plenty of ways to get free attacks out of him. Investigator pushing him off drops, Austringer with deliver order and Lucius with Issue command (a 2AP attack and a 1AP attack for 1 master AP sounds solid) are the reliable ways I can see this going off in this crew. I'm sure there are others but something that pushes your own models is what is needed for this.
Rougarou - Pounce also combos really well with this list and the fact that it can eat your abundant scheme markers to heal is a plus. Honestly, I have an issue with having too many scheme markers so I can't place more, this can help with that. 
The Claw - My top out of the 3 Autumn knight minions. Winter spear gives you a range threat and can drop schemes in base which again, combo for healing, lucius attacks or the investigator. Also has a 0 which can push models for extra pounce attacks.
The Thorn - 0 push plus placing a scheme marker in base like the other fae. It's melee can give card draw which is always a positive in my opinion but the damage spread is low.

Mimics

I don't really see any power with any of the current mimic choices.
Terracotta warrior - a 6 cost minion with 4 wounds. Sure, it can help with Lucius stone cycling but I don't think it's worth it.
Vogel - i'm not sold on with this crew. Seems like fun if you go with a bunch of beasts but the beast that comes out is an enforcer so its not as useful with Lucius.
Changlings - okay if you have the points for them or summon them but I can't seem to find the points for them. 
Guild Lawyers - Probably meh, barely looked at them. Fees might be interesting but I think the points are better elsewhere.

 

Pretty much where I've ended up with my train of thought. I'm sure there are models i'm not considering which may have some use or cool tricks/combo but I'm not fluent enough with neverborn and how they play. Any help or guidance would be much appreciated!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogs and guard. Corrupted hounds can kill most things with a plus flip to attack and damage, guardsman are incredibly survivable and guild hounds can be useful for their one action charge. As for retinue slots, Neverborn have enough good 6ss+ minions that Austringers are fat from an auto-include. Also, take some more expensive models than Lucius. With all those cards in hand, even if he's not supporting them they can wreak havoc across the board. Barbaros is one of my favourites in interact heavy pools because of his ability to push enemy models around and his nimble walk, not to mention having his challenge at the ready to support your weaker minions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always take deep pockets. I cannot imagine a situation where you wouldn't. 

Mr Graves is a solid beater in a Lucius list, plus he gives you an extra push to move somewhere. With Lucius he's at Ml6 with plus and a 3/4/6 damage track.

You can combine queeg with Serena bowman to give 3 minions extra plus (this is fun but rarely worth the extra stone). This doesn't work at all, promises is guild only!

Terracotta allows you to get rid of surprisingly loyal and gives a solid defensive condition, just keep it back, plus you can give an enforcer 1k faces and switch it to pact for extra card draw, then have the terracotta switch to something else (or back to 1k faces).

Guild Pathfinder can give your opponent a nasty surprise blast, especially when combined with doppelganger and/or changelings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do people still take the trapper at all? At 8ss he seems much less appealing, but he's still pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally use another variant of Lucius list, making a sniper-heavy team.

So I take Doppleganger and Hans both with thousand faces, Emissary with base conflux, Scribe, mr. Tannen with useless duplications, Bloodwretch and Terracotta Warrior.

Dopel, TW and Bloodwretch can make a card-cycling engine, which helps us on first turns to summon changelings (on 5+ masks with Tannen's aura). Who mobs around Hans to use his rifle.

Emy gives them free plus on attacks, resummon them when they are dead and places hungry lands for those who tries to reach us.

TW gives Lucius upgrade-cycling (which can win the entire game, for example - when Search the Ruins is in play) and offers additional protection for Hans (who is protected as well with +1 Def from Scribe and probably the Mimic's Blessing upgrade from thousand faces).

At the end we can offer up to 8 shots per turn on the range of 36 (1 from Hans, 1 from Dopel, 3 from changelings and 3 from Lucius commanding the changelings) with lots of pluses. Or double this number on the range of 18.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Angelshard

Queeg doesn't give positives to anyone since you cannot take promises in nvb.

He can give out of activation heals to illuminated though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guild Lawyers are very much worth taking at 5 SS. The extra bubble of plus flips on Horror Duels is invaluable, since you'll be inflicting them on your own models so often and you won't have to only target models within 6" of Lucius.

