The New Seamus

[nomoredroids]

I've been seeing a lot of talk lately about Seamus; a lot of questions, too. Like, is he viable in a competitive tournament, now? And the answers to most Seamus questions make me think that I run a very different Seamus than everybody else. So the purpose of this post is three-fold: to give a brief accounting of my experience with Seamus at Adepticon (I ran him all 5 rounds), for me to explain my play style, and to briefly explain how to get more out of one of his upgrades. I don't believe my way is best, just different, and, in many cases, more effective than the more traditional methods of running Seamus. 

So, first, Adepticon. Actually my first Adepticon. I placed 4th, with a 4-1 record, running Seamus all 5 rounds. I'm also not the greatest player ever, though I'm certainly not awful, so I would say that the way I run Seamus makes him a viable contender in a tourney to a better player. I won my first game against Lillith primarily because that player underestimated how bad it was to be within the -2 WP aura Seamus gives out. I lost my second game because Nekima won Initiative and immediately wrecked Seamus in Turn 2. How? She flipped two moderates and a severe, Seamus stoned for all 3 (because I made a mistake and panicked), flipping weak on each, which got him down to Hard to Kill. Nekima then used Black Blood to kill him, because dear Seamus was out of stones. Had I not panicked, Seamus would have survived, then likely healed close to full the next turn. In my panicked state I made another mistake: my Red Joker was in my hand and Nekima was down to 6 wounds. I thought my opponent was activating Titania instead of Nekima, so did not do the 6 wounds that would have killed her after she passed the Terrifying duel (I also take Decaying Aura, so the damage isn't preventable). My next three matches went much the same as the first, with Seamus being underestimated and surprising the player on the other side of the table. 

I built my list after about 2 months of practice and tweaks, all predicated on three ideas: 1) Seamus heals whenever you  fail a WP duel within 6" of him, 2) he gives enemies -2 WP whenever they're within that bubble, and 3) Boo is really, really, really good. The important thing to note is that this isn't theory-faux. This has proven to be good in practice, against competent opponents. 

I've heard all the complaints. Infamy is hard to get. The damage track is weak. A WP 12 duel isn't that hard to pass, and it negates his defense. No opponent would be stupid enough to clump enemies within 3" of a spot Seamus can teleport to. 

And yet every player (save one) I sat down with at Adepticon says something like "Oh, Seamus. I know exactly what he does." And roughly 2 minutes into the game they're asking to see my cards because what he's doing doesn't seem possible based on what they know about Seamus. 

Here's the thing about Seamus. He's got a pretty powerful gun that can shoot once. And Back Alley is really useful. Everybody knows that, and those are certainly a big part of his toolkit. But his best ability is actually Boo. I mean, sure, 1-shotting Hannah is always great. Raising Belles is a great way to go. But I would much rather Back Alley on turn one, Walk twice to get into range of a big group of scary important models, then take Seamus's (0) to Boo. Your opponent may not clump 3" from a spot Seamus can teleport to, but I really doubt they'd be able to anticipate a 24" movement from Seamus and clump nowhere. I'd much rather do that than Back Alley, Focus, and Shoot. Even though most models will pass the WP duels on Turn 1, which is fine. Because I'm going to deal damage to one of them with Do You Know Who I Am?, then cheat in Severe if I have to. With Seamus's Infamy +1 and Sinister Reputation, that means your opponent essentially needs to flip a WP 15 to pass Seamus's Terrifying checks. You know what makes an opponent with WP 7 angry? Needing to flip an 8 to pass a Fear duel at Turn 2, then taking damage for doing it. At turn 2, by the way, I usually no longer cheat in the Severe for damage unless it means I kill something. 

Do You Know Who I Am's virtues are many, but first you have to recognize Boo's true range. It isn't a 3" Pulse. It's a 7" hole in the board. There aren't many crews that can spread out that far and still maintain cohesion and buffs and what have you. I, at least, have not seen any. Get into the middle of a clump. Walk if you have to. Go to town. There's no hiding from Seamus; he's got a 16" placement and can walk twice afterwards; that's 24" if the Terrain is with you. 

Virtue One: Boo with Sinister Rep leads to increased WP duels. If you've cheated Severe on Turn 1 It means that your opponent has to flip moderate cards to do anything. Which is my primary goal; get the high cards out of your deck. Seeing the Black Joker is fine. Seeing the Red Joker is incredible. Seeing those 11s, 12s, and 13s is great. At minimum you're flipping 8s. Sure, you're not paralyzed, but I'm insuring you're not really going to do much with the rest of your turn, either. And if I don't see those cards it means you're losing activations and healing Seamus. This is a win for Seamus no matter what. 

