Jump to content
Rostislav

Your ideas how to play vs unstopable crew

Recommended Posts

So my friend has created a crew that seems impossible to stop.

This crew requires a skill to play, but I don't see a way to play vs experinced player who picks it.

So the crew:
 

Somer Teeth Jones + 6 Pool
-  Family Tree (2)
Skeeter (2)
Old Major (9)
Gremlin Crier (7)
War Pig (9)
- One Pig Against The World (0)
War Pig (9)
- One Pig Against The World (0)
Hog Whisperer (5)
Banjonista (5)

2 extra SS are optional, usually he takes a second Skeeter or some upgrades for them.
Doesn't look that scary? If you move forward to take position - poor you. You still don't understand what is waiting for you. Best strategy is to run in horror at the corners.

So how does this crew works.

0. My friend always use a SS to get a better starting hand.
1. Skeeter flies a bit forward and uses Sommers (0) to give :maskto everyone (-card).
2. After it activates Bajonista. He pushes everyone 2" forward, attacks Sommer (to push him 4" forward, Skeeter autogives needed suit) and takes a def. stance.
He does it so that Goblin cryer nearby can take 1 damage and 1 card (6 wounds left).
3. Then Hog Whisperer gets extra action for Reckless and gives Reactivation for 2 War pigs and Old Major. It's easy to do because he gets :mask from Skeeter and needed card is 5+
4.Old Major activates for the first time. He spends 2 cards to push Warpigs 4" forward and give them +:ram
Cryer takes 2 damage and gives 2 cards (4 wounds left).
5. Old Major activates for the second time. He pushes one of the warpigs additional 4" and walks forward so that both warpigs are in his aura.
Cryer takes 1 damage and gives 1 card (3 wounds left).
6.Cryer activates. he makes his 0 (1 damage and 1 card) and makes 2 times a def stance action (2 cards more).
He dies and gives Sommer 3 cards (2 for Sommer and 1 for Bajonista). A new gremlin is spawned.
7.New gremlin activates, gets extra action for 2 damage and walks/attacks Sommer to push him.
8. Then activates Sommer. He makes "
 Git Yer Bro" 3 times each time killing a gremlin and getting 3 cards for a total of 9.
So this is it Now Sommer has 6 - 1 + 3 + 9 = 17 cards  (!!!!!) (- cards that could have been spent for def. or failed TN of action). Usually it's about 14-15 cards now.
Also don't forget that he has discarded his worst cards 8 times (!!!!!) an got new ones for them.

Can you imagine this hand?

So usually all enemy crew has spent it's activation now. If not - new gremlin can activate.
Then it's piggy time.

First pig was moved 2 + 4 +4 = 10"
Second pig was moved 2 + 4 = 6"
If we add 6" for standart deployment it's 16" and 12" in total.
Then each pig can either charge if enemy is foolish enough to come close or move 5" and charge (5 + 9 = 14).
Please remeber that a pig has :+flip to attack and damage from old Major.
A  total threat range of 30" and 26" so usually everyone can be charged.
They can use charge for (1), remeber?

Now they attack and for second attack Stampede (remeber + :ram?). Stampede means that you can charge an extra target for free even when engaged (once per activation).
Plus remember that pigs can activate twice (due to reactivation) and get extra :+flipto all thx to  One Pig Against The World for the second activation.

So what does this mean? It means that each pig will make 4-5 charges with :+flipto hit and :+flip to damage with MI6 and 2/4/6 damage.
Do you still remeber 14-15 cards and 8 worst cards discarded?
So it will be 8-10 attacks each pig with 4 damage avarage (you can cheat it).  Let's assume that 15 attacks hit (easy with this hand and :+flip). This is at least 60 damage, more if needed.

So if an enemy makes a slightest mistake or even doesn't make it, the game is finished turn 1. If someone remains he will be killed on turn 2.
This crew demands skill, but when a skilled player plays it is unstoppable.
So what will you do vs it?

PS. 
1. Pigs have 12 wounds, HT 3 and 50 mm base. They can cover models from sniper fire.
2. Accoarding to the situation, activation order can be changed. 
3. Pigs can be moved even further 8" by moving each other or Somer 
with Bowled over (4" push after attack). There is NO ESCAPE.
4. Table with lots and lots of terrain or roofs can save you. So on this table he will just take other master 😃

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would need to see it on the table, but your black text is making it hard to read.   

That card engine sounds pretty tough.  I think Sonnia would be my counterplay.  That crew sounds vulnerable to blasting then blocking the warpigs way with flame walls. Between the malifaux child and Sonia herself you can make it very hard for those pigs to get their big alpha strike especially if you wait until after those pushes to know which way they are going.  