Austringers are vicious if you've got a few Masks in hand and don't have to cheat first. The sheer volume of hand-wrecking fire can be debilitating (although it's probably better in Guild thanks to The Jury).

As you've noted, the Autumn Knights are all solid with Lucius. [Incorrect advice about The Claw deleted]. The Tooth plus Rougarou could be even nastier with out-of-activation attacks - with Queeg, you could even get multiple Challenges off each turn.

Beckoners are fun, but probably better in a gunline Lucius. If you take Dashel and a couple of Riflemen, you're almost better off playing Guild Lucius.

Make sure you take a decent hitter as well as enough Minions. Mr Graves is a good option - his Df is lousy and he has Black Blood, but he's a Mimic with minimum damage 3 and a great push. He combines well with Doppelgänger, too, without breaking the theme at all.

Edited by Haagrum
Removed incorrect statement about The Claw.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Haagrum said:

As you've noted, the Autumn Knights are all solid with Lucius. The Claw is particularly handy as his spear benefits from Elite Training even at range.

How does that work? The Winter Spear says Rg: Gun 8 or close 2. Elite training only benefits the close attack. I checked the FAQ but i may have missed it.

I didn't even consider Queeg comboing with the claw and the rougarou with their 0s for free plus the free interacts. That makes him potentially worth taking.

The Hans gunline looks like fun, how well does that work out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking to run a list with Queeg, 2 Rougarou and a Bandersnatch when they eventually show up. Queeg can knock stuff into the Rougarou with his whip and give them extra (0) actions. The Bandersnatch can piggyback on a Rougarou for more pouncing and Queeg can make it Dart into people on his activation, or Lucius's through multiple delegations.

Brilliance crew is a solid option for Lucius, it just becomes a question of whether you'd be better off doing it with Lynch if you go in for it heavily. 

Lawyers are actually pretty decent. Fees is garbage, unless your opponent doesn't realise that and over-reacts. What they do best is provide buffs and threaten debuffs while running schemes and generally being a nuisance. I wouldn't take more than one (particularly in Neverborn) but their base stats are high enough that they can force duels through when you need to and their abilities help you out when you have a weak hand. You should at try them out, they're not the best model for their price at any one role, but their versatility in a Lucius list means they'll usually find something worthwhile to do, or at least that's my experience. 

I've always tended to run Guild Guard in pairs. Three is nice, but you don't necessarily have room for them in the retinue and it's easier to keep two of them together for buffing. Obviously the third helps keep up Patrol if one dies, but often your opponent just goes for the one in the middle to turn that off, or you'll want to split them up to run separate objectives anyway. Even at Df 4 they've still got 5 wounds and armour which is not bad for 3 stones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The Hans gunline looks like fun, how well does that work out?

Run it once against Perdita - and on turn 3 she ended, along with Francisco and Emy - making my opponent to concede.

It's mostly terrain-oriented crew. If you have good vantage point and little blocking terrain - you gonna dominate the table.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pergli said:

How does that work? The Winter Spear says Rg: Gun 8 or close 2. Elite training only benefits the close attack. I checked the FAQ but i may have missed it.

Oops, my mistake. The pre-errata version said Ml attacks, not close attacks.

This will teach me not to post without the current card in front of me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, lusciousmccabe said:

I'm looking to run a list with Queeg, 2 Rougarou and a Bandersnatch when they eventually show up. Queeg can knock stuff into the Rougarou with his whip and give them extra (0) actions. The Bandersnatch can piggyback on a Rougarou for more pouncing and Queeg can make it Dart into people on his activation, or Lucius's through multiple delegations.

Brilliance crew is a solid option for Lucius, it just becomes a question of whether you'd be better off doing it with Lynch if you go in for it heavily. 

Lawyers are actually pretty decent. Fees is garbage, unless your opponent doesn't realise that and over-reacts. What they do best is provide buffs and threaten debuffs while running schemes and generally being a nuisance. I wouldn't take more than one (particularly in Neverborn) but their base stats are high enough that they can force duels through when you need to and their abilities help you out when you have a weak hand. You should at try them out, they're not the best model for their price at any one role, but their versatility in a Lucius list means they'll usually find something worthwhile to do, or at least that's my experience. 

