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hollow1351

Playing against swarms

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Hi, had an interesting game vs Guild today. Opponent's crew:
Nellie (Guild Funds, Delegation, Alternate Facts)
Dashel (Arrest Him)
The Printing Press
12 Guild Guards
Missions: Ply For Information, Surround Them, Dig Their Graves, Set Up, Inescapable Trap, Recover Evidence.
So guards are Df6 almost all time, can take focus as 0 from Dashel, shoot 12" with 1-2 :+flip. Total outactivation, 15 from beginning + Dashel summons more guards, very hard to make strategy. I played Lynch with 8 activations, lost. Anyway, can someone give an advice how to play against such kind of crews? My thoughts are Misaki with The Storm, but requires a lot of support to dive into enemy lines (Sensei, Kamaitachi) and no garanty to survive all the remainig attacks until the end of the turn + opponent can position his models to minimize damage from blasts. Another option is Shenlong with snipers, but it's kinda useless with normal amount of terrain on the table.

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I’ve been the Guild Lucius with Dashel against Misaki more than I ever expected. Storm has the tools, but don’t forget you can downburst and separate the guards back down to Df4. (Some of them, anyway. I didn’t run quite that many guards for Operation Drop Schemes Like Colette On Uppers.) Or don’t separate them, and enjoy misdirecting that many incoming shots, which had to randomize first. Gods know my 10T Misaki opponent did.

It’s a shooty list with one model above Sh4—is Mei Feng worthwhile?

Taking out Dashel leaves the obey master, be it Nellie or Lucius, with no one worth obeying.

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Don't know much about 10 Thunders but taking out Dashel seems like a good option. Even if you lose something important in the process the whole list is pretty much built around him and it'll stop any further summons.

Some models with big engagement ranges to lock the guard down and waste their AP would be a good idea also.  And Beckoners to lure things about to munch on.

Shame you can't get Fears Given Form in TT. Huggy with that is quite the pain for hordes of plebs. 

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@Gnomezilla Thanx for reply. I dont't think Downburst is really nessesary here. Guard with Df4 can be hurt by Misaki easily, but he is only 5 wounds, dies with 2 attacks which is not enough to blast other guards (+ Douwnburst just causes a duel which may be passed). About randomizing when shooting Misaki, in the crew I posted Dashel has trigger to push Misaki out of guards (Sh6 Rst: Df) and Nellie also has built in trigger for push (Ca 6 Rst:Wp) + if you fail any attacks she can push you out with Run From The Truth ability. Mei doesn't look like a good choise for me, guards attack with 2:+flip with focus when in Dashel's aura or even with 3:+flipwith double focus, so reqire double/triple cloud from Mei + cover + own models to shoot from the cloud.

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37 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Don't know much about 10 Thunders but taking out Dashel seems like a good option. Even if you lose something important in the process the whole list is pretty much built around him and it'll stop any further summons.

I agree, killing Dashel is nessesary here, but quite difficult becouse of number of activations + pushes from Nellie. For the same reason it's difficult to lure or somehow else take him out of his crew. Models with big engagement ranges seems not too nessesary becouse you'll let guards to not randomize while shooting if stays more then 2" away.

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True, you'll want to get within 2" of one or more of them but an extra inch can let you engage more at the same time. Also big base models could come in handy for blocking line of sight to Nellie and Dashel to cut off support passively. 

How close are these models clumping together, would it be worth looking into more models with blasts?

Also McTavish as a merc could be a fairly hard counter. EDIT: Although I just realised he doesn't have From the Shadows by default. :(

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4 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

How close are these models clumping together, would it be worth looking into more models with blasts?

Not too close actually. They need to be in 6" from Dashel and 3" from each other for Df6 (enough to not be damaged with 1 blast).

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Don't kill them. It's ply so just lure in some patsy and ply them once or twice before killing for dig their graves, repeat that each turn while their list scrambles to reach you with wk 4. I assume you had bekoners if you were doing thematic Lynch. Maybe set up and ply Dashel. Nothing in this list is really putting out the hurt unless you walk into bad positions. If the guild guard are close enough for their defense aura you can.engage two or three of them and all the pls flips in the world won't help them against randomising with a 3/4 chance to hit a friendly. Melee reach 1 means they'll need to walk in to hit. Seems to me like Misaki with the storm and misdirection could survive for a while by hiding in engagements and probably killing about half the guild guard on her first round of attacks if they are all bunched to be buffed by Dashel.

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@Ludvig Again, Nellie can push any model you try to engage guards out + if you tries to engage them you give your opponent posibility to ply. Maybe you are rights and luring guards from big distance one by one and plying them would be a good option here. But cuz of number of models he can set up closer for the next turn to ply when outactivates you.

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2 minutes ago, hollow1351 said:

@Ludvig Again, Nellie can push any model you try to engage guards out + if you tries to engage them you give your opponent posibility to ply. Maybe you are rights and luring guards from big distance one by one and plying them would be a good option here. But cuz of number of models he can set up closer for the next turn to ply when outactivates you.

Doesn't Misaki start at a higher stat than Nellie? So she isn't guaranteed to succeed and even if she does one activation is pretty much impossible for this crew to kill Misaki so if you have a decent delivery system for her turn one you get at least two rounds of insane storms against them. Pure killing win't do you much good i this particular match though.

Didn't see the deployment type but assuming normal you keep your crew in your deployment zone and just move the beckoners slightly forward to reach and lure one enemy model a bunch of times until it is within gamble or shooting distance of you. Illuminated have a pretty decent shooting attack and when lured forward the guards are no longer defense buffed. Lynch can also easily handle a guardsman. Beckoners have 18" of reach and can push backwards so should be very safe even while luring. Nothing in this pool really forces you to take a single step from your deployment zone and only the beckoners need LoS to several model i the enemy crew. The rest of your crew only needs LoS to the point where the lured model will end up, no use letting the guild guard shoot you, hang out behind a house or forest.

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On standard deployment there is 24" between your crews so if you are in your deploymwnt zone the guild guards will need to walk for turns 1-3 to reach you so no plying for the oppoaing crew until turn 4. Nellie can push a few models forward but then you know which ones to lure next turn. If you take ply and dig and they score 0 VP the first three rounds I think you can play turn 4 in a normal fashion. If you ply them first they also can't ply that model so outactivation might not be such a big help. Beckoners also shut down interacts for enemy models with brilliance on them and you have several ways to put out brilliance.

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4 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Doesn't Misaki start at a higher stat than Nellie? So she isn't guaranteed to succeed and even if she does one activation is pretty much impossible for this crew to kill Misaki so if you have a decent delivery system for her turn one you get at least two rounds of insane storms against them. Pure killing win't do you much good i this particular match though.

Hm, you are right, it's Wp7 against Ca6. Notice that you need two 6+ cards to push with Yu + card to push with Kamaitachi + 2 high 1 average cards to cheat with Storm for double severe and moderete to kill guards with blasts. Requires too many cards. I think it can be better to concentrate on Misaki's delivery first turn and save cards to not be pushed out, maybe take defence stance. And from turn 2 try to kill Dashel. It can be even easier with Servant of 5 Dragons, but I dont see any free slot for it.

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Katanaka snipers can probably put Dashel down pretty quickly. You can save Misaki for later since Nellie can't threaten with an alpha strike. No use in giving away Ply points as you said, she may be more of a liability.

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