Virtue Two: Boo's damage track. You know what's depressing? Attacking Seamus, cheating in a Severe to pass Terrifying, then losing the model after Seamus cheats in a card to do 4 from DYKWIA. Sure, the damage is weak. But you get to do it when your opponent does something they want to do. There aren't a lot of effects in this game that allow you to just hand out damage without flipping for it. There aren't any that I know of that deal damage when your opponent succeeds without having some sort of cost to it (Black Blood requires damage on the model, for example). This effect isn't really a goal; I don't necessarily care that Seamus can do 2/3/4 damage when you succeed on a Terrifying duel unless Punish the Weak is in the pool. But my opponent has to. Get it? You can't attack Seamus with a model that has 4 Wounds on it and hope to get that through. Because if Seamus has that Severe in hand after you pass his Terrifying duel, your model is toast and you've wasted a card that you had to flip or play to pass his WP 15 hurtle. Icing on the cake for Seamus is that after doing it, his Terrifying Duels get worse. So, no, the damage track isn't great. That isn't really the point. The point is that your opponent's decisions get harder. 

Virtue Three: The push. This ability cannot be understated. Your opponent passes the Terrifying duel, then gets pushed 2" + 1 per Infamy. So, if I'm playing, that's usually 3" at Turn 2. This is ideal for Seamus because first you can put models wherever you want them. And second it means that you're free to take a focused Attack against whatever you care to shoot at. In fact, Boo means that (barring Laugh it Off) Seamus is ALWAYS able to take that shot. Third, it's a push, so your Doxies (which should absolutely be up the board by Turn 2) can be ready to make mince meat of them off of Pounce. And Fourth, if you've got a troublesome model handing out some happy buff or whatever, you can shake up his positioning. Nothing is more frustrating than winning a duel and then losing control because you won the duel. 

Virtue Four: Do You Know Who I Am as a whole. The best thing about Boo, and the thing I see most players (even amazing players) not realize, is that Boo isn't just a good Push sometimes and a paralyzer sometimes and a damage track sometimes. It is all three all the time. If I cheat severe on the damage I'm making my Terrifying duels more powerful and my pushes better. The damage is nice, but it isn't usually why you cheat that Severe. If I use Boo I'm gaining an opportunity to drastically improve Seamus while reducing my opponent's crew effectiveness due to forcing their cards out or paralyzing them. There is NO bad result on using Boo unless you fail to flip that 8 and cannot, for some reason, cheat it in. None. Even if your opponent passes every single Horror duel, Seamus is ahead and his opponent is behind. 

Do You Know Who I Am is done, so lets move on to the crew. I prefer to take models that force Wp Duels; first because of the -2 Wp from Sinister Rep, and second because Seamus heals. In fact, almost ALL my model choices revolve around Wp duels.

Shikome will make things within 6" of Seamus melt, and cause Seamus to heal 4 wounds in the process, provided they can hit the (0) Shriek, that is.

Yin does too much work to ignore. Her attacks can all hit Wp, and thus Yin on her own can heal Seamus for 6 during her activation. 8, if you activated My Little Helper. But her real value is the neg twist to Wp Duels. Obviously, you can use this to force Paralyze from Boo, if there's a model that you don't think you can murder but need to deal with. But more often than that, I use it in conjunction with other Wp Duels, to insure Seamus is healing. Pushes from Belles,  Yin's attacks, attacks from Shikome; all of these are virtually guaranteed to go off, now. 

Chiaki will literally win you games. She's an easy 6SS. She's got a (0) Wp attack, a (1) Tactical Action that forces all models in a wide pulse to take Wp duels, and, of course, can remove conditions. An auto-take for Ply or Public Executions. A serious consideration no matter the pool, though, especially with that -2 WP aura of Seamus's and her dope Manipulative 12. 

Dead Doxies are Seamus's MVPs. A 2" Engagement range with min 2 damage and a Ml 6. Take the Lead is a (0) that moves the Doxie AND the target AND hits Wp. AND the trigger puts the target on negative flips. Even if your opponent doesn't want to clump, they're not going to have a ton of options. You can Take the Lead as a (0) to move up the board, push away a model, and (1) Interact. Super useful for models protecting a Symbol of Authority, or for Ply, or for Supply Wagons, or for dropping 2 schemes in a turn, or for taking 3 attacks against a model that was 10" away at the start of the turn. Their Df/Wp trigger is hell, and killing them only gives something within 4" (usually Seamus or a Belle) fast. Use these 6SS models right and your opponent will be checking your cards to insure you're not cheating. But you aren't. They're just that good. 

Rotten Belles are obviously great. Two high-Ca Wp duels from 18" away make Seamus happy. Flipping a crow is a real treat, too. 

And those are the models I usually draw from. A Rogue Necromancy is a good time. Carrion Emissary is very strong. Asura Roten carries the possibility of healing Seamus from Hard to Kill to full in a single activation before she does anything. I don't think I need to extol the virtues of the Copycat Killer. 

Datsue Ba isn't a terrible choice, but isn't a good one, either. She does have a very weak Wp attack, and a good Df attack, but she tends to crumple up. And for the points, Yin does so much more work. 

You might be wondering "Why so many WP duels? Surely Seamus doesn't need that much healing." 

That'd be where you're wrong. 

