Rider Levi after errata and in gg18

[daniello_s]

What do you think about Rider Levi nowadays? With SS drop for 3 out of 4 riders, in gg18 environment where survivability is important and with Untimely Demise upgrade i think this crew might be quite interesting to play.

[KID55]

Even before errata this crew was interesting, and now this can shine. For example you can bring mobile toolkit and increase damage output. Or TW and protect your guys. Or both, and swap pariah upgrade to untimely demise. Or kentaroy and ride Leveticus. Or Librarian for more survivability. Or 2-3 desperate mercs for activation control.

[gribble]

I've been fond of playing it with Midnight Stalker.

He really helps put the early game pressure on the opponent (along with Levi), so the Riders can hang back for turns 3+.

Between Hodgepodge Emissary -> Arcane Rider and Levi -> Waif, I've yet to have problems with activation control. Unless something goes horribly wrong, you trivially get 10 activations first turn (Levi, 3x Waif, 4x Riders, Emissary, Midnight Stalker), and with a bit of luck (happens more often than not) you can get an extra one from an Abomination. In later turns, you have Arcane Rider summons, Abominations, and Waifs to keep activation control.

[KID55]

Or Sue, or whatever good Outcast model.

[daniello_s]

22 minutes ago, gribble said:

I've been fond of playing it with Midnight Stalker.

He really helps put the early game pressure on the opponent (along with Levi), so the Riders can hang back for turns 3+.

Between Hodgepodge Emissary -> Arcane Rider and Levi -> Waif, I've yet to have problems with activation control. Unless something goes horribly wrong, you trivially get 10 activations first turn (Levi, 3x Waif, 4x Riders, Emissary, Midnight Stalker), and with a bit of luck (happens more often than not) you can get an extra one from an Abomination. In later turns, you have Arcane Rider summons, Abominations, and Waifs to keep activation control.

Levi, 3x Waif, 4x Riders, Emissary, Midnight Stalker???

If you take 3x Rider, Emissary (to get 4th rider) and Stalker you are already on 48SS which will give you only 3SS in pool and bare Levi. Really? 

I was playing Rider Levi quite a lot before (before errata and in gg17) and what i learnt was that he really needs SS in the pool for cards and winning initiative.

[gribble]

36 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Levi, 3x Waif, 4x Riders, Emissary, Midnight Stalker???

If you take 3x Rider, Emissary (to get 4th rider) and Stalker you are already on 48SS which will give you only 3SS in pool and bare Levi. Really? 

I was playing Rider Levi quite a lot before (before errata and in gg17) and what i learnt was that he really needs SS in the pool for cards and winning initiative.

Start with Levi, 2x Waifs, Emissary, 3x Riders, Stalker. Levi at the end of his activation summons Waif (+1 activation), Emissary at the end of his activation summons Mechanical Rider (+1 activation).

Yep - I have had no problem going SS lite. I typically pick up desolate soul as well (to get even better activation control, and more nuisance value for the opponent to deal with while the riders are hiding), so I normally only carry 1SS (used for cards top of 2 or 3).

I've had a lot of success with it locally. Not saying we have the strongest meta here, but there are a bunch of regular players (~20-30) between Prague and Brno.

[daniello_s]

1 hour ago, gribble said:

Yep - I have had no problem going SS lite. I typically pick up desolate soul as well (to get even better activation control, and more nuisance value for the opponent to deal with while the riders are hiding), so I normally only carry 1SS (used for cards top of 2 or 3).

😮

[gribble]

9 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

😮

I'm beginning to think that having a lot of SS just doesn't suit my style of play. Everyone seems to have a ton more than me, but there have been very few occasions where I have felt that I needed them... 🤔

[daniello_s]

As long as you always have strong control hand and win initiative then indeed you don't need SS in your pool.

[gribble]

16 hours ago, daniello_s said:

As long as you always have strong control hand and win initiative then indeed you don't need SS in your pool.

Maybe I'm just naturally lucky.

Seriously though, I've found that I can manage well enough with 1-2 SS so I can draw a couple of extra cards or reflip initiative on a crucial turn. I prefer to have the points on the table in models and upgrades, and just deal with the bad flips if necessary.

It probably also helps that I tend to play henchman light and enforcer heavy, my two main masters to date being Von Schill and Levi.

Maybe as I improve as a player (and/or try other masters) I'll find SS more important. I've only been playing for ~6 months (though I usually place in the top third of the field for local tourneys, once coming second and once third).

[Adran]

22 minutes ago, gribble said:

Maybe I'm just naturally lucky.

Seriously though, I've found that I can manage well enough with 1-2 SS so I can draw a couple of extra cards or reflip initiative on a crucial turn. I prefer to have the points on the table in models and upgrades, and just deal with the bad flips if necessary.

It probably also helps that I tend to play henchman light and enforcer heavy, my two main masters to date being Von Schill and Levi.

Maybe as I improve as a player (and/or try other masters) I'll find SS more important. I've only been playing for ~6 months (though I usually place in the top third of the field for local tourneys, once coming second and once third).

The amount of SS you use is largely a play style. (both of the player and the Master/crew)

Yes, spending 1 ss to cycle through 2 cards is good, but if you do that 4 times in a game, does that actually help you more than hiring an Effigy would? 

I almost never bother spending stones on initiative, but that's because I try and play in a manner that I am happy to lose initiative. You can easily play in a style that makes initiative flips crucial, and the stones spent on those flips can then be game winning. Neither is the "right" answer, its what works for you (and the crew you are playing).  

 

[gribble]

8 minutes ago, Adran said:

The amount of SS you use is largely a play style. (both of the player and the Master/crew)

Good to know I'm not missing something crucial in "how to play Malifaux 101".

What you wrote is pretty much the way I tend to play - minimise the impact of initiative and a bad hand as much as possible. Though I realise sometimes that can be taken out of your hands by a good opponent. And sometimes "bad things happen", regardless of planning.

[daniello_s]

My hyper-aggressive playstyle requires having lots SS for initiative flips or having Trixie/Doppelganger in my crew almost all the time

[Ludvig]

You can easily spend four soulstones on initiative flips and still lose all four anyway. 

[cbtb11235813]

I tend to win initiative one turn every 5-10 games I play, so I just try to plan my strategy around going 2nd every turn. Not worth spending the stones on that for me

[Mikey_C]

5 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said:

I tend to win initiative one turn every 5-10 games I play, so I just try to plan my strategy around going 2nd every turn. Not worth spending the stones on that for me

You should try playing Tara.  on Init flips. Typically I after stone use I only lose 1 per game.

[Raimu]

What are good strategies for rider Levi in gg18? 

[katadder]

10 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

You should try playing Tara.  on Init flips. Typically I after stone use I only lose 1 per game.

I used to run seize the day in a few of my arcanist crews but still managed to lose init every turn in games (or when I did win it I flipped 2 13s so wasted them) so now have just come accept it and dont waste the upgrade slot.

[Manxfaux]

Or bring an Engineer. If you can find that 5+  you can probably send in the Hooded Rider a turn earlier and the extra cards are really useful.