I've always tended to run Guild Guard in pairs. Three is nice, but you don't necessarily have room for them in the retinue and it's easier to keep two of them together for buffing. Obviously the third helps keep up Patrol if one dies, but often your opponent just goes for the one in the middle to turn that off, or you'll want to split them up to run separate objectives anyway. Even at Df 4 they've still got 5 wounds and armour which is not bad for 3 stones.

Queeg looks interesting for sure out of all the options because the 0s + allowing interact with 0 for ply sounds amazing.

I was thinking the same thing about just running lynch but I think if you only bring the three models, its enough of the brilliance that you aren't relying on it.

That's a fair point about using them as scheme runners, I hadn't considered that and I probably need some in my list. I'll have to play with them to see how they feel.

Guild Guard is good too. 6 points for 2 models to protect lucius sounds nice but how often does he need a retinue?

---------------------------

Also, I saw that Graves is the normal take with him but I'm not sure if thats the correct person anymore. He has a Ml 6 with 345 with his auto trigger being worthless. His Crushing Strike has potential and he is somewhat survivable. His pushes are pretty good but I think the investigator has enough push shenanigans it isn't as needed. The illuminated to compare without brilliance are Ml6 245 with a further threat range. They also have armor, built in regen + a 0 to heal. If you can get brilliance on a model with either their 1 ap range shot (using lucius) or the beckoner they become ml6 467 with the ability to cheat on neg flips with their trigger. You also get a higher Df + Wp model and because they are minions, they synergize with lucius + flips/horror duels + Issue command extremely well.  Am I missing something on why Mr. Graves is better (I won't take Mr. Tannen, I don't think he has a place anymore)?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graves can take upgrades to for example ignore armour and defensive triggers or the one that heals which is nice with htk. Lucius aura gives him positives to close attacks and horror since the errata so same bonus there. You can't command but you can do his horror thing to push another model and Graves up which gives some nice threat ramge turn 1.  Being ruthless can be a godsend as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have also said you have several models to do what graves does (Push and  hit hard) Graves is capable of both, where as you are spending more on the Illuminated,/Beckoner/investiogator package than you would on Graves. If you were already hiring part of that group, then hiring graves is less use, but if you were hiring none of it, its quite an investment. Several people much prefer a weak of 3 to that of 2, even if you can make it a weak of 4, its often a lot of hoops to jump through to get that bonus damage. 

I don 't think there is a right answer, but Graves certainly still has enough uses to be an option to consider

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of my nevwrborn crews don't have a huge need for rams but want masks which makes Graves' trigger more likely to get and having the option to cheat in just the right amount to kill (or a red joker) can be very handy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/10/2018 at 3:58 AM, lusciousmccabe said:

I'm looking to run a list with Queeg, 2 Rougarou

I run this with thorn and claw and fill out with hounds, changelings or mounted guard or path finder.

It's one of my fairy king variations the wild hunt but i need to convert another Lucius to have the appropriate feel.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graves is great with changelings as you can use multiple pushes to really speed up your crew turn one.

I run this for interact heavy and area control games in a full mimic crew ive themed for the purpose.

With the reduction of cost I'm considering trying beckoners with it again but without illuminated they've always felt sub par.

Tannen and doppelganger have an ugly denial set up in this build but it will become resource heavy and will require useless duplications and maybe a lawyer or terracotta warrior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A beckoner and a couple of illuminated is a pretty nice package. Either lure enemies or get some momentum early gane for friendlies.

You can pretty much charge into the enemy deployment if Lucius spends and ap + walk on the beckoner to make her move up before doing her lure + push on an illuminated. Their push trigger lets you clear up the charge lane. This also works for a bigger model with flight like Nekima if you feel inclined to try to scalpel something out and don't want illuminated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If u know that u will not face with “blastmaster”, it’s funny to play depleted-bombs. Take some deplets+ blackbloodshaman+ illuminates, also if u take condescending upgrade u will have depleteds for 3ss if u kill them by Luci. Now ur depleteds will be a solid problem for an opponent with bb all the time they get a damage. Play aggrasive Luci and use Devil’s deal to prevent/suits/etc and kill ur depleted and make more dmg, and brilance for ur illuminates. 

 

Also if u like alpha strikes u can use combination of mountedguard+teddy/baby cade/etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×