Another trick I would consider is using a sanctioned spellcaster turret.  If it hits the piggies with the no charge condition they will be quite sad.  And if you give it El mayor and protect, they will charge up your soul burst for you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hint 1 play nelly,

hint 2 take Hans and 2x snipers

hint 3 shoot his key pieces that he has in the open to get all the movement shenanigans off

 

Or, take a bunch of models that cannot be charged and place them on front line ( 4x desperate merc for no tax and 2x investigators come to mind)

 

Mind you there is a gameplay aspect but those 2 setups will hurt him early on

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont believe you get + dmg from major either, and you have to start charge around him.

as mentioned previously, flame wall sonia with student will also ruin his 50mm melee centric crew

  • Respectfully Disagree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't read because of black text but based on others it sounded like pigs. Piggies usually have short ml ranges and no ranged actions so I would abuse that. Unchargeable models with ranged actions seem good. If there is a ton of 50mm bases your opponent should have serious trouble on a lot or boards. Remember that a model on a 1" high crate cannot be reached by ml 1 unless touching the edge of the terrain.

Ps. If you edit and cut the text and then paste it without formatting it will be easily readable no matter what settings prople use on the forums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really hard to say what to do cause of
1) Black text
2) Where your crew list ?

3) Where the schemes u played ?
4) He has good hand ? ROFL Boy, my best hand was 6 10+ Cards without any SS shenanigans... So it just luck and luck doesn't work 24/7 in your favor.

5) About movement... If model with 10'' possible move make u scared imagine situation when opponents master charges u from one table corner to another ...

6) As far as i know nothing is unbeatable... It's more how forgivable your crew is and how hard your opponent can punish your mistakes.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somer player here. First of all, Rostislav, thank you for posting. I see, you translated part of my Somer guide in English. ))
Now, let me clear this thing for you. This roster is really, like REALLY evil. It doesn't look so on paper, but 2 warpigs with reactivate can do ALOT of damage. (Like, around 130 dmg maximum, 60 average), and can wipe entire enemy crew on turn 1. It's true, played it for, like, 10+ times, against diffirent masters, and won them all. You just wipe enemy turn one, and he surrenders.

Now, to the answers. First, roster can be countered with right positioning, and I don't think Sonnia will work, it depends on terrain tho.

3 hours ago, PolishSausage said:

I dont believe you get + dmg from major either, and you have to start charge around him.

as mentioned previously, flame wall sonia with student will also ruin his 50mm melee centric crew

You are mistaking Mayor and Mechanized Porkchop. Mayors aura works if pig just activates in it.

 

17 minutes ago, Rillan said:

It's really hard to say what to do cause of
1) Black text
2) Where your crew list ?

3) Where the schemes u played ?
4) He has good hand ? ROFL Boy, my best hand was 6 10+ Cards without any SS shenanigans... So it just luck and luck doesn't work 24/7 in your favor.

5) About movement... If model with 10'' possible move make u scared imagine situation when opponents master charges u from one table corner to another ...

6) As far as i know nothing is unbeatable... It's more how forgivable your crew is and how hard your opponent can punish your mistakes.

 

 

1)...
2) It doesn't really matters against turn one EVIL alpha strike.
3) Same as 2
4) You don't get the idea. Somer player takes 12-15 cards from the deck, he have 6 in start hand, and sycles around 8. It's more then half of the deck. Good hand here is not just luck, it;s maths. But even IF Somer player ends up with bad or average cards in hand, all the good cards are still in deck. And then, pigs charge with plus flips for attack and damage, drawing 2 cards for each attacks, and one card at averege for damage flip. It's not about luck, it's about maths. Yes, there is still a chance, that Somer player will have bad flips. But it's EXTREMLY unlikely.

5) You don't get it. You don't just get charged. You get charged turn one, after ~10 activations(and you don't have a models to react, cuz u are outactivated), and you get charged 10 times, with model witch have plus flips for damage and attack. 2\4\6. It's not scary. It's devastating to most masters.

6) On that one, i agree.

As for counter set-ups... Well, charge-preventing auras will work. Outactivation will work. Blocking LoS will work. And control-heavy masters or snipers will work.
Good Idea is Zoraida, obeying Warpig at turn one(Flying with her(2) first), to charge Hog Whisperer, and if your opponent are not very bright - stampeding Cryer\Bayou gremlin.

But it's interesting topic to talk about. I hope, my english is readeble.

  • Like 5
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Platov

Would a single lure make the warpigs activate outside of Mayors aura? Seems like that would take some of the edge away. They're still not pushovers but a decent ranged crew could perhaps take them out turn 1 or isolate one of them. 