Most people still imagine Seamus in the role he used to fill: flit around the board, staying out of LoS, killing a model, raising a Belle, then jumping away. But the New Seamus doesn't care about that. Wave 5 Seamus wants to be known.  New Seamus will Back Alley once at the start of the game, find a clump of high-value targets or a master, then Fear them to death. That means new Seamus will take a heck of a lot of damage. That's absolutely fine. With crews that focus on Wp duels, every activation brings him off his Hard-to-Kill while weakening your opponent. Your opponent may not realize how much Seamus can heal, which is better for you, because they'll focus their AP on murdering him. And unless they can ignore Hard to Kill...they aren't likely to do so. They may decide that ignoring him is the best tact. Except it turns out that they can't. 

See, my ideal Seamus Activation past Turn 1 is (1) Walk to position, (0) Boo, (1) Focus, then (1) Shoot. Generally speaking, I want to scare as many big scary models as I can. I'll lock them into my 6" - Wp Aura, then hit something that passed and hasn't activated and I can kill with my gun. Barring that, I target a model with a ton of health and I'll just focus my damage on it. Because my next activation I'm going to use my Shikome or a Doxie or Yin and everything eventually dies if you lay into it hard enough. The bottom line is if you focus on hitting Seamus, he'll survive. And if you don't, my crew gets to slowly dismantle you piece-by-piece as Seamus chooses his targets and weakens you with his -2 WP bubble. 

Because THAT is Seamus's new playstyle: everything I do forces my opponent to make a decision with a bad outcome. Fail a duel and be paralyzed, or take damage and get pushed (to probably take more damage)? Attack Seamus to achieve nothing, or let him dismantle my crew while I unsuccessfully ignore him? 

Just to be clear, here at the end: obviously this crew isn't unbeatable. Losing Seamus before his second activation is probably going to cost you the game. Your opponent picking off your models is going to make you less effective, too. Your goal with this crew is to get your opponent's attention on Seamus. Make him deal with HIM because his -2 WP aura makes his entire crew so much better. There are still crews which are going to require more finesse than others (for example the Viks), or crews that can easily out activate you. Part of the reason I like playing Seamus this way is because he feels like a puzzle; he slowly dismantles the enemy crew, taking key models while soaking up their AP. And he's got a ton of options. I still haven't found a scheme pool he's bad in; AKA Sebastian Baker insures he's got so many options there's literally nothing he can't do. And "Boo" is my favorite ability, but it's hardly the only one to take. Summoning Belles might be the way to go if your opponent is somehow denying you 'Boo' options (like Rooting him, for example). 

Anyway, thanks for reading! I hope this was helpful, if you've never played Seamus but want to, or thought-provoking, if you've been playing Seamus since forever but not like this. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

Congratulations for the result. It seems that the way you understand Seamus role and play him is not very (if at all) different from the way people around me do, but you were able to get much better results. I have the feeling that here most Seamus games are like your second game May I ask for strats and opposing crews in all rounds?

[nomoredroids]

6 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

Congratulations for the result. It seems that the way you understand Seamus role and play him is not very (if at all) different from the way people around me do, but you were able to get much better results. I have the feeling that here most Seamus games are like your second game May I ask for strats and opposing crews in all rounds?

Thanks! Most people I have seen seem to want to hop around the board with him and stay out of LoS; my Seamus is usually pretty static. And sure.

1: Lillith / Public Executions
2: Titania / Ours
3: Von Schill / Symbols
4: Lynch / Wagons
5: Von Schill / Ply

[McSkip]

Thank you man, that was a true eye opener. I must say I have to digest your premium input first before asking further questions

[duszy]

Nice, i've latetly started to play him similar way, staying in middle, forcing wp duels. Haven't thought about Shikomes, i've totally forgot they can attack WP.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I would also state my belief that the majority of competitive games will be more like the second game.

[nomoredroids]

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I would also state my belief that the majority of competitive games will be more like the second game.

Game 4 was against a Misdirection Lynch with Yasunori, Huggy, Shadow Emissary and Sensei Yu. I went from Hard to Kill to full twice. My opponent forfeit and the only thing I had killed was Huggy. I get that it seems unlikely, but the only reason Seamus went down in Game 2 was because I panicked and wasted my stones. And Nekima got pretty lucky on top of it. 

[Ubeltaeter]

 Dead doxy have 1" engagement

[Rillan]

Did u cheated your opponents? .. Damage flip on Horror Duel is Once Per Turn. 

 

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

Hi there, @nomoredroids.

I agree on the new Seamus; I'm playing him a lot in the last months and have arrived on quite similar conclusions.

My style is maybe a little bit different: on T1 my Seamus just move in position by the end of the turn to focus shoot off the board an enemy and summon a doxy/rotten belle from a zombie. 

From then onward he adapts to the moment: if I need him as a cannon, he focus shoot, if I need him into ne enemy crew, he goes balls deep or use belles to drag enemies in, ecc. 

The one thing he really needs in this build is models who Actively force wp duels, not simply terrifying ones. This leads to a secondary virtue: hand draining. Between horror, wp duels, belles' trigger, the opponent usually has a very poor hand.

