New Master - Misaki Synergy (Brainstorm)

[Cadaver_Junkie]

Hi All,

New to Ten Thunders, haven't played a game. I've played a few with Brewmaster as a Gremlin and think I have his game sorted.

Just grabbed Misaki's box and a few 'associates', have been perusing the new cards.
I'm looking for help with synergies! Things to prepare me for my first few games.
What is great? What is underwhelming? What looks good on paper but doesn't work? What looks bad and is actually awesome?

Anyone have any synergies for the below models they would like to share?

I have:

Misaki
Ototo
Shang
3x Torakage
1x Oiran
Yamaziko
3x Fermented River Monk
3x Wandering River Monk
3x Wokou Raider
2x Katanaka Crime Boss
Shadow Emissary
3x Performers
3x Akaname
4x Tanuki
Note: I'm not going to buy any more models for some time

First thoughts for list backbone:
2x Wokou Raiders, Katanaka Crime Boss,  Shadow Emissary with Shadow Conflux and a Perfomer. Probably Yamaziko with Smoke & Shadows and Shang.

• Card Draw Engine (Raider + Crime Boss)
• Good scheme marker targets for the Performer
• Excellent placement for charges or into direct combat for the raiders (Smoke & Shadows)
• Triple flips on the attack for the raiders (Shadow Conflux)
• Main theme of list doesn’t rely on Misaki, she will aim for additional kills around the fringes or providing fantastic placement for the Wokou Raiders via Smoke & Shadows.

EDIT: Welp, can't fit the performer. I could if I remove one of the raiders, although probably better to keep it at two for now.

 

[Rathnard]

Misaki's actually one of my favorite Masters to play. On the surface she seems pretty simplistic - just ninja-flip into combat and start lopping off heads. But there's alot more to her playstyle than that, especially if you want to use her well.

The way I see it,  there's a few (not mutually exclusive) ways to play Misaki and her crew;

 

1. Misaki the Loner

Basically build a crew that's going to get the job done and score you VPs, then equip and play her as an independent murder machine. The benefit is that she's pretty good at killing things and with your crew not relying on her being around, it won't matter too much if she dies. In this way you can treat her almost as an expendable missile. 

 

2. Smoke and Shadows

Build a Last Blossom crew that will let you use Smoke and Shadows to both throw up cover and teleport powerful minions like the Wokou Raiders or Jorogumo around the table. This seems pretty good on paper, but in practice I've found it to be not worth the trouble. IIRC you need a Mask to get the teleport off (which competes with Misdirection, if you take it) so at best you're only teleporting a few models around over the course of the game. And at least in the games I've tried it, it's never done anything for me. Still, if you want to give it a shot, go for broke. ;)

 

3. Alpha Strike Misaki

Ten Thunders are pretty good at throwing around AP and push effects to friendly models, and with Misaki you can really take advantage of this to turn her into a super-charged killing machine. Basically you take models like the Shadow Emissary, Mr Graves and Senesei Yu to push her up the table, give her additional AP when she activates and sometimes even apply additional buffs. Then when she activates, she charges into the enemy crew and kills their key model/s with her glut of AP and buffs before your opponent has a chance to properly retaliate. Like any Alpha Strike it can be devastating when it goes right, but if it fails or she doesn't kill enough, you'll likely find yourself with a dead Misaki and a crew that isn't really equipped to handle the opponent without their Master. To be fair, this is a playstyle with Misaki that's discussed online alot. I'm not personally a fan though. It just feels too much like putting all your eggs in one basket, which is why I prefer to build a crew that complements, but isn't dependent on Misaki. 

 

4. Discard Misaki

One of Misaki's best tricks is her Assassinate trigger to auto-kill anyone who doesn't discard two cards or soulstones. It's potentially devastating, but becomes less so if your opponent has a hand full of cards (especially considering the suit requirements of activating the trigger). So if you really want to take advantage of Misaki's Assassination trigger, the best approach is to build a crew that can force as much cheating and discard effects on your opponent as possible. Obvious examples are the likes of Yamaziko or Misaki's own Misdirection upgrade, but attacks that your opponent simply MUST win help alot too. Oiran can be good at this with their Ca 8 Lure (even if you don't have the suit, just the threat of it can be enough to force your opponent to cheat), as are my favourite models in the Faction - Samurai (the damage they take if they miss their Gatling Gun attack can make it very tempting to cheat). Attacks with a natural positive to the flip can be great too, since you're more likely to win the initial flip and force your opponent to decide whether to cheat first. 