A peacekeeper with htw and armour could probably tale them on the chin. It can also pull thrm out of position. Put another sturdy 50mm next to it so they can't draw LoS to anything else and they can't keep charging through thr crew because of LoS.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a guild player but.. 

That list seems to need A LOT of set up. Just.. Screw with activation order. Play hyper aggressive and charge his models before he's ready to destroy you. If a warping is engaged and is near only to his models.. The rams are against him. 

 

Just the first idea I had, reading the list and the timing of it. 

Byez

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@Platov

Would a single lure make the warpigs activate outside of Mayors aura? Seems like that would take some of the edge away. They're still not pushovers but a decent ranged crew could perhaps take them out turn 1 or isolate one of them. 

A peacekeeper with htw and armour could probably tale them on the chin. It can also pull thrm out of position. Put another sturdy 50mm next to it so they can't draw LoS to anything else and they can't keep charging through thr crew because of LoS.

Im not sure lure will work. As for me, if I see lures, i'll wait, and don't activate Mayor. He have 2 activations, so he can just follow pigs later in turn.

As for blocking with 50mm models, it's not very good idea. Pig will charge him, and then use stampede trigger to go further into your crew. Again, if its were me, i would just ignore peacekeeper turn one, and just bounce from him with pigs.  Even if peacekeepre survives, it doesn.t matter, if i kill rest of enemy crew.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

Not a guild player but.. 

That list seems to need A LOT of set up. Just.. Screw with activation order. Play hyper aggressive and charge his models before he's ready to destroy you. If a warping is engaged and is near only to his models.. The rams are against him. 

 

Just the first idea I had, reading the list and the timing of it. 

Byez

Once again, i have seen such things. Only real set up in this roster, is card draw. I got Nekima in my deployment zone turn one, once. Pigs don't really care, when to activate, Yes, you can activate them last, but you don't HAVE to. And also, you can charge enemy alpha-strike model with Mayor, before activating pigs. But still, it MIGHT work. I think, Victoria can whirlwind this crew, and cripple it. But snipers will do better.

UPD. I mean, most of this roster is about finding a way, to charge enemy models. If enemy plays aggresivly, he tends to move to the center of the map, so you don't have to think about pushes anymore. You just walk and charge then.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Platov said:

Somer player here. First of all, Rostislav, thank you for posting. I see, you translated part of my Somer guide in English. ))

Yep. Thanks for your guide.

The Somer player who created this list plays in our club.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Rostislav said:

Yep. Thanks for your guide.

The Somer player who created this list plays in our club.

Yes, i know who are you talking about. ^_^

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Platov said:

Im not sure lure will work. As for me, if I see lures, i'll wait, and don't activate Mayor. He have 2 activations, so he can just follow pigs later in turn.

As for blocking with 50mm models, it's not very good idea. Pig will charge him, and then use stampede trigger to go further into your crew. Again, if its were me, i would just ignore peacekeeper turn one, and just bounce from him with pigs.  Even if peacekeepre survives, it doesn.t matter, if i kill rest of enemy crew.

The charge can't go through bases, it only ignores being engaged. We must pla on very different tables if you can just ignore the peacekeeper, a single 50mm is often enough to block access to another 50mm base on most of thr boards I play on. Two 50mm should really allow some major charge blockage.

I'm thinking McCabe to make the emissary disguised as well. That should allow some breathing room turn 1 at least.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

The charge can't go through bases, it only ignores being engaged. We must pla on very different tables if you can just ignore the peacekeeper, a single 50mm is often enough to block access to another 50mm base on most of thr boards I play on. Two 50mm should really allow some major charge blockage.

Yep, but you don't have to charge to BtB of peacekeeper. In straigt line, yes, but you just have to end charge movement in engage with peacekeeper. But it's really hard to talk about this theorethically. It really depends on exact positioning, i think.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I removed black text.

So the main idea of this crew is that when pigs start charging the Gremlin player has:
1. Outactivated you with 9-10 activation.
2. Has +/- 15 cards in hand.
3. Discarded 8 worst cards to get better cards.
4. Two activations on both warpigs with :+flipto hit and :+flipdamage

Pigs can charge multiple times during their activation so it would be 4-5 charges each and 8-10 attacks per warpig.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Platov said:

Yep, but you don't have to charge to BtB of peacekeeper. In straigt line, yes, but you just have to end charge movement in engage with peacekeeper. But it's really hard to talk about this theorethically. It really depends on exact positioning, i think.