 

Some of my speculations about models for his crew:

Yin: I'm always a bit disappointed in her. She's a very slow tank, with very little damage output. Her (0) is golden, but a part from that in my metà she's always ignored and can't tarpit where I need her to be in time, cause her damn slowness. She does force some wp, but her damage track is awful. On paper she's wonderful, on the table a little meh.

Asura roten: she's golden. She forces a lot of low priority high wp duels and summons a zombie, giving you a little of activation control and a corpse to summon off or to explode. Her AP are usually spent to do the strategy or schemes. And she gives belles and other weak undeads a better attack and a good debuff (useful for Seamus'gun). 

Dead rider: ok, it doesn't seem to have a lot of synergies but it has some. Its melee attack has two good triggers for seamus: it can pull models in his aura and can force a highish horror duel (or can pull a model into the bubble and force a high horror). Its damage is good and it's quite resilient, expecially with My little helper on T2. I've tried it from the errata and find it fine. 

The hanged: fragile as fuck, but attacks on wp, cause a lot of horror duels and his bubble of No Immunities is great. 

Kentauroi: no wp synergies, but can transport Seamus for a ride, hiding him to let him telephoto away, ecc. He drops a lot of corpse once in the middle of the scrum and can heal with zombies or corpses. Good solid model. 

Belles and doxies: they do what they do best, forcing wp duels and moving enemies into the bubble. 

Bishop: not cheap, not really tanky, but really punchy. His ability to target wp means punches virtually ML 8 (and healing for Seamus). And he does a lot of damage. 

Shikome: never tried them with Seamus. Seem like a mini bishop, but with less attacks. I'm not sure I would use them without some Poison synergy. 

Little gassers: on paper they seems a great 4ss minion: pull my finger can cause havoc.. But I haven't tried them with Seamus yet.

 

For Seamus upgrades. 

At the moment I'm always taking Sinister Reputation and Do You Know Who I Am. I'm trying a few for the third one. The one that appeals me the most is Corpse Bloat, as between Asura, Kentauroi and people dying, usually there are plenty of corpses to make explode. 

I don't rate Decaying Aura very high, as in my experience Seamus hunts non-ss-users (as he likes to focus) and the Infamy damage is not high enough to justify 2ss. 

 

OK, I made a little of wall text uh? Hoping the reading is not particularly boring and the English correct (as it's not my language). 

See you in the grave, friends! 

[nomoredroids]

7 hours ago, Rillan said:

Did u cheated your opponents? .. Damage flip on Horror Duel is Once Per Turn. 

 

No, no cheating. I often hold out on the Damage flip until I know it's most painful. Sometimes holding out too long...:P 

 

3 hours ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

Hi there, @nomoredroids.

I agree on the new Seamus; I'm playing him a lot in the last months and have arrived on quite similar conclusions.

My style is maybe a little bit different: on T1 my Seamus just move in position by the end of the turn to focus shoot off the board an enemy and summon a doxy/rotten belle from a zombie. 

From then onward he adapts to the moment: if I need him as a cannon, he focus shoot, if I need him into ne enemy crew, he goes balls deep or use belles to drag enemies in, ecc. 

The one thing he really needs in this build is models who Actively force wp duels, not simply terrifying ones. This leads to a secondary virtue: hand draining. Between horror, wp duels, belles' trigger, the opponent usually has a very poor hand.

 

Some of my speculations about models for his crew:

Yin: I'm always a bit disappointed in her. She's a very slow tank, with very little damage output. Her (0) is golden, but a part from that in my metà she's always ignored and can't tarpit where I need her to be in time, cause her damn slowness. She does force some wp, but her damage track is awful. On paper she's wonderful, on the table a little meh.

Asura roten: she's golden. She forces a lot of low priority high wp duels and summons a zombie, giving you a little of activation control and a corpse to summon off or to explode. Her AP are usually spent to do the strategy or schemes. And she gives belles and other weak undeads a better attack and a good debuff (useful for Seamus'gun). 

Dead rider: ok, it doesn't seem to have a lot of synergies but it has some. Its melee attack has two good triggers for seamus: it can pull models in his aura and can force a highish horror duel (or can pull a model into the bubble and force a high horror). Its damage is good and it's quite resilient, expecially with My little helper on T2. I've tried it from the errata and find it fine. 

The hanged: fragile as fuck, but attacks on wp, cause a lot of horror duels and his bubble of No Immunities is great. 

Kentauroi: no wp synergies, but can transport Seamus for a ride, hiding him to let him telephoto away, ecc. He drops a lot of corpse once in the middle of the scrum and can heal with zombies or corpses. Good solid model. 

Belles and doxies: they do what they do best, forcing wp duels and moving enemies into the bubble. 

Bishop: not cheap, not really tanky, but really punchy. His ability to target wp means punches virtually ML 8 (and healing for Seamus). And he does a lot of damage. 

Shikome: never tried them with Seamus. Seem like a mini bishop, but with less attacks. I'm not sure I would use them without some Poison synergy. 

Little gassers: on paper they seems a great 4ss minion: pull my finger can cause havoc.. But I haven't tried them with Seamus yet.

 

For Seamus upgrades. 

