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Erik1978

Alpha strikes too poweful?

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IMO everything that has a threat range of 36" should be changed. Whether or not good players can counter it. It's just silly with that range.

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Gets even sillier if the range is even more than 36". :D

I'll admit games can be pretty unfun when one player is expecting the first turn to be mostly set up and the other is aiming to decide it then. I'm not sure how easy it would be to remove that without taking out a lot of the combo element many players enjoy.

If it's any consolation that kind of play becomes far more manageable with some experience (in my experience). Stuff like crew positioning and threatening models/objectives can make combos a lot harder to pull off, even if you will always need to play around them.

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1 hour ago, Erik1978 said:

Vic with Weak damage 5, 3 attacks ignores all but impossible to wound, seems like one that can kill any target out there? (Unless they have a certain Df trigger to skitter away or something)

raspy (or frozen heart minions whens someone has sub zero)

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1 hour ago, Erik1978 said:

Vic with Weak damage 5, 3 attacks ignores all but impossible to wound, seems like one that can kill any target out there? (Unless they have a certain Df trigger to skitter away or something)

other types of damage reduction (Hoffman's Trigger, Arcane shielding, Parker's Steel Plate, Collodi's Personal Puppet, Nico's Undertaker, Seamus's Haberdasher, Frozen Heart's "reduce damage to 1" triggers, Drowned), damage redirection (Misdirection, Parker's Human Shield, Hamelin's Stolen extra lives), triggers to end activation (Zoraida, Rasputina), high Df models (Lilith, Yan Lo with Fortify, Sun Quaing, several Neverborn minions/enforcers, void models under certain conditions, Pandora), Disguised models (too many to list), Highest Authority models (lawyers, Lucius and I think Vogel), ghetto HtK (Schill's aura), mobility triggers (Squeel and Ramos's thing where he gets extra Df and pushes you away), high Terrifying values (she is Wp 5), Manipulative (again, Wp 5)...

 

all this makes pokey Vik an okay killer at best. Sure, if a model's only defence is Armor/Incorporeal and/or HtK (those guys usually have low Df to balance their tankiness), she'll demolish it with ease. Otherwise there are only enough high cards in Vik's hand (remember, you need a 7 for the Emissary, a Tome to bury with Wretch, a 1-7 to fail the Wp duel and either a 6+ or a 9+ to give out +2 dmg, the combo really taxes your resources). With Fast, I'd say you hit 3/4 attacks on average (my experience), that's 15 damage before prevention and reduction, not taking into account possible BJ on hit/damage and enemy RJ on defence/prevention. There are so many factors outside of the Viks player's control that charging something with Pokey Vik is not a no-brainer thing to do. I'm not the best Viks player in my meta (although I'm one of the top Outcast players), but I've found that against good opponents this is indeed a risky venture.

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I don't think anyone can actually say pokey vik is only an "okay" killer.  There really isn't a better killer in the game then a fully juiced up vik.

A bunch of your examples don't really apply either.  For example, the Silent one's "Reduce damage to 1" does exactly nothing vs. min damage 5.  They have 6 wounds total.  Either you drop them on the first hit, or are at 1 wound left and still dead on the next swing.

She's attacking with Ml 7 :+flip:+flip to attack and a free :+flipto damage.  She's very likely hitting all your high Df models also, likely at a straight flip for damage.

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2 hours ago, Clement said:

I don't think anyone can actually say pokey vik is only an "okay" killer.  There really isn't a better killer in the game then a fully juiced up vik.

A bunch of your examples don't really apply either.  For example, the Silent one's "Reduce damage to 1" does exactly nothing vs. min damage 5.  They have 6 wounds total.  Either you drop them on the first hit, or are at 1 wound left and still dead on the next swing.

She's attacking with Ml 7 :+flip:+flip to attack and a free :+flipto damage.  She's very likely hitting all your high Df models also, likely at a straight flip for damage.

I'm not saying she's a bad killer: if you read my previous posts I argue that there are a lot of things that mitigate her damage well. The ++ to attack is something experienced players don't take anymore (2ss is too much), and the single positive to damage can be counteracted with soulstone use.

I think I've given enough examples of both counterplay and abilities that dampen the impact of a Viks alpha strike already.

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While I would call Pokey at least good and not just ok at killing I will forever treasure your gift of the term "ghetto htk" @Seadhna. :D

 

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13 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

While I would call Pokey at least good and not just ok at killing I will forever treasure your gift of the term "ghetto htk" @Seadhna. :D

 

As much as I would love to take credit, it's been around for quite a while now (and even discussed as inappropriate due to it actually being better than the original HtK that can be ignored), and I'm not sure who coined the term 😃

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