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Skill Triggers


Gronin

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Forgive me for the longish post but skill triggers are driving me nuts -- in particular triggers associated with spell casting skills.  Please feel free to correct me anywhere I am in error.

To start with triggers are made available for learning/knowing at skill ranks 3 and 5 so I am assuming that the most any character can have in any skill is 2 triggers

For a regular non-spell casting skill a trigger is activated if three conditions are met. First, the correct suit is flipped on the duel, second the character knows the particular trigger in question and finally, the conditions (after succeeding, after damaging, after failing, etc.) are met.  You can pick any triggers to learn as there is no specific suite needed for success with non-spellcasting skills.

For spell casting skills success is determined by beating a spell target number (in a particular suit associated with each type of spell casting) and beating any target number (defense value) that the target may have.  It is therefore possible for a spell to be successfully cast without having the desired effect on the target. 

My first question then is if you beat a target number, let's use the Sorcery Spell Elemental Engulf as an example, so you cast and pull an 8 tomes beating the 7 tomes required but don't beat the defence value of the target which is 10 -- have you succeeded in casting the spell and are then eligible to use Sorcery tomes trigger of Telekinetic Shove which has the "after succeeding" requirement.

My second question is what is the intent of having spell triggers for the spell casting skills?  Obviously you would take the trigger that is associated with the skill, in the case of Sorcery it would be Tomes.  It would only be if you took the Immuto "Additional Suit" that any other trigger would make sense.

Am I missing something?

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14 hours ago, Gronin said:

Forgive me for the longish post but skill triggers are driving me nuts -- in particular triggers associated with spell casting skills.  Please feel free to correct me anywhere I am in error.

To start with triggers are made available for learning/knowing at skill ranks 3 and 5 so I am assuming that the most any character can have in any skill is 2 triggers

You can only get two triggers from the mechanism described on page 190.  Other mechanics, such as talents or pursuits, could grant additional triggers to the skills.  I haven't checked if any currently do.

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For a regular non-spell casting skill a trigger is activated if three conditions are met. First, the correct suit is flipped on the duel, second the character knows the particular trigger in question and finally, the conditions (after succeeding, after damaging, after failing, etc.) are met.  You can pick any triggers to learn as there is no specific suite needed for success with non-spellcasting skills.

For spell casting skills success is determined by beating a spell target number (in a particular suit associated with each type of spell casting) and beating any target number (defense value) that the target may have.  It is therefore possible for a spell to be successfully cast without having the desired effect on the target. 

No.  If a spell has a TN and a resist value, then both have to be met for the spell to be cast successfully.

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My first question then is if you beat a target number, let's use the Sorcery Spell Elemental Engulf as an example, so you cast and pull an 8 tomes beating the 7 tomes required but don't beat the defence value of the target which is 10 -- have you succeeded in casting the spell and are then eligible to use Sorcery tomes trigger of Telekinetic Shove which has the "after succeeding" requirement.

Nope, if you don't equal or exceed the defense value of 10, that's not a success so you don't get "after succeeding".

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My second question is what is the intent of having spell triggers for the spell casting skills?  Obviously you would take the trigger that is associated with the skill, in the case of Sorcery it would be Tomes.  It would only be if you took the Immuto "Additional Suit" that any other trigger would make sense.

Various other abilities and effects can grant additional suits for a duel.  For instance, the Pillars of Heaven magic theory.  Or the Death Ascendant state for Grave Servant that adds :ToS-Crow: to all of the characters magic skill totals.  

Otherwise, yeah, one of the main ways you'd be getting those other suits is through the Additional Suit immuto, so that you're increasing the TN by a few points to get an optional effect applied to the spell.

That the various skills are going to be biased towards different triggers as easier or harder to accomplish is deliberate, I think.

Edit:  Description of Additional Suit immuto is wrong.

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There are lots of ways to add suits. you can easily get multiple suits on a sorcery and necromancy. Rank 3 in dabbler and graveribber can give you one free suit for those skills. Then there is a general talent that gives a chosen suit to a chosen skill (unlocks once you are fated 2). Then overseer allows you to discard a card to add that suit. I think you can use a soul stone for an additional suit of your choice. Plus your actually flipped card (which you can maybe cheat to switch suit) would then be 5 suits!

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I thought the Additional suit immuto decreased the tn of spells but required you to get another suit to successfully cast, rather than giving you another suit on the flip for triggers etc (I haven’t got the book with me though).

Is there an immuto to change the suit requirement on a magia? That might make triggers easier I guess.

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26 minutes ago, diki said:

I thought the Additional suit immuto decreased the tn of spells but required you to get another suit to successfully cast, rather than giving you another suit on the flip for triggers etc (I haven’t got the book with me though).

Is there an immuto to change the suit requirement on a magia? That might make triggers easier I guess.

No, you're right about Additional Suit making it symbolically harder while lowering the TN.  I forgot what it did and assumed the original poster had the description right.  😓

 

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