Rank Our Masters

[retnab]

So, seeing the thread regarding the definitely official master tier list (:P), it got me thinking where we all see the Arcanist masters on their own currently. So how about we give the masters their own grades, with best to worst being S, A+, A, B+, B, C+, C, and D. For this I'm considering them to mean the following:

S: Top tier, best-in-slot (BIS), whatever you want to call it. The best there is, hands down.

A+: A very strong choice, in a good spot and is BIS in several situations.

A: The highest end of what I'd consider my acceptably good zone, strong but not OP. May be BIS in a few places, and thrives in several others.

B+: Good, but not great. Has a decent number of situations where they thrive, but they're not the BIS anywhere.

B: Just good, the lowest end of my acceptably good zone. Has some situations where they thrive.

C+: Niche, with few situations where they thrive.  These would only need small changes to get into the good zone.

C: These ones struggle, and barely thrive anywhere. They may need multiple small or moderate changes to improve.

D: Bad, the "for fun only" tier. They'd need significant changes to get into the good zone, or to thrive at all.

 

Personally, I'd rank our masters like so:

S: -

A+: Sandeep

A: Marcus, Ironsides

B+: Ramos

B: Rasputina

C+: Colette

C: Kaeris, Mei Feng

D: Wrath (lol)

[Flippin' Wyrd George]

A+ Sandeep

B+ Kaeris, Marcus

B Ironsides, Ramos, Rasputina

D Colette

E Mei Feng

 

This is pretty much how I'd rate our masters based on my own success with them at the current state in the game. Poor Colette 😢

[Fictor]

Is impressive to see Kaeris on B+, can you tell me some Crews with her that has good results?

[Flippin' Wyrd George]

Kaeris - blinding flame/grab and drop/seize the day

Malifaux child

Howard Langston imbued energies

Johan imbues energies

Angelica practiced production

Then your choice of 3-4 models to complete the crew.

 

I usually take a performer, steamfitter, acolyte, union miner, moleman or wind gamin.

[Dereikt]

A:Sandeep, Marcus

B+:Ironsides

B:Colette, Ramos

C+: Rasputina

D:Mei Feng, Kaeris.

[dannydb]

Why is Raspy so far down the list?

 

[Lokibri]

S: Sandeep , Marcus

A+:Ironsides

B: Ramos, Mei Feng

C+: Rasputina

C : Colette

😄

D:Kaeris

 

Okay guys...why  do you vote mei feng down so much? She is a pretty defensive master, but i think especially in gg18 she is a pretty decent master.

[Dereikt]

16 hours ago, dannydb said:

Why is Raspy so far down the list?

 

Over-specialisation, mostly, and depending too heavily on a crew she does nothing to support in order to compensate for her crippling weaknesses. 

 

2 hours ago, Lokibri said:

Okay guys...why  do you vote mei feng down so much? She is a pretty defensive master, but i think especially in gg18 she is a pretty decent master.

Mostly the same reasons as Kaeris-superficial defences and weak damage capacity, combined with a limited number of situational support abilities,  always needing a few more resources than she has(Kaeris tends to be short AP, Mei Feng tends to be short on suits and high cards, but the end result is the same), and very little synergy with any arcanist models. Yes, Vent Steam can be a great defensive resource, but only against an opponent that's using Sh and Ca attacks, and I tend to hear about it in the context of multiple castings, in which case your burning all/most of her AP defensively, and she isn't doing anything. That feels more like a way to draw or stall against an eventual defeat than a way to win.

[Lokibri]

2 minutes ago, Dereikt said:

Over-specialisation, mostly, and depending too heavily on a crew she does nothing to support in order to compensate for her crippling weaknesses. 

 

Mostly the same reasons as Kaeris-superficial defences and weak damage capacity, combined with a limited number of situational support abilities,  always needing a few more resources than she has(Kaeris tends to be short AP, Mei Feng tends to be short on suits and high cards, but the end result is the same), and very little synergy with any arcanist models. Yes, Vent Steam can be a great defensive resource, but only against an opponent that's using Sh and Ca attacks, and I tend to hear about it in the context of multiple castings, in which case your burning all/most of her AP defensively, and she isn't doing anything. That feels more like a way to draw or stall against an eventual defeat than a way to win.

I agree that she has a strange playstyle, but didn't sge win GenCon? So, she can't ve that bad right?

And many masters and models got Ca/Sh Actions!

Would you rate her higher in 10T?

[retnab]

20 minutes ago, Lokibri said:

Would you rate her higher in 10T?

Basically all the 10T masters are better in 10T.  Recalled Training gives her a turn where she can really go to town, but she has two upgrades that are basically stapled to her card so with RT she can't hold anything else.

As far as just in Arcanists, she feels too much like a list chicken option.  Great against specific crews, but if your opponent brings few to no Ca/Sh (Viks?) then suddenly she's only a melee combo attacker and Ironsides manages to be better than her at that and Ironsides doesn't even have it built in on her (1).  She's also not nearly tanky enough for the frontliner that everything on her card and most of the upgrades except Vent Steam make her out to be.

[WWHSD]

6 hours ago, Lokibri said:

I agree that she has a strange playstyle, but didn't sge win GenCon? So, she can't ve that bad right?

And many masters and models got Ca/Sh Actions!

Would you rate her higher in 10T?

If I remember right, GenCon had a lot of rather open tables making it very likely that you were going to run into crews that favored Sh or Ca attacks.

Also, if memory serves, the top table final round was a Ten Thunders Mei Feng mirror march between players that had alternated Mei Feng and other masters throughout the tournament.

