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DonCheadle

What is our Answer to Sonnia?

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Hey everyone, 

I've got a grudgematch against my Store Owner / local Guild player coming up, we rolled Ours and Sonnia is looking pretty fine in the pool

Deployment: Flank Deployment (11) Strategy: Ours (Crows)

Schemes:

* Guarded Treasure (Crows)

* Covert Breakthrough (1)

* Undercover Entourage (5)

* Search the Ruins (8)

* Take Prisoner (9)

Quite a lot of our models have 6 WP, and I have some concerns that I'll be blasted off the board with little counterplay, especially since I have no experience against her. 

Of course YasNas flap flap headchopping is an option, but that aside, how do we as TT go about playing against Sonnia and other Blast heavy masters? 

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I’ve found pushes and large engagement ranges to be very useful.  Sonia can’t blast if she’s engaged.  You can push models into her or her into your models.  I find Sensei Yu to be good for this.  

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I guess on this one I would probably try to go in hard and fast round 1 with Misaki or Yasunori. Either can have fast and a couple of pushes to get around the inevitable flame wall. Sonnia, if you can get to her, isn't a very hard target. She's susceptible to bisento since she's probably dropped two cards for her zero action. If you've spread out a bit and she blasts a model or two off the table she is probably down to a 1-2 card hand late in round one. You're going to get blasted, but if you spread out you can mitigate the damage to 2 models. 

The other thing you can do is snipe some support off the table. With a sniper in a Shenlong list you can take Papa Loco off the board in round one son Sonnia doesn't get her plus flips to damage. 

It might be a nice time for Smoke & Shadows. If you have the cards you can pull up to three models off of the table (including jorogumo) and drop them next to Sonnia at the end of the round. 

 

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Alpha strike is the only way to win against her I'm afraid. Keeping her engaged may not work if your opponent brings Guild Investigator. Try to kill him as fast as possible, as he grants her free pushes from everyone in the crew.

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Misaki would be quite the consideration, but sadly I do not own her. I'm currently considering Mei Feng (double vent steam should protect me quite well) and Asami (WP5 and Murdermonkeys + YasNas on 1AP charges should dismantle Sonnia nicely). 

Investigator makes both of these a lil iffy as they'll remove crucial markers. 

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I played against a Sonnia crew today. It was Sonnia w/Counterspell, No More Masks, Reincarnation, Francisco w/Wade In & Hermanos, The Judge w/LLC, the Jury w/LLC, Witchling Handler, Brutal Effigy, and Guild Guard x 2. I played Shen Long w/Wandering River Style, Peasant (summon the 2nd 1 first round with a Miracle), Sensei Yu w/Promising Disciple, Ohaguro Bettari w/Taste of Flesh, Yamaziko w/Smoke & Shadows, Izamu, and Dawn Serpent....not an ideal list but I don't like playing unpainted models and my Shadow Emissary and some other stuff is still on the painting table. 

My method of dealing with Sonnia was pushing a fast Izamu into her face. I would have felt better about it with Recalled Training as well but couldn't fit it into the list. That would probably be the best answer- with recalled training and some focus from the Peasants, a fast Izamu has pretty good odds of taking her down. Bettari would have been my other option- only 3 x attacks with her when she is fast but with focus or Flay an a higher Severe Damage she could get the job done too. The nice part with her is she doesn't need LOS for the charge so you can push her up into a sheltered position (terrain depending). 

You could do something like Shen, Killjoy, Sensei Yu (or Graves), and season to taste with cheap activations (like Tanuki) and Yamaziko and then just try load up Killjoy with focus and fast and push him down her throat. Take Covert Breakthrough and Undercover Entourage so you can focus on positioning to take out Sonnia and scheme later. 

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47 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

I played against a Sonnia crew today. It was Sonnia w/Counterspell, No More Masks, Reincarnation, Francisco w/Wade In & Hermanos, The Judge w/LLC, the Jury w/LLC, Witchling Handler, Brutal Effigy, and Guild Guard x 2. I played Shen Long w/Wandering River Style, Peasant (summon the 2nd 1 first round with a Miracle), Sensei Yu w/Promising Disciple, Ohaguro Bettari w/Taste of Flesh, Yamaziko w/Smoke & Shadows, Izamu, and Dawn Serpent....not an ideal list but I don't like playing unpainted models and my Shadow Emissary and some other stuff is still on the painting table. 

My method of dealing with Sonnia was pushing a fast Izamu into her face. I would have felt better about it with Recalled Training as well but couldn't fit it into the list. That would probably be the best answer- with recalled training and some focus from the Peasants, a fast Izamu has pretty good odds of taking her down. Bettari would have been my other option- only 3 x attacks with her when she is fast but with focus or Flay an a higher Severe Damage she could get the job done too. The nice part with her is she doesn't need LOS for the charge so you can push her up into a sheltered position (terrain depending). 

You could do something like Shen, Killjoy, Sensei Yu (or Graves), and season to taste with cheap activations (like Tanuki) and Yamaziko and then just try load up Killjoy with focus and fast and push him down her throat. Take Covert Breakthrough and Undercover Entourage so you can focus on positioning to take out Sonnia and scheme later. 

Nice! No love for Smoke Grenades? 

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2 hours ago, thewrathchilde said:

I played Shen Long w/Wandering River Style, Peasant (summon the 2nd 1 first round with a Miracle), Sensei Yu w/Promising Disciple, Ohaguro Bettari w/Taste of Flesh, Yamaziko w/Smoke & Shadows, Izamu, and Dawn Serpent....