At the moment I'm always taking Sinister Reputation and Do You Know Who I Am. I'm trying a few for the third one. The one that appeals me the most is Corpse Bloat, as between Asura, Kentauroi and people dying, usually there are plenty of corpses to make explode. 

I don't rate Decaying Aura very high, as in my experience Seamus hunts non-ss-users (as he likes to focus) and the Infamy damage is not high enough to justify 2ss. 

 

OK, I made a little of wall text uh? Hoping the reading is not particularly boring and the English correct (as it's not my language). 

See you in the grave, friends! 

I mean, there's always situations where I do something different with Seamus. Some games I pop an important support model on Turn 1, but usually I setup the board for that so I can Back Alley in, Boo, and shoot. I don't usually summon with Seamus, and if I do it's Turn 1, from an enemy model. But I don't NOT summon with Seamus either, if you get me. 

So, on Yin. Damage isn't really her thing. She's not really a tank, either. I mean, sure, if she can engage a scheme runner, cool. Usually I just walk her around the board and hit things with the (0) until she's in Seamus's bubble, then use her triggers to port into somebody's engagement range. I use her solely to disrupt an opponent's big model. Because after getting hit with Gnawing Fear, they can't really attack any of the 'big' models bc of their Terrifying duels; they need to go after something small or run the very real risk of wasting a turn. And then I can easily play Belle Ping Pong with it. The best thing about Yin is she can activate early and Gnawing Fear, then not activate until late the next turn before needing to flip cards again. I like her for Guarded Treasure, too. The way I see it, if my 8SS model can shut down or lead to the death of one of your big linchpin models, then she's more than worth her points. 

The Hanged would be really good as a cheaper model. I love them so much, and I've run a lot of the Hanged. Unfortunately their damage isn't that high and they can't usually stay on the board for long. When Wave 5 came out I was running 2x Hanged with Seamus, and while they're effective, and they certainly scare the bejeesus out of some players, most players can just get rid of them without much issue, and giving up almost half my points to those things was heinous. I eventually dropped it to 1 then none. 

Dead Rider just isn't a model I like. 

I usually take Decaying Aura because of the non-healing bubble more than anything, because I'm usually butting heads with stuff you want to heal, but if Eliminate the Leadership is in the pool then it suddenly becomes worthwhile to start targeting the enemy master, even if I didn't take EtL. Seamus's min damage is 4 on his gun, and the 4 for Severe from DYKHIA means a lot of Masters are going to be hurting end of Turn 1 if I have my way. Plus, sometimes I get lucky. That said, it isn't an auto-take. But if I see Gremlins or 10-T, yeah, I'm gonna take Decaying Aura (getting into Ulix's face with Decaying Aura makes Ulix a sad panda). 

Gassers are really good for 4ss. With Shikome they're stupid good. 

Bishop's something I've not considered, actually. I like it. 

You should try out AKA Sebastian Baker for your third. Particularly for the ability to hire Cassandra. She works very well in a Seamus crew. I suspect Carlos with the Lampads will work pretty well, too, but that's speculative. 

 

Also: you shouldn't apologize for your English or your writing, it's wonderful. Thanks for the response.

[duszy]

22 minutes ago, nomoredroids said:

Bishop's something I've not considered, actually. I like it. 

You should try out AKA Sebastian Baker for your third. Particularly for the ability to hire Cassandra. She works very well in a Seamus crew. I suspect Carlos with the Lampads will work pretty well, too, but that's speculative. 

Imo Bishop cost too much and dies too easily without my little helper, and without scramble he's kinda slow.
Carlos - i don't think he will work well without his upgrade. You'd have to take Chiaki as well to remove burning from him, and with Lampad that's 22ss for not that awesome combo.

[Adran]

11 minutes ago, duszy said:

Imo Bishop cost too much and dies too easily without my little helper, and without scramble he's kinda slow.
Carlos - i don't think he will work well without his upgrade. You'd have to take Chiaki as well to remove burning from him, and with Lampad that's 22ss for not that awesome combo.

I've never understood any claim that says Bishop is slow. Bishop may look slow because you see Wk4, but when he is on the table he is as fast or faster than a lot of models that never are called slow. He can attack a model that's 12" away twice. He can drop scheme markers 8" away from his starting location., and he can walk 12" a turn. None of that is slow. 

I agree partially with Carlos, I would worry about the amount of damage that he would suffer from burning (Although that is probably only 1 each turn)

[nomoredroids]

31 minutes ago, Adran said:

I've never understood any claim that says Bishop is slow. Bishop may look slow because you see Wk4, but when he is on the table he is as fast or faster than a lot of models that never are called slow. He can attack a model that's 12" away twice. He can drop scheme markers 8" away from his starting location., and he can walk 12" a turn. None of that is slow. 

I agree partially with Carlos, I would worry about the amount of damage that he would suffer from burning (Although that is probably only 1 each turn)

I'm not suggesting it's competitive, really; just fun. 

[JurisprudentiallyYours]

Great read nomoredroids, makes me want to pick him up. To the people suggesting that this wouldn't work in the majority of competitive games, I guess I'm confused - are we saying that a tournament at Adepticon is not a competitive event with competitive games or are we saying that 80% is not a majority? 

