A Greed Centered List

[Rillan]

6 hours ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

I'm curious how she does against summoners, who often gorge on stones for suits.  Has anyone tried this?

Taking her vs summoners is pure suicide. Also there are lots of other 8 Ss Henchman models that are way better. Greed is only good in hunting low cost models on a tie fight she looses. 

[Adran]

On 21/03/2018 at 1:12 PM, Rillan said:

Mb but those who played at least some games should understand that Once per Turn is not good enough if it is only ranged ability she has with average Charge and engagement range. I played with Greed in our local Enforcer Brawl. We had limited enforcer choice and u know, she is not even good enough to go 1 v 1 against other 8 value models...

Greeds once per turn attack is a pretty strong attack, to make up for it begin once per turn. But you would expect to have some way to use her 2nd Ap, such as placement and interacting, which isn't the case in Enforcer brawl. So thats somewhere when she is asking to struggle because you are handicapping her to begin with. She is a model that provides slow drain on resources and so wants to  be against several models. Enforcer Brawl is a format where you don't use a lot of those resources normally because you only have 1 model to use them on. 

4 hours ago, Rillan said:

Taking her vs summoners is pure suicide. Also there are lots of other 8 Ss Henchman models that are way better. Greed is only good in hunting low cost models on a tie fight she looses. 

Have you tried, or this this just you thinking she is rubbish and therefore no use in any situation?

I would have said Summoners would turn her into a priority because they can't afford the SS and card tax that she applies to models around her. Ca 6 vs Wp that does 4 damage even on a tie is pretty hard for most models to stop. If she is sitting in 3" of a summoner and their summons un- activated with defensive stance she is very hard to shift and will do a decent amount of damage before she even activates unless they choose to leave the area. Most of the summoners burn through SS very fast, so can't afford to use their Cache protecting their models, and so everything except the master will take damage or force card discard if it ends near her. And Cards are also vital for summoners, so they can't afford to throw to many away. 

If she is your only way off attacking their hand and stones, then its probably not enough to do much more than just hinder, but if you have a few headshot style triggers or even card discard, then it starts becoming a serious consideration into what you actually have to do and where you can afford to spend your resources. 

She is certainly not the strongest 8 ss enforcer, but I think she fits with a certain style of crew. one on one she does fair badly against other comparable cost models, but thats becasue she isn't a one on one model.   If you don't try these things, but just rely on what everyone else says then  you never find out some interesting combos. And models like Oxfordian mages and Philip and the Nanny never see play because they are no use (As was group-thought for at least a year after their releases). 

[Rillan]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

Greeds once per turn attack is a pretty strong attack, to make up for it begin once per turn

It only looks strong. When u compare with other 8 SS models it becomes very weak. For example lets take Judge or Francisco both are same cost and way better in damage output and survivability. First they have pretty damn good damage line, second they have everything to kill a model per activation. Greed is no match to this. Her one shot does 4 damage but this is barely enough to kill 3-4 SS model per activation, yes she has Manipulative and Defence trigger but she doesn't look as main target at all. And if u keep Rams on her DF trigger then u loose damage on other side. IMHO but Greed would be Playable only is Wyrd lowers her Cost or gives her manipulative of 14 like Doppelganger has.

Look from other side. Who will focus as main target Greed if she barely can kill someone ? Then how she is going to survive if most bruiser models have WP 6-7. Making 5+ flip isn't a problem at all. Maybe (its just maybe) she has potential in playing against Ressers cause most they'r models have low WP but even there Judge or Francisco are way better.

 

10 minutes ago, Adran said:

Have you tried, or this this just you thinking she is rubbish and therefore no use in any situation?

I didn't tried it in Sportsmanlike games cause as i said it's suicide. In for fun games she doesn't looks good either. Its a pretty damn problem to kill a model which has more than 5 WD and fights back. We tested like 10 turn game and it didn't do well. On one vs one its a 60-40 in other models favor. On 1 vs 1+ its pure suicide. So for 8 SS  model that needs support so not to look rubbish she is pretty damn bad.

14 minutes ago, Adran said:

 If you don't try these things, but just rely on what everyone else says then  you never find out some interesting combos.

Its all depends on meta and people u play. Most of our community are wargamers with attitude and gamestyle like I will do my schemes and by the way kill your models. For us ending up with empty table for both sides or Wipe out Situation is pretty common while score is 5-5/8-6/10-5 e.t.c. We fight each other. Its not interesting to walk around and smoke. In those kinda games Green isn't good since for example if i put her on table Gremlins easy kill her, Arcanist Beast whipe her out, didnt played against Ressers and Neverborn.. We dont have 10T player, but nothing she can do against Outcast.

