The big guys of neverborn

[Maigaard]

Hi guys - i've recently started playing malifaux again after a break since 1st edition and now i'm looking at what models to get for my masters Pandora and Lillith. I have my eye on the Mature Nephilim but I'm wondering where he would fit in since I've already got Teddy and Nekima. 

A more general question would be: What do you see as the strength and weaknesses of the 10+ SS models of the neverborn compared to each other? When do you use which and with which masters?

[Ludvig]

It seems like competitive players pretty much never use the mature but go for Nekima instead. She gets a lot more for only a few soulstones more in the form of melee expert and her (0)s. The mature is very expensive for a model with few ap. The only place where he can't be replaced by the others is probably a grow list since you specifically get a mature from growing.

I kind of like the mature but I play thematic Lilith a lot of the time and she wouldn't be working with Nekima (plus I wasn't super fond of the plastic sculpt so I never bought her). It's fun to charge over models with flying and use black blood pustule from a shaman to cause more black blood damage and buff your model (works on both Nekima and the mature). The charge through trigger can be lots of fun but requires a pretty high card with the right suit. Since I face Lucius every now and then it's very handy to have the positives on the attack flip to counter Lucius defensive ability.

[Haagrum]

It's not easy to answer this question as Neverborn heavy hitters aren't solo pieces. Nekima seems to be the exception, but even she can be fragile without the right support.

Hooded Rider got vastly better at 10SS. He is fast and offers a lot of support for a model intended primarily to be a beatstick. After turn 2, his melee is brutal and he becomes very survivable.

The Emissary is great for Pandora, but maybe less so for Lilith. It's largely a support piece, in my view. Still, Changeling summoning is always solid.

Teddy... well, he dies very quickly, but he keeps everyone else from being killed in the meantime. I think he's definitely worth it for Pandora, if you use Baby Kade and maybe a Will-o-Wisp with him.

Barbaros is another control piece. He's great for both Lilith and Pandora for different reasons.

I've never used the Mature Nephilim, so I will let more learned minds discuss them. That said, I hear he goes well with Changelings thanks to the built-in positive flip on his attacks.

[Maigaard]

Thanks for the reply guys. Looking at both Hooded, Barbaros and Emissarys cards I can imagine some fun uses and synergy, but I'm having a bit of trouble seeing where Mature Nephilim would shine. I like the model though so maybe I will try him out

[Ludvig]

4 hours ago, Maigaard said:

Thanks for the reply guys. Looking at both Hooded, Barbaros and Emissarys cards I can imagine some fun uses and synergy, but I'm having a bit of trouble seeing where Mature Nephilim would shine. I like the model though so maybe I will try him out

If you want to get silly with Serena Bowman and deploy several models right outside the enemy deployment to get some action from the first activation of the game they are hilarious. Nekima isn't allowed to take the upgrade and flight is pretty damn good when you will be so close. A teddy would need to deploy in the open to get a straight charge but the mature can put a bit of it's base behind a house or some other hard, impassable cover since you ignore terrain completely when charging with flight. If you luck out and draw the needed tome you can then charge through onto pretty much any model in their crew. Corner case, you say? Maybe a bit...

In a Lilith list you can put them just behind a forest to protect them completely from ranged attacks and then push the enemy into the forest with Lilith so you now see each other but a non flying enemy likely doesn't have the charge reach to hit you while the flying neph can ignore the forest. Works for Nekima as well of course.

[-Loki-]

I’ve never been disappointed in the Mature. A bit less survivable than Nekima, but his built in positive is nice, makes him more self sufficient than Nekima who can easily eat your hand.

I think he needs his Wing Buffet changed to a (0) and could use a 1ss drop in cost but he’s by no means bad at what he does. Anything I’ve pointed him at has died, which is the point of the model.

[Haagrum]

2 hours ago, -Loki- said:

I’ve never been disappointed in the Mature. A bit less survivable than Nekima, but his built in positive is nice, makes him more self sufficient than Nekima who can easily eat your hand.

I think he needs his Wing Buffet changed to a (0) and could use a 1ss drop in cost but he’s by no means bad at what he does. Anything I’ve pointed him at has died, which is the point of the model.

Min damage 4 is pretty appealing, particularly with the prospect of taking Retribution's Eye to bypass Armour and defensive triggers.