[nomoredroids]

18 minutes ago, JurisprudentiallyYours said:

Great read nomoredroids, makes me want to pick him up. To the people suggesting that this wouldn't work in the majority of competitive games, I guess I'm confused - are we saying that a tournament at Adepticon is not a competitive event with competitive games or are we saying that 80% is not a majority? 

Due to the nature of Swiss tournaments, after losing the second game I'm no longer competing in the upper echelon of play. 

I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to declare my opponents "non-competitive," though. 

[JurisprudentiallyYours]

Ah, thank you for that clarification. Based on the hyperbole on this forum though, I'm almost 100% certain a 5-0, 50 differential showing would have nevertheless resulted in a few "well, in my meta..." type posts. Nature of the beast perhaps. 

[duszy]

40 minutes ago, JurisprudentiallyYours said:

Ah, thank you for that clarification. Based on the hyperbole on this forum though, I'm almost 100% certain a 5-0, 50 differential showing would have nevertheless resulted in a few "well, in my meta..." type posts. Nature of the beast perhaps. 

The thing is - it depends on meta  I have a lot of arcanist players here, mostly Sandeep, Rasputina and Ironsides ( i think all of my last 5 or 6 games was against arcanists, and each time it was a different player  ). Frozen heart is hard counter for Seamus, Ironsides with mages and wards is also pain in the ass, and Sandeep is Sandeep. Still, because i think Nico and Reva are boring, both fluff and gameplay-wise (Reva especially), and i'm not that focused on competitive playing i play mostly him, McMourning and maybe Molly. From masters that nomoredroids mentioned i think only Lilith and maybe Lynch are kinda regulars here, and thats also not in this "top tier" of players. Titania and Von Schill i've seen played only for fun, and maybe in really specific match-ups on tournaments.

[nomoredroids]

9 minutes ago, duszy said:

The thing is - it depends on meta  I have a lot of arcanist players here, mostly Sandeep, Rasputina and Ironsides ( i think all of my last 5 or 6 games was against arcanists, and each time it was a different player  ). Frozen heart is hard counter for Seamus, Ironsides with mages and wards is also pain in the ass, and Sandeep is Sandeep. Still, because i think Nico and Reva are boring, both fluff and gameplay-wise (Reva especially), and i'm not that focused on competitive playing i play mostly him, McMourning and maybe Molly. From masters that nomoredroids mentioned i think only Lilith and maybe Lynch are kinda regulars here, and thats also not in this "top tier" of players. Titania and Von Schill i've seen played only for fun, and maybe in really specific match-ups on tournaments.

Against Rasputina, I just don't use Boo. The rest of the Wp duels -- and his auras -- still work fine. I just revert to the older modes of play. Mages can still pass/fail the Horror duels, they're just immune to the Paralyze condition until the one mage dies. But, yes, Arcanists are a harder set of models to work around. Fortunately Seamus is flexible. 

[McSkip]

I have to ask how you tend to do strategies and whats your favorit schemes?

[nomoredroids]

33 minutes ago, McSkip said:

I have to ask how you tend to do strategies and whats your favorit schemes?

Symbols is usually the easiest for this crew. It's all movement tricks and positioning. The Doxies are particularly good at it, and the clump around Seamus usually has a hard time doing anything. If nothing else, I can pull the mobile models into Belle range or stick'em on Yin, depending on the particulars. I think Public Executions is pretty easy for this group, too. Seamus can almost certainly score once, I can push other models into the Doxies for another condition off Pounce, and still can usually manage to Shikome something to death, too. Doxies with Ply usually surprise the opponent. In both cases, Chiaki can reliably pull the scoring conditions from opponents, so I usually end up tying or winning at the end-of-round. Supply Wagons with Asura and Carrion Emissary is an easy one to score out. Ours is probably the hardest, but if your opponent isn't super mobile activating your Doxies last and/or Seamus and pushing models where you want them to be after they've activated (ie on a center line or within 6" of the center) is a good way to go. 

I'm a big fan of Vendetta. Guess what has an 18" attack range and costs 5SS? Just choose a fragile support piece you want off the board anyway for 2 VP. If it's a tough pool I'll generally choose this one, and I'll usually just give up the 3rd VP unless Asura is on the board. Eliminate the Leadership occasionally gets taken by me, Covert Breakthrough if I want an excuse to run the Ice Dancers. Search the Ruins is easy for the Doxies, as they can place two Schemes a turn. Take One for the Team is situational. Public Demonstration is another good one. Set Up is a good choice with the Doxies, and adding Ice Dancers make it very easy. Taking Seamus's overlooked (0) on AKA Sebastian Baker means it's easier to score, too. Yin makes it even easier when the named model can't move. Recover Evidence with Doxies is a cake walk (Take the Lead pushes the opponent away and pushes your model toward the marker; often you can claim a marker and still have 1 AP). Punish the Weak is fairly easy with Seamus and DYKWIA. Guarded Treasure isn't great but I've taken it and managed to score 3 out. Yin usually sits around the center line and so does Asura/Chiaki, it's just that they're all frail and it paints a target on their back. A target I'd rather gets put on Seamus. I struggle to score Dig Their Graves, but that's just me. 