 This thread has the crew that Derrek ran in the final round of GenCon. The only models in it that could be in an Arcanist crew are Mei and a Mechanical Porkchop. The Obsidian Oni can drop scrap next to models they attack with their ranged attack (built-in trigger) and Toshiro can summon constructs off of scrap. The constructs he summons can place in base contact with enemy models which either give Mei a good place to Railwalk or keep models from being pushed away if Mei is trying to chain a bunch of attacks. Arcanists don’t have anything similar to what those models do.

[katadder]

for me: 

A+ sandeep

A: Raspy, Marcus

B+: Mei Feng, Kaeris, Ironsides

B: Ramos

C: Colette

 

[katadder]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:01 AM, Hollingydale said:

A+ Sandeep

B+ Kaeris, Marcus

B Ironsides, Ramos, Rasputina

D Colette

E Mei Feng

 

This is pretty much how I'd rate our masters based on my own success with them at the current state in the game. Poor Colette 😢

mei below colette? how very dare you 😛 

[Thottbot]

2 hours ago, katadder said:

mei below colette? how very dare you 😛 

i feel like people hate colette so much, just play her far back? ive played her in 5 games atm and she always lives to the end, infact in 4 of the games she never took any damage.

just sat in the back giving out prompts and giving out 0 scheme to my showgirls.

[katadder]

26 minutes ago, Thottbot said:

i feel like people hate colette so much, just play her far back? ive played her in 5 games atm and she always lives to the end, infact in 4 of the games she never took any damage.

just sat in the back giving out prompts and giving out 0 scheme to my showgirls.

Think for me she doesn't suit my playstyle. I like to be aggressive with my masters which is why I think I like the masters that I do

[Franchute]

I know I will get a lot of hate for this, but according to logfaux, the current ranking in terms of winrate under gg18 is the following:

1. Ramos (31 games, 58%)

2. Ironsides (41 games, 54%)

3. Sandeep (29 games, 52%)

4. Rasputina (26 games, 46%)

5. Marcus (42 games, 40%)

6. Colette (21 games, 29%)

7. Mei Feng (7 games, 29%)

8. Kaeris (23 games, 21%)

In parenthesis are the win rates and the number of observations used to calculate these rates (the mei fend data is clearly unreliable).

You can throw me into the fire now 😀🔥

[retnab]

Huh, Marcus has been doing a lot worse than I expected.  Ramos winning sounds about right honestly, I don't think a lot of people have really picked up on how much of a game changer Vox Populi is for him.

[Gnomezilla]

7 minutes ago, retnab said:

Huh, Marcus has been doing a lot worse than I expected.  Ramos winning sounds about right honestly, I don't think a lot of people have really picked up on how much of a game changer Vox Populi is for him.

I played Ramos yesterday and was reminded that he wants, like, six upgrade slots. Choosing VoxPop instead of an Arcanist general upgrade was tough, but rewarding. My opponents all were deterred by the idea of taking a 50mm riposte attack (that’s more or less what the strike markers are) on the charge or placement near a Symbols marker; Nicodem’s summons literally could not survive it, the rest was psychological. Now if I had remembered that I could charge through them myself with impunity, it really would’ve rocked. The peonizing attack mattered in the first game, but the latter two not so much (Ramos was out of range of Nicodem’s Philip helpers). Amina’s debuff lasts all game, so she’s the better choice for that task. What does make VoxPop feel off is that it encourages his activation earlier in the turn and I liked him activating late.

Noted that people still hate and fear Ramos swarms and will not let them swarm together. Must run Hoffman Ml7 swarm again. After giving Marlena her table time.

[Boomstick]

*cracks knuckles*

Clearly I need to hold off on trying to figure out Marcus and start bringing Colette out more again.

Glad to see Sandeep isn't the top of the heap, but he still needs to be brought down a notch.

[Franchute]

On 4/28/2018 at 5:08 AM, Lokibri said:

Okay guys...why  do you vote mei feng down so much? She is a pretty defensive master, but i think especially in gg18 she is a pretty decent master.

What does Mei Feng do that is an advantage in GG18?

[Lokibri]

3 hours ago, Franchute said:

What does Mei Feng do that is an advantage in GG18?

i explained it here in more detail :). I don`t just wanna copy and paste it here

 

 

[retnab]

6 hours ago, Lokibri said:

i explained it here in more detail :). I don`t just wanna copy and paste it here

She's pretty decent in TT, but the problem is in Arcanist she doesn't get Toshiro, or Oni, or the superbuffer Emissary.  Do you think she's good in GG18 as an Arcanist?

[cbtb11235813]

22 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Must run Hoffman Ml7 swarm again. 

That's just gross.... I wish Ramos could do that

[hemgath]

For me:

A+ Sandeep

B+ ironside

B rasputina, marcus , ramos

C+ kaeris

Never play colette and meifeng so... don t class them

The only B for Marcus is because this boss is really hard to play for me so don't have good result with him even if i find it very nice ( but for me is a piece of paper and not really permisive)

The boss who grow up in my ranking after lot of test is raspy... more i play her more i find her good...

Actualy ramos is not good as last year but i rally love this boss ( exept on my last game with a black joker on my first invoque

[Lokibri]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:17 PM, retnab said:

She's pretty decent in TT, but the problem is in Arcanist she doesn't get Toshiro, or Oni, or the superbuffer Emissary.  Do you think she's good in GG18 as an Arcanist?

I think she can do pretty well in arcanists too, but her playstyle changes a lot.

With the effigy we have a very good instrument to get burning down on models and receive additional burning for +flips for dmg. Also, we have premium constructs like howard and joss. Those make some good initial attackers for mei to rail into and finish them off.

Gunsmith do a very nice job in addition and can profit a lot from burning.

Also protected oxfordian mages are very nice turrets, protected from mei.

Playing mei in arcanists is more leaned towards getting the burning condition on them while protecting your own stuff until they can either flurry or charge in and follow up with mei to push them around to create space again or finish them off.