All of this can whittle down your opponents hand for a potential Assassination run with Misaki but perhaps more importantly, it encourages your opponent to be really cagey with their conytrol hand. They're less likely to use effects that require them to discard a card, or cheat duels they might otherwise want to win. So as long as even the threat of an Assassination run is there, you're crew is already at an advantage vs your opponent. This is my preferred playstyle for Misaki, and it's why she's my favourite Master in the game. ;)

 

---

To be honest t's been a while since i pulled out my Ten Thunders so I'm a little rusty on what everything does (mainly with the newer models). But from what you've got in your collection you seem to have all the elements for a solid Misaki crew. 

Given my preference for Discard Misaki, my immediate inclination is to grab the Oiran and Yamaziko (minus Smoke and Shadows ;) ). Then the Shadow Emissary (because it's just amazing, even before taking the Misaki Conflux) and some combination of the Crime Bosses and Wokou Raiders. Then I'd spend the last few SS on a few cheap models (Shang and/or Tanuki are my preference) for support, scheme running and to pad out the activations (you generally want 8 activations, 7 at minimum).

Of the others, Performers might find a place as a scheme/anti-scheme runner, especially with the Oiran's trigger on her attack to make Showgirls untargetable. Akaname and Fermented Monks play pretty well together and Wandering River Monks are great for scheme running.  Ototo is a nice melee tank, but you might want some healing to go with him to make sure he doesn't die too quickly. Torakage are cool, but they've proved as useful as they look on paper for me. 

[DonCheadle]

On the topic of AS Misaki, what mandates that she's your only hitting model?  In TT we have the luxury of many quick models and as such I believe using her as a lone missile is, if nothing else, wasteful. 

 

They may be able to handle Misaki by her lonesome, but her, Yasunori and perhaps even another mid-sized beater striking at once?I have severe doubts. 

As for the Wokou/Crime Boss synergy, I believe (though this is purely theoretical) that Sensei Yu adds a ton as you can place the markers over and over with Mighty Gust to draw 6 cards per activation. The ShEmSem is also very good without a doubt, but Yu is what makes that interaction into an obscene exploitation of the ruleset. 

[Cadaver_Junkie]

On 23/03/2018 at 1:47 AM, Rathnard said:

Misaki's actually one of my favorite Masters to play.

--- 

Given my preference for Discard Misaki, my immediate inclination is to grab the Oiran and Yamaziko (minus Smoke and Shadows ). Then the Shadow Emissary (because it's just amazing, even before taking the Misaki Conflux) and some combination of the Crime Bosses and Wokou Raiders. Then I'd spend the last few SS on a few cheap models (Shang and/or Tanuki are my preference) for support, scheme running and to pad out the activations (you generally want 8 activations, 7 at minimum). 

Of the others, Performers might find a place as a scheme/anti-scheme runner, especially with the Oiran's trigger on her attack to make Showgirls untargetable. Akaname and Fermented Monks play pretty well together and Wandering River Monks are great for scheme running.  Ototo is a nice melee tank, but you might want some healing to go with him to make sure he doesn't die too quickly. Torakage are cool, but they've proved as useful as they look on paper for me. 

Quite a reply there! Thank you! 

Misaki the Loner - pretty much how I'd originally intended to play her. Although, that's how I play Zipp, and so I might want to try Discard Misaki instead.
Which upgrades would you likely choose for this style? 
I'm guessing Misdirection, Stalking Bisento and Recalled Training? Would you consider Cutpurse if you want to kill the other master, to reduce your opponent's soulstone cache protection against Assassination? I'm guessing your opponent would either cheat to avoid you stealing a soulstone, or simply spend one so you're less likely to have it yourself, both great outcomes even if you don't succeed on the pilfer trigger. If you succeed you can spend it immediately to add two crows to the next attack.

I'm liking the discard Misaki style. Maybe this makes Ototo a better choice, due to his pulse Thunderstrike to force some cheating. Very situational though...

 

On 23/03/2018 at 2:13 AM, DonCheadle said:

On the topic of AS Misaki, what mandates that she's your only hitting model?  In TT we have the luxury of many quick models and as such I believe using her as a lone missile is, if nothing else, wasteful. 

 

They may be able to handle Misaki by her lonesome, but her, Yasunori and perhaps even another mid-sized beater striking at once?I have severe doubts. 

As for the Wokou/Crime Boss synergy, I believe (though this is purely theoretical) that Sensei Yu adds a ton as you can place the markers over and over with Mighty Gust to draw 6 cards per activation. The ShEmSem is also very good without a doubt, but Yu is what makes that interaction into an obscene exploitation of the ruleset. 