Agreed, it's really hard to talk about so I will have to take your word for it. Even with counterplaying it sull feels like a beastly list, I've bern on the recieving end of just a single warpig before. In my experience the short engagement 1" usually means you are blocked from charging past another 50mm, especially since our table design is often made with a lot of terrain about 3" from each other so a aingle 50mm base can just squeeze through but two cannot go through beside each other on most of the board. We usually leave an open spot of about 8-12" in the middle of the board. On a more open board where two 50mm can actually pass beside each other on most of the board this gets a lot worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Platov said:


As for blocking with 50mm models, it's not very good idea. Pig will charge him, and then use stampede trigger to go further into your crew. Again, if its were me, i would just ignore peacekeeper turn one, and just bounce from him with pigs.  Even if peacekeepre survives, it doesn.t matter, if i kill rest of enemy crew.

I would look very carefully at the wording of Stampede - I've been caught out by it, but you have no option over who is charged by it. Its certainyl possible to use it as you have said, but I've had it back fire enough times to say that its not easy to consistantly get it into the enemy crew. 

The list certainly looks scary. But I don't think that you would get 4-5 charegs per pig, unless you were lucky enough to kill at the right time with the right trigger. My warpig use does not very often get me 2 useful charges a turn, and if I was facing this list I would try and make sure the stampede charge doesn't hurt me. 

 

I will say its very nice to see a Gremlin list that doesn't follow the normal Gremlin models but still seems to be very powerful. I'm not sure how I would face it, but engaging a pig whilst its in Majors Aura might be quite problamatic for it. (around activation 8). 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Rostislav said:

The Somer player who created this list plays in our club.

At the risk of sounding really glib, maybe you could challenge your friend to compete without a cheesy list?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Adran said:

I would look very carefully at the wording of Stampede - I've been caught out by it, but you have no option over who is charged by it. Its certainyl possible to use it as you have said, but I've had it back fire enough times to say that its not easy to consistantly get it into the enemy crew. 

The list certainly looks scary. But I don't think that you would get 4-5 charegs per pig, unless you were lucky enough to kill at the right time with the right trigger. My warpig use does not very often get me 2 useful charges a turn, and if I was facing this list I would try and make sure the stampede charge doesn't hurt me. 

 

I will say its very nice to see a Gremlin list that doesn't follow the normal Gremlin models but still seems to be very powerful. I'm not sure how I would face it, but engaging a pig whilst its in Majors Aura might be quite problamatic for it. (around activation 8). 

Well, yes, stampede is quite tricky thing to use. But then again, I usually use bowled over at 1 attack, and then stampede. And of course, you don't get total 120 damage output from this list, but around 40-70 is always possible, and that is quite alot. And, as first pig dives in, it pushes and kills enemy models, making in easier to stampede with second pig or second activation of first pig.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

Not a guild player but.. 

That list seems to need A LOT of set up. Just.. Screw with activation order. Play hyper aggressive and charge his models before he's ready to destroy you. If a warping is engaged and is near only to his models.. The rams are against him. 

 

Just the first idea I had, reading the list and the timing of it. 

Byez


This list can be played 3 ways.

1. If you play super aggresive all models will simply stay in deploy and wait for you to come. After that kill you.
2. If you move forward, you 'll get 10 charges after you activate all your models.
3. If you don't leave your deplyment you'll get +/- 8 charges.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Scatterbrain said:

At the risk of sounding really glib, maybe you could challenge your friend to compete without a cheesy list?

Well, as was mentioned before, just yesterday i finished my Somer guide, and this list was included in it. And from now on, alot of players in 3 countries, who read my guides, will use it, so there will be quite a lot of this roster in our meta.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McCabe or Justice with el mayor on them might be tough enough to get dirty with the pigs. It would require the guildie drawing a decent hand but with all the gremlin card draw the scales are looking very likely to get two at least.

 

If you take bowled over you are now base to base so should have a really tough time lining up a good charge.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Scatterbrain said:

At the risk of sounding really glib, maybe you could challenge your friend to compete without a cheesy list?

That's a really weird thing to do. If the game is a competiion then people can be expected to bring good lists. Asking for silk gloves seems like a casual game thing.

  • Like 1
  • Respectfully Disagree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Adran said:

The list certainly looks scary. But I don't think that you would get 4-5 charegs per pig, unless you were lucky enough to kill at the right time with the right trigger. My warpig use does not very often get me 2 useful charges a turn, and if I was facing this list I would try and make sure the stampede charge doesn't hurt me. 

That's what he usually does. Positioning requires high skill, but when you do it right - you can charge 4-5 time per pigs on turn 1 and get enemy in his deployment zone.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×