[McSkip]

Thank you for the reply! It`s a big scheme pool you can choose of, I like it!

Couple of further question:

1. do you activate Seamus early or first in 2nd round?

2. how do you get your doxies and belles in the middle fight as fast as possible?

3. you said you panicked vs Nekima the one game. what would have helped in this situation?

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

On 4/18/2018 at 2:50 PM, nomoredroids said:

No, no cheating. I often hold out on the Damage flip until I know it's most painful. Sometimes holding out too long...:P 

 

I mean, there's always situations where I do something different with Seamus. Some games I pop an important support model on Turn 1, but usually I setup the board for that so I can Back Alley in, Boo, and shoot. I don't usually summon with Seamus, and if I do it's Turn 1, from an enemy model. But I don't NOT summon with Seamus either, if you get me. 

So, on Yin. Damage isn't really her thing. She's not really a tank, either. I mean, sure, if she can engage a scheme runner, cool. Usually I just walk her around the board and hit things with the (0) until she's in Seamus's bubble, then use her triggers to port into somebody's engagement range. I use her solely to disrupt an opponent's big model. Because after getting hit with Gnawing Fear, they can't really attack any of the 'big' models bc of their Terrifying duels; they need to go after something small or run the very real risk of wasting a turn. And then I can easily play Belle Ping Pong with it. The best thing about Yin is she can activate early and Gnawing Fear, then not activate until late the next turn before needing to flip cards again. I like her for Guarded Treasure, too. The way I see it, if my 8SS model can shut down or lead to the death of one of your big linchpin models, then she's more than worth her points. 

The Hanged would be really good as a cheaper model. I love them so much, and I've run a lot of the Hanged. Unfortunately their damage isn't that high and they can't usually stay on the board for long. When Wave 5 came out I was running 2x Hanged with Seamus, and while they're effective, and they certainly scare the bejeesus out of some players, most players can just get rid of them without much issue, and giving up almost half my points to those things was heinous. I eventually dropped it to 1 then none. 

Dead Rider just isn't a model I like. 

I usually take Decaying Aura because of the non-healing bubble more than anything, because I'm usually butting heads with stuff you want to heal, but if Eliminate the Leadership is in the pool then it suddenly becomes worthwhile to start targeting the enemy master, even if I didn't take EtL. Seamus's min damage is 4 on his gun, and the 4 for Severe from DYKHIA means a lot of Masters are going to be hurting end of Turn 1 if I have my way. Plus, sometimes I get lucky. That said, it isn't an auto-take. But if I see Gremlins or 10-T, yeah, I'm gonna take Decaying Aura (getting into Ulix's face with Decaying Aura makes Ulix a sad panda). 

Gassers are really good for 4ss. With Shikome they're stupid good. 

Bishop's something I've not considered, actually. I like it. 

You should try out AKA Sebastian Baker for your third. Particularly for the ability to hire Cassandra. She works very well in a Seamus crew. I suspect Carlos with the Lampads will work pretty well, too, but that's speculative. 

 

Also: you shouldn't apologize for your English or your writing, it's wonderful. Thanks for the response.

OK, I answer now 'cause it needs me some time to write in English. 

Thanks for the argumentations, that' s a very useful topic. 

 

On summon:

Aye, I know what you mean. Seamus is an opportunistic summoner. If he has the card and no need or necessity to Booh someone, he doesn't waste a (0). That's basically on T1 for me and maybe once in a while on other turns. 

 

Yin:

On paper she seems amazing, but on my boards/in my games she feels always a little of a waste of ss. She simply underperforms. And I usually use her to debuff someone too, but.. Don't know, doesn't seem enough to justify the investment. 

 

Hanged:

I just played one a couple of times and worked fine. He's just too fragile for his cost or too expensive for his stats. As I suppose he's just from the beginning of M2E: cheap to summon, expensive to hire. 

 

Dead rider:

I've always loved the Death with Scythe theme. The Rider's model is a little disappointing, that's true. So I had an idea to make my own proxy, using Gw skeletons, who are lot better (the new ones, of course). I like how it came out and want to play it once in a while. With Seamus it has some more synergies than other masters. 

 

Decaying aura:

In my experience with Seamus I tend to focus on non ss users (cause he likes to focus and a well timed ss can neutralize the positive), so.. It never seemed a priority. I'll try him with it and see how it goes. 

 

Gassers are good and luckily newish. I've had little time to test them, and will surely try them out again. Shikomes.. I've really never played them with Seamus. They need a certain set up to work well (poison, adversary).. And if something goes wrong they don't force lots of wp duels. 

 

Bishop:

He's good, doesn't need support or set up to work well and is one of the few models who is supported and supports actively Seamus. He's not one of the hardest model to kill, but he's neither the easiest. A 6/6 is a good defence, and with an extra ss the Necrotic Preparation upgrade isn't bad at all. He's an investment, but a good one. He usually goes in on T2 to destroy one model in Seamus'aura. 