Sensei Yu does seem to create an absurdity of card draw. I don't really want to buy the Temple of the Dawn box set just for one model though, so maybe if an alternate is ever released.
Also not that interested in Yasunori - the model doesn't do it for me. Might change my mind when I actually look at one in person though, like so many other Malifaux minis.

[WWHSD]

On 3/22/2018 at 9:47 AM, Rathnard said:

... as are my favourite models in the Faction - Samurai (the damage they take if they miss their Gatling Gun attack can make it very tempting to cheat). 

What upgrades are you typically taking on your Samurai instead of Favor of Jigoku or do you commonly hire more than one of them?

[Hargus56]

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

What upgrades are you typically taking on your Samurai instead of Favor of Jigoku or do you commonly hire more than one of them?

I like Earth.  Jigoku would defeat the purpose of enticing your opponent to cheat.  Earth would increase the number of times you can entice them to cheat.

[WWHSD]

7 hours ago, Hargus56 said:

I like Earth.  Jigoku would defeat the purpose of enticing your opponent to cheat.  Earth would increase the number of times you can entice them to cheat.

I guess I’m not sold on the value of hiring an 8 point model whose entire purpose is to make your opponent cheat 2 or 3 cards in a game. 

It seems like at 5 stones, something like a Charm Warder or Bunraku would be as good at enticing your opponent to cheat without more or less sacrificing your model when they do so. At 6 points, I’d think that Tannen would be almost an auto-include in a crew that’s trying to drain their opponent’s hand.

[Hargus56]

16 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I guess I’m not sold on the value of hiring an 8 point model whose entire purpose is to make your opponent cheat 2 or 3 cards in a game. 

It seems like at 5 stones, something like a Charm Warder or Bunraku would be as good at enticing your opponent to cheat without more or less sacrificing your model when they do so. At 6 points, I’d think that Tannen would be almost an auto-include in a crew that’s trying to drain their opponent’s hand.

Yeah I agree.  I was just throwing out what I typically run and a 9 Wd Armor 2 model is just a pain in the butt to deal with.  And with a triple positive and high cards in hand you can throw out shooting attacks against low Df models even in cover.

I would say a better option for a Discard Misaki would be Lotus Eaters with their Threaten Attack.  They also seem all around solid with scheme removal and healing shenanigans.  Agressive Stance has some synergy with Misaki as well.

[Rathnard]

23 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I guess I’m not sold on the value of hiring an 8 point model whose entire purpose is to make your opponent cheat 2 or 3 cards in a game.

The Samurai is great not solely because it encourages your opponent to cheat, but because (with the Earth upgrade) he's an absolute tank and a threat at any range. At melee he's got an armour-ignoring sword, then at range he's got a Gatling gun that can put out some obscene damage at 14" thanks to it's raking fire trigger. Honestly with a triple positive it's not that hard to keep flipping/cheating rams to hit 2-3 models per AP.

As for encouraging your opponent to cheat, it's just one half of a win-win situation for you. If they cheat and you miss (remember with a triple positive they're usually cheating first) then they're one card closer to a Misaki Assassination run and the damage on an Earth Samurai is not enough to neuter them. 5 Wounds with Armour 2 is still hard to get through and you can recover the damage with a Low River Monk or Obsidian Oni. But if they choose to save their card and not cheat, they've just made it easier for you to keep shooting their models up with your Raking Fire trigger. So the Samurai is either emptying their hand, or your opponent is willingly letting you win duels to deal more damage to them. Win-Win.

 

The Lotus Eater looks like a good addition for Discard Misaki, but I wouldn't say it replaces the Samurai at all. My approach with Discard Misaki is to build a crew that can force cheating/discards early and often. With his 14" Gatling Gun the Samurai is perfect for this. In most games he's opening up on targets from Turn 1 (with 1-2 pushes from the likes of Lust or Mr Graves), whereas the Lotus Eater instead has to waste AP getting within 6" to start throwing out Threaten attacks. Not to mention that shooters like the Samurai encourage your opponent to come to you (as opposed to you chasing them down), which is a big advantage in its own right. 

 

I'm not saying the Lotus Eater is a poor choice. In fact once they're out I'm pretty tempted to try them in a more scheme marker-focused Misaki crew. But it definitely doesn't outright replace the Samurai. IMO he just offers too much to a Discard-Misaki crew. 

[DonCheadle]

I do love Samurai for what it's worth (though I've never taken Earth over Hell), but if you're pushing him you gotta remember that that's further investment. 

I think the Eaters definitely have a spot with Misaki, as they're cheaper than the Crime Bosses and provide the same kind of aura. 

[WWHSD]

2 hours ago, Rathnard said:

I'm not saying the Lotus Eater is a poor choice. In fact once they're out I'm pretty tempted to try them in a more scheme marker-focused Misaki crew.