Why Smoke & Shadows ? It works for Last-Blossom minions only, not for Yamasiko.

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@DonCheadle and @bedjy, sorry that should have been Smoke Grenades not Smoke & Shadows. 😀

Once I finish painting my Emissary though I think she will usually end up with just Hidden Agenda so she at least “has an upgrade” so the Emissary can make her fast though I do like Smoke Genades on her on the flank. 

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McCabe, Shadow Emissary, Yas, TerraC. 

Badge of Speed on Emissary (after deployment via Conflux of Exploration). 
Toss it to Yas, he pushes, he is fast. Now he is nimble and fast. He threatens most of the board. Sonnia can't hide. 
Or... you could use Strongarm Suit. He can't be tied up and blasts do nothing. 

Shen sniper crew is glorious. Two Katanaka Snipers can put tons of pressure on her with two focus shots a piece to start the game. Get some cover. Activate them early. Sue is great in a Shenlong list for the spell bubble. 

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1 hour ago, NulSec said:

McCabe, Shadow Emissary, Yas, TerraC. 

Badge of Speed on Emissary (after deployment via Conflux of Exploration). 
Toss it to Yas, he pushes, he is fast. Now he is nimble and fast. He threatens most of the board. Sonnia can't hide. 
Or... you could use Strongarm Suit. He can't be tied up and blasts do nothing. 

Shen sniper crew is glorious. Two Katanaka Snipers can put tons of pressure on her with two focus shots a piece to start the game. Get some cover. Activate them early. Sue is great in a Shenlong list for the spell bubble. 

Ha those are the exact two lists I usually bring when I'm being lazy and want to win. 

I could consider proxying Sue (he seems to find a space in most lists these days) but since Sonnia is on + flips anyways due to high WP I think I won't be bringing him this time. 

The issue I predict with Shenlong Snipers is that they tend to clump up, which is fresh meat to a blaster like Sonnia (if she can get to them, of course, but I'd rather no risk it). 

I think McCabe is a good way to do it. Sabre Minions should make short work of Monster Hunters as well. 

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I would shit my pants if I came up against McCabe with Yas when I play Sonnia. It should pretty much get her in a single charge and can hide behind a house until you are ready to get at her.

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Gwyneth is a nice annoyance piece against her.

 

Smoke & Shadows to block her LoS. 

 

Sniper spam to out-range her

 

Unless they take a queller, armor+2 models are great as well (izamu, samurai w extra wounds or walk, strongarm, Lazarus)

Beware bubbling up under vent steam as a Marshall can deliver papa and he will kill everything in the bubble with his pulse DMG

Htw/itw models to mitigate blasts

 

Wokou raiders would make a nice secondary alpha strike piece as their ability can help keep enemies pinned when they drop schemes to push via the investigator

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50 SS Ten Thunders Crew
Mei Feng + 6 Pool
 - Seismic Claws (1)
 - Misdirection (2)
 - Recalled Training (1)
Emberling (3)
Toshiro The Daimyo (9)
 - Command The Graves (1)
Yasunori (13)
 - Smoke Grenades (1)
Shadow Emissary (10)
 - Conflux of Combat (0)
Mechanized Porkchop (6)

This is a list I'd be considering. Bit low in activation count, but summoning a few Komainu's should make up for it. 

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Quite like Yan Lo with a Goryo. Spiritual Protection from a summoned Seishen can really blunt her alpha strike.

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On 4/9/2018 at 11:29 PM, DonCheadle said:

The issue I predict with Shenlong Snipers is that they tend to clump up, which is fresh meat to a blaster like Sonnia (if she can get to them, of course, but I'd rather no risk it). 

When I've run snipers with Shen, I always try to keep them 8-10" apart or so for this very reason. No need to clump most of the time.

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A key thing to remember is that her blasts are just shy of 8".  She gets a 2" walk off the target and 150mm which is 5.9" so if you are 8"+ apart, she cannot reach you. Period. I use an 8" stick to measure now when I'm trying to do that.

Alternatively a buddy of mine recently got a "Sonnia" blast template for measuring (https://www.etsy.com/listing/504316960/malifaux-magnetized-sonnia-criid-blast) so he can verify how his models might get caught. 

Another thing to note would be is Papa present or not?  If Papa Loco is in there crew, then you need to play way more aggressive and/or cagey then if he's not.  HtW mitigates a lot of what Sonnia can do if she's by herself. But :+flipto damage flips on her is a pretty big deal.  It means you have to cheat aggressively to get her on negatives even with HtW, and I feel is second biggest adjustment to how to deal with her beyond learning how to cope with No More Masks. 

I've had really good success with Yan Lo into Sonnia, not so much with anyone else :P 

I tried Mei Fang, but Sonnia can blast off melee, so that's not a feature. Yeah she may not want to be there always, but if you're turtling up, it could very well be worth it to charge in and blast 3 times. 

Spreading out and getting her isolated seems to have worked the best for me. Crime Bosses seem like they could be solid counters. They're HtW with a really solid heal and can't be lured by the belle that is most likely there with the Domador. 

Fuhatsu is strong, as he's Armor 2 and HtW which basically forces the Sonnia player to focus or use papa if they want to capitalize on his def 4.  Even on Ca9, they get to a 22 on a 13. You just need to get to 12 to force the negative, which takes an 8 (puts them on a straight + HtW). With his armor, she needs 3 hits at severe to take him out, assuming you don't stone. And can heal. He's very much theorycraft for me right now, but the last 2 times I've taken him out for a spin, he's done far better than I would have expected.  

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