 

Aka Sebastian.. :

I don't really like Cassandra. She's one of the model I don't enjoy playing. 

Said that, I find her a solid model on her own, but struggle to see where she would synergize with Seamus. She doesn't force a single wp. 

The upgrade itself is quite good actually; the ability to summon performers in some pool is great, as it's (0). Situational, but good. 

 

I think my next list will be built around double Shikome and Gassers, to try them out more. 

Byez

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

57 minutes ago, McSkip said:

Thank you for the reply! It`s a big scheme pool you can choose of, I like it!

Couple of further question:

1. do you activate Seamus early or first in 2nd round?

2. how do you get your doxies and belles in the middle fight as fast as possible?

3. you said you panicked vs Nekima the one game. what would have helped in this situation?

If it's not a problem, I'll try to give my answer to these. 

1- Seamus is opportunist by nature. I don't find A time to activate him. Usually if He's in danger, or needs (or has the opportunity) to destroy a key model or needs to be in position, he'll activate early. If he's in a safe position, can wait some time.

"booh" is great for force the opponent to discard his hand.. And even better to paralyze his model once the hand is empty. 

So.. It depends on the situation, really. 

 

2- doxies are naturally nearer the enemies than belles. And belles and doxies can easily reposition themselves with Lures and Take the Lead. That's not really a problem. Or you can just force the opponent to come at you, instead (a defensive play is great in strategies like Ply or Public  Ex, for example). 

 

3- that happened to me once, too. I suppose he just thrown away a stone or two to prevent damage from Nekima's big sword and found himself out of ss when the black blood (0) came. 

Nekima on a charge can't kill Seamus without BB, as he has the great defence of HtK. So, the ss are usually better spent to prevent the two 1 dmg pulses when he's on a single wound. 

 

IMHO, of course

[nomoredroids]

10 minutes ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

OK, I answer now 'cause it needs me some time to write in English. 

Thanks for the argumentations, that' s a very useful topic. 

 

On summon:

Aye, I know what you mean. Seamus is an opportunistic summoner. If he has the card and no need or necessity to Booh someone, he doesn't waste a (0). That's basically on T1 for me and maybe once in a while on other turns. 

 

Yin:

On paper she seems amazing, but on my boards/in my games she feels always a little of a waste of ss. She simply underperforms. And I usually use her to debuff someone too, but.. Don't know, doesn't seem enough to justify the investment. 

 

Hanged:

I just played one a couple of times and worked fine. He's just too fragile for his cost or too expensive for his stats. As I suppose he's just from the beginning of M2E: cheap to summon, expensive to hire. 

 

Dead rider:

I've always loved the Death with Scythe theme. The Rider's model is a little disappointing, that's true. So I had an idea to make my own proxy, using Gw skeletons, who are lot better (the new ones, of course). I like how it came out and want to play it once in a while. With Seamus it has some more synergies than other masters. 

 

Decaying aura:

In my experience with Seamus I tend to focus on non ss users (cause he likes to focus and a well timed ss can neutralize the positive), so.. It never seemed a priority. I'll try him with it and see how it goes. 

 

Gassers are good and luckily newish. I've had little time to test them, and will surely try them out again. Shikomes.. I've really never played them with Seamus. They need a certain set up to work well (poison, adversary).. And if something goes wrong they don't force lots of wp duels. 

 

Bishop:

 He's good, doesn't need support or set up to work well and is one of the few models who is supported and supports actively Seamus. He's not one of the hardest model to kill, but he's neither the easiest. A 6/6 is a good defence, and with an extra ss the Necrotic Preparation upgrade isn't bad at all. He's an investment, but a good one. He usually goes in on T2 to destroy one model in Seamus'aura. 

  

 Aka Sebastian.. :

I don't really like Cassandra. She's one of the model I don't enjoy playing. 

Said that, I find her a solid model on her own, but struggle to see where she would synergize with Seamus. She doesn't force a single wp. 

The upgrade itself is quite good actually; the ability to summon performers in some pool is great, as it's (0). Situational, but good. 

 

 I think my next list will be built around double Shikome and Gassers, to try them out more. 

Byez

You're right about the shikome, they've got a (0) to hand out Adversary, but I find them useful even without poison. This is why they're really great, but not an auto-take. 

Cassandra is a solid beater that forces neg twists. When you take AKA you can also take Performers, and I've often used Cass to attack, stone for Understudy, pull in an important model that then is paralyzed from the Performer's attack, attack something else to push away, then Nimble to walk up the board. If I've got that high crow I usually Nimble to position first, so she can pull something in and paralyze it. If I really want it I stone for the Paralysis. And that's the real beauty of Cass in a Seamus crew: Seamus doesn't need too many stones, and Cass can stone for the triggers she wants with impunity, while she beats on something. She synergizes with the Hanged very well, too, and can take the Carrion Emissary's Ca 6 min 3 attack as well. She's great in Symbols, and helps accomplish a ton of different schemes.