FYI - My FLGS just got in Lotus Eaters.

[Cadaver_Junkie]

7 hours ago, WWHSD said:

FYI - My FLGS just got in Lotus Eaters.

Will have to really consider these guys... might get a couple of games in first though

[Da Git]

3 hours ago, Cadaver_Junkie said:

Will have to really consider these guys... might get a couple of games in first though

Madness!  Buy all the toys!

11 hours ago, DonCheadle said:

I do love Samurai for what it's worth (though I've never taken Earth over Hell), but if you're pushing him you gotta remember that that's further investment. 

I think the Eaters definitely have a spot with Misaki, as they're cheaper than the Crime Bosses and provide the same kind of aura. 

I also really like Jikoku, especially with other masters (I love him with Asami); but if you're going the discard route, then I think Earth is the better choice as he actually encourages your opponent to cheat so much more for that juicy 4dg.  Also, if Earth fails once, it's only one less wd than Jikoku has to begin with.  10T do have a fair bit of healing potential with Sun, LR Monks, Chiaki and Obsidian Oni so recouping that damage isn't the end of the world.

I'd say that Lotus Eaters' & Crime Bosses' roles are totally different.  That Threaten action looks super gravy though . I really want to test them out!

[Cadaver_Junkie]

33 minutes ago, Da Git said:

Madness!  Buy all the toys!

Ha! 

 

In time... yeah most likely. Damn you Wyrd for slapping together such awesome plastic

[DonCheadle]

Not to derail this thread, but Samurai upgrades have been a matter that I wanted to discuss for a while now. 

I think Jigoku is absolutely fine (and even has some interesting interactions such as ignoring hazardous and Fears Given Form) but Earth is slightly underwhelming and Heavens....well Heavens needs a lot of help. 

For the longest time I'd have argued that Earth could be worth 4 wd instead of 3. This would make for a tougher choice between the two, but if you're planning on gunning all game long Jigoku remains the superior choice. Now, another big weakness of Samurai is their low WP, so perhaps +1WP might be a prudent choice for the Earth role over adding more wounds to an already rather durable model, further increasing the staying power and sturdyness of the Earth Samurai. 

As for Heavens, you could of course just increase the stats to make it competitive, but I think it would be nice to see a buff to using the melee (or perhaps even the run through action, giving + to the attack and damage flip would go a long way). 

[Dr Mittens]

One thing I feel the need to add as nobody has mentioned it is Misaki's synergy with low mobility models.

Sure, cruise missile Misaki needs teammates who can catch up, but her downburst post buff is one of the most underrated abilities in the entire game.

Pushing a group of +4 other models and herself 8 inches up field with (2)AP is unmatched in ten thunders for group mobility and allows you to patch the supposed weakness of models like the samurai and izamu. Pushing a unit 20 inches with Shenlong is strong, but getting your army to mid in the first turn gives you excellent control over the board

Coupled with the samurai's ability to laugh at cover, and you can force your enemy to catch up to your 4 walk instead of the other way around.

[Cadaver_Junkie]

2 hours ago, Dr Mittens said:

One thing I feel the need to add as nobody has mentioned it is Misaki's synergy with low mobility models.

Sure, cruise missile Misaki needs teammates who can catch up, but her downburst post buff is one of the most underrated abilities in the entire game.

Pushing a group of +4 other models and herself 8 inches up field with (2)AP is unmatched in ten thunders for group mobility and allows you to patch the supposed weakness of models like the samurai and izamu. Pushing a unit 20 inches with Shenlong is strong, but getting your army to mid in the first turn gives you excellent control over the board

Coupled with the samurai's ability to laugh at cover, and you can force your enemy to catch up to your 4 walk instead of the other way around.

Isn't that push difficult to manage, as you have to push in a straight line directly away from the original target? (i.e. they'll push out in a circle, not straight up the board) I can see it being useful for the first push, not sure sure about the second?

Edit: Maybe I'm wrong about that, I suppose if the models are all very close together - and smaller bases. I'll have to test it out

[Dr Mittens]

Wings of Wind.

Line up Shang behind misaki, samurai, samurai, *insert beatstick here*

Be sure to angle them so that they get pushed towards the middle instead of diagonally towards a far corner

Downburst Shang, cheat as necessary, it's the first turn so not a big deal if you burn through half your hand.

0 action move Shang with Wings of Wind

Downburst Shang again, Now you have 4 units up 8" (32" of net movement on important models) and 4" on shang. If you didn't need to recast downburst, you now have 1 ap left for a walk to get about 40" of movement off just Misaki.