[Adran]

4 minutes ago, Rillan said:

It only looks strong. When u compare with other 8 SS models it becomes very weak. For example lets take Judge or Francisco both are same cost and way better in damage output and survivability. First they have pretty damn good damage line, second they have everything to kill a model per activation. Greed is no match to this. Her one shot does 4 damage but this is barely enough to kill 3-4 SS model per activation, yes she has Manipulative and Defence trigger but she doesn't look as main target at all. And if u keep Rams on her DF trigger then u loose damage on other side. IMHO but Greed would be Playable only is Wyrd lowers her Cost or gives her manipulative of 14 like Doppelganger has.

Look from other side. Who will focus as main target Greed if she barely can kill someone ? Then how she is going to survive if most bruiser models have WP 6-7. Making 5+ flip isn't a problem at all. Maybe (its just maybe) she has potential in playing against Ressers cause most they'r models have low WP but even there Judge or Francisco are way better.

 

I didn't tried it in Sportsmanlike games cause as i said it's suicide. In for fun games she doesn't looks good either. Its a pretty damn problem to kill a model which has more than 5 WD and fights back. We tested like 10 turn game and it didn't do well. On one vs one its a 60-40 in other models favor. On 1 vs 1+ its pure suicide. So for 8 SS  model that needs support so not to look rubbish she is pretty damn bad.

Its all depends on meta and people u play. Most of our community are wargamers with attitude and gamestyle like I will do my schemes and by the way kill your models. For us ending up with empty table for both sides or Wipe out Situation is pretty common while score is 5-5/8-6/10-5 e.t.c. We fight each other. Its not interesting to walk around and smoke. In those kinda games Green isn't good since for example if i put her on table Gremlins easy kill her, Arcanist Beast whipe her out, didnt played against Ressers and Neverborn.. We dont have 10T player, but nothing she can do against Outcast.

The attack itself is strong. I would say its a slightly better use of 1 AP than any of the attacks Judge or Frank have. It doesn't compare with 2 attacks from them though. Greed does not do the same level of damage because she can only do it once per turn. So if what matters to you is total damage output, then you are right, she looks poor. And if your games largely end in wiping each other out, then  she probably isn't the model for you.  Greeds strength is slow burn. From what you say, you and the people you play with don't rate slow burn. (I'd say that you're having to spend stones for suits or have the right positioning for Frank and Judge to consistently do more than 6 wounds without dedicating a lot of your hand to it. They can both easily out damage greed in most circumstances, but not against a model that's 14" away in cover for example). 

One advantage Greed has over Frank and Judge, for example , is her ability to attack either Wp or Df. Sure, the attacks that do it are very different, but a model with df 9, Wp 4 looks pretty hard to hurt with those two where as greed has options against both  Df 9 Wp 4, and Df 4 WP 9.  But thats not her strength. Her strength is area control, and if you guys don't rate that then she will never be of use for you. She may well do more damage over a turn than Judge, but it will be spread out over several different models which is not as good if you are looking for killing efficiency. 

 

My style is probably very different to yours, but facing Greed knowing I may well need to cheat a card just to make the attack means I am less likely to do so unless its a good attack. And since if I don't kill her, I will either take more damage or loose more cards I will either not bother or make sure the attack really hurts. So Frank Flurrying against a Defensive stances manipulative Greed is a gamble in him killing her first. If he has 0 stones going into it, then I would worry that if he fails he is probably dead. And has probably used 3-6 cards to succeed, in a mix of good and mid cards. Greed will probably have used 1-2 good cards so if she lives she will likely kill Frank, and the player will have more of a hand left. Frank missing 1 attack of the flurry is likely to see him fail so he will probably have to cheat to win, and is likely to be cheating first at least 2 of the 3 attacks. SO he probably needs to discard to flurry, cheat once to pass manipulative, and have 3 high cards to cheat to hit. And if he misses with one and one of Greeds df flips was a ram then he has to discard to Greeds song or expect to die to her attack. Given equal hands, I would expect Greed to live and kill Francisco, and use fewer cards on the attempt. 

Of course, Greed will almost never kill Fransisco if he doesn't attack her, and is he has stones or upgrades he will do even better in the scenario above. (but then you're not comparing 8 stones Vs 8 stones)