How do you usually run yours? Just curious as the Nephilim box and Black Blood Shamans are on my still-to-get list, and I wouldn't mind having Grow options available (yes, I know it's suboptimal, but not bothered by that).

[-Loki-]

Stick A Thousand Faces on it and run up a flank. It can destroy any usual flankers or circle around into the scrum to help out.

Swap A Thousand Faces for Malifaux Provides if you need a health pack or Retribution’s Eye if you need to crack some armour.

It’s handy to have a Lilitu around as well (though it’s handy to have a Lilitu anyway, so you’ll probably have it there already). She can drag it into position for a charge if need be. It’s got a surprising 10” reach off a charge that also ignores intervening terrain so it can catch people off guard if it hides then a Lilitu drags it out into charge position of an activated model.

[Adran]

I've had a lot of fun using the charge through trigger to disrupt enemy formations, especially good if I can get it to trigger on the second attack of a charge, allowing me to deal damage to 1 target, move it out the way, and then go onto another (And if I'm lucky another and another...)

[shakes1066]

The mature is good with Zoraida and her powerful control trigger, he can charge get his trigger to “charge through” and get half way across the board before he activates. He is then in position to flurry, 5 AP on an opponents master with min dmg 4 turn one can be effective. But with DF4 don’t expect him to last long.

[Joachim]

I really like the hooded rider now at 10ss and I think he's awesome with zoraida. 

With Titania I always bring the emissary, ofc he's not a beater at all. I don't have experience with the usual suspects teddy and nekima.

[anencephalous]

Having come late to NB from TT, I have been amazed at how good the Mature Nephilim is.

4 min damage is nice, especially with Zorida, where you can get a charge on her turn, then a flurry in the Nephilim's. His walk 6 is just bonkers for getting into position, more so when combined with obeys from Zorida or lures from Beckoners.

But it is the armour, terrifying and black blood that makes him so useful. Killing this model is usually just too expensive to be worth it unless it can be engaged by some other heavy beater. If you put him next to a normal small model, they are more likely to turtle with defensive than attack back, because min damage 2 against armour and black blood is suicidal.

I usually charge him to a flank, away from the opponents heavy hitters, and with his good engagement range, he can usually get to, and delete a medium sized model from the table every turn or second turn.

[Angelshard]

Personally I find the emissary to be one of the best investments in neverborn.

He is hard to remove, creates dangerous terrain that neverborn move shenanigans can use to devastating effect, can remove conditions and his attack is nothing to sneer at, especially if you can get the ram trigger. (Which is guaranteed in a titania crew). Summoning changelings means he's not even an activation sink and his conflux options are mostly really good.

Nekima is solid all around. Not much to say there, she's 13 stones that works great, even without any kind of support.

Teddy is one of the models that made me choose neverborn as my primary faction and one day I will make him work.

Hooded got oh so much better with the last errata and is, for me, in a good spot between Mr, graves and nekima.

Mature I have no experience with.

[Argelius]

9 hours ago, Angelshard said:

Personally I find the emissary to be one of the best investments in neverborn.

He is hard to remove, creates dangerous terrain that neverborn move shenanigans can use to devastating effect, can remove conditions and his attack is nothing to sneer at, especially if you can get the ram trigger. (Which is guaranteed in a titania crew).

In a Titania crew, how so?

What guarantees the trigger?

 

[shakes1066]

2 hours ago, Argelius said:

In a Titania crew, how so?

What guarantees the trigger?

 

The Titania Emissary upgrade in book 5, he can add any suit to action if he is within a certain range of hungry land markers

[Domin]

18 hours ago, shakes1066 said:

The Titania Emissary upgrade in book 5, he can add any suit to action if he is within a certain range of hungry land markers 

Within 3".

I personally try not to use "big guys" in my lists, but Emy is the only exception - he's too much effective.

 

[Tendrepie]

Mature Nephilim is decent with Dreamer (otherworldly), Serena Bowman and warped reality so you can use empty night on it then accomplice it. With the baked in + and the big damage track, you can usually get rid of something that annoy you... 

While it is living (because it die quick, even if not quite teddy quick), it is also quite interesting to have changeling around copying it's attack (they get the + to attack).  

[Ackfactor]

Not sure it is has been said yet or not -but switching A Thousand Faces into Fears Given Form on a well placed Nekima can be devastating to an opponent's crew. Or at least force them into some hard choices (which is always good).