Of the 7 times I've tried it, only once did I get messed up and only pulled off 20" of movement due to tons of high defense flips

[Trample]

1 hour ago, Dr Mittens said:

Wings of Wind.

That upgrade doesn't seem like it does enough for 2. Not to mention the loss of misdirection, recalled training, or risk & reward. 

[Cadaver_Junkie]

21 minutes ago, Trample said:

That upgrade doesn't seem like it does enough for 2. Not to mention the loss of misdirection, recalled training, or risk & reward. 

I like it enough to give it a shot I think, depending on terrain. Two free pushes like that at the start of a game would be a great tactical advantage in some circumstances.

Doesn't require a suit like misdirection. Risk & reward is tricky to me, at least on paper - does it actually work well for you?

[Dr Mittens]

5 minutes ago, Trample said:

That upgrade doesn't seem like it does enough for 2. Not to mention the loss of misdirection, recalled training, or risk & reward. 

The 0 action is incredibly useful for repositioning your units and basically gives you psuedo nimble to whoever needs it (pull a gunner out of melee, push melee into charge range, push a scheme runner into position) and while it competes with stalking bisento for 0 action, if you take disguise or the storm she has little competition for her 0.

The 3" at the end of turn may not seem like much, but you can park her safely behind woods for LoS denial before freely tapping her in next round before a charge or away if the situation calls for it.

It's definitely not very good on cruise missile misaki, but this build is designed to deliver an army, not 1 assassin.

[Tendrepie]

1 hour ago, Cadaver_Junkie said:

I like it enough to give it a shot I think, depending on terrain. Two free pushes like that at the start of a game would be a great tactical advantage in some circumstances.

Doesn't require a suit like misdirection. Risk & reward is tricky to me, at least on paper - does it actually work well for you?

Last few game my wife choosed Misaki, She took Risk&Reward + storm + Recalled/Peaceful river or whatnot. Risk was quite good I think. She only use stone to draw more cards so she is always Hellbent... +flip on df and crows on melee are high reward; Misaki has good df. so it make her really difficult to hit without focusing or having other way to get + (hitting Misaki wp might be easier but she still has a 7...). 

The extra crow on melee is also quite nasty: better keep a few cards for that rocket that might trigger assassination on T1... or just cheat all the thunder and blast your precious.

Then again, Keep in mind I play Neverborn so my stuff is not that resilient. Wouldn't know how it fare against other faction crew. 

 

[Trample]

1 hour ago, Cadaver_Junkie said:

I like it enough to give it a shot I think, depending on terrain. Two free pushes like that at the start of a game would be a great tactical advantage in some circumstances.

Doesn't require a suit like misdirection. Risk & reward is tricky to me, at least on paper - does it actually work well for you?

I tend to use Storm, Misdirection, and Recalled Training. I've used R&R a few times, but misdirection is so much more powerful as a defense tool. When I've used R&R it's been nice to be able to stone for cards at the beginning of the round and risk the others. The healing doesn't do much, but you get your crow and + flips along with the cards to cheat with those flips. 

Having said that, I think it's great to try other things. I may try Wings of Wind myself just to see, although I can't imagine what I would give up. 

[Da Git]

Hope this isn't too much threadomancy, but I reckon if we take a lot of this thread (especially @Rathnard's post) it'd make a pretty good Misaki Tactica to sticky.

I've been playing her a bit recently & I'd actually like to give the Smoke & Shadows build a shout. It's a little bit of a one-trick pony, but it seems to work very well.

List is basically

Misaki + upgrades (I like the traditional Stalking Bisento, Misdirection & RT)

Yamaziko + S&S

Jorogumo

A Pusher (I prefer Graves, but Yu would work too)

+ extras to flavour... My go to recently has been Graves for Pusher, Shang, Chiaki (she just kicks so many goals every game!), Torakage (not worth 6ss, but actually not as horrible as I thought she would be...), & 10T Bro (although really looking at the Charm Warder, can't wait for them to come out!)

First turn Jorogumo buries, use up activations, Graves pushes Misaki, Misaki walks & charges in with a total threat range of 21" which I've found to be enough to kill a model (hand & model dependent), end of turn out pops the spider next to Misaki.  The beauty of this is that the Jorogumo is really good at protecting Misaki from that counter attack with it's 50mm base & 3" Ml range. Also between HtW, HtK, Eat your fill (even better with Charm Warder's Disguised!), it can take usually a few hits from anything not your average Langston/Nekima's and then hopefully heal back up to full.  Then Misaki can counter the counter, usually removing another model or so.  Plus you still have Graves, Yamaziko & whatever else closing in.