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Aaron

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Meh on the metal, like the sculpts but think I'll pass.

Big question for me... is there any chance the Backdraft encounter box will be available at the sale?

That will make a huge difference to my budget calculations, money is sadly tight.

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Ugg just noticed still no Guild releases. Other than the models that where available at gencon have any other new guild models come out from this book?

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29 minutes ago, dancater said:

Meh on the metal, like the sculpts but think I'll pass.

Big question for me... is there any chance the Backdraft encounter box will be available at the sale?

That will make a huge difference to my budget calculations, money is sadly tight.

Doubtful. Wyrd has stated their intention to not do pre-releases anymore except in limited capacity at Gencon, and regular releases only make their way to the webstore 1-2 months after they become available to brick 'n mortar stores.

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I must be one of the few that'll stand up for metal's. Since the early days Wyrd sculpts, in metal, were fantastic and mostly better in terms of detail on models than the plastics they are now doing. Now, with the improvement in technique etc, i'd say that these metals will be fantastic sculpts and far and away better to paint than anything else we've seen for a while. 

Interesting to see the points raised to about the plastic guys having a bit of a backlog. If making things in metals allows for better sculpts and a greater degree of control over manufacturing times, i'm all for metals again. 

Finally, it's better for the environment doing them in metals which could, if you ever wanted them to, be recycled whereas plastic? 

Basically, yay for metals. Back to the Future part I

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Love Bob Ross mini.  And the Vik in the rabbit suit. The other one though, honestly a bit disappointed by the return to exploitative female minis. I thought Wyrd were  past that?

Just getting some friends into Faux and TTB and they love it, but I’ve already had to point out that yes, some of the early artwork is a bit iffy, but that things have improved a lot in recent years.  Was I wrong?

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6 minutes ago, Bad Jim said:

Love Bob Ross mini.  And the Vik in the rabbit suit. The other one though, honestly a bit disappointed by the return to exploitative female minis. I thought Wyrd were  past that?

Just getting some friends into Faux and TTB and they love it, but I’ve already had to point out that yes, some of the early artwork is a bit iffy, but that things have improved a lot in recent years.  Was I wrong?

The Vickies have always been pretty pinup-ey.  I recall Vik of Blood got that vest because of objections to her prior clothing of straps.  1st edition Vik of Blood even more so.

I would say if you're looking for more conservatively dressed Viktorias, between the stock one in the coat and the Easter one in the bunny costume you've got your bases covered at least.

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You know, its funny how a lot of actual women like the Viktorias and the Ronin.

Can people just be done with the whole Nice Guy(TM) neo-Victorian morality policing already?  Most people can see the Lucius mask at this point.

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I think we're required at this point to speculate concerning how many metal pieces Bob Ross is in.  Especially since that easle could easily be three pieces:  One main piece and then two impossibly small and fiddly feet.  0.0

 

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57 minutes ago, Norken said:

You know, its funny how a lot of actual women like the Viktorias and the Ronin.

Can people just be done with the whole Nice Guy(TM) neo-Victorian morality policing already?  Most people can see the Lucius mask at this point.

Sure, but then again, what's the ratio of men to women in the hobby?

To me the problem doesn't have anything to do with morality policing. To me the problem is that it doesn't make sense. Undead streetwalkers, burlesque showgirls and demons of temptation? Makes sense they show off. Sword wielding mercenaries, blind sword wielding leaders of law enforcement and murderous demons with man-sized swords? Now we're starting to head into darker parts of the gray spectrum for me.

I won't make a claim to speak for all women (or any woman for that matter) but I think that if you tried to sell Malifaux to women outside of the hobby as a less sexist game than others and showed them the Viktorias, that you'd be faced with quite a few raised eye brows.

I will say though that there are quite a few other female models in the Wyrd range that stand out as good examples as less/non-sexist.

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Personally my girlfriend and my lady gaming friends actually love the Vik/Ronin look. Although it's hard for any woman to look like that, I'm also never going to look like alt bishop. I think it's just a matter of aesthetic preferences rather than being sexist. Malifaux has always been a little "sexy", not necessarily "sexist".

I'm actually afraid of the limitations that artist and sculptors face when they have to consider political correctness in their creation.

Let the artist/designer create, the audience will speak with their wallets. Look at how successful Kingdom Death: Monster has been, and the sexual imagery in that game is more intense than Malifaux's by orders of magnitude. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's a demonstrative case in which the creators threw PC out of the window and became millionaires within one hour of releasing their product.

Edited by Saduhem
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2 hours ago, Norken said:

You know, its funny how a lot of actual women like the Viktorias and the Ronin.

Can people just be done with the whole Nice Guy(TM) neo-Victorian morality policing already?  Most people can see the Lucius mask at this point.

I dont mind the Vics, think they are quite amusing (hey you look like me here take half the clothes im wearing XD). The Ronin though, I find very unpleasant and not in a oh your exploiting waman kinda way but just seem genuinely sleazy.

Other then that most Malifaux models are okay with the odd choice here and there (one of the steam fitters being completely covered in protective welding gear apart from the cleavage for example).

Still think that the Alt Viks should be the Viktors and dressed similar ways to the Viks XD.

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Definitely going to get those Viktorias.

Viktoria of Blood is a Neverborn Doppelganger. We've seen what the Doppelganger looks like. She's not just missing clothes, she's missing her skin as well. Neverborn don't really care about human sensibilities. Just look at Zoraida.

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19 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

Personally my girlfriend and my lady gaming friends actually love the Vik/Ronin look. Although it's hard for any woman to look like that, I'm also never going to look like alt bishop. I think it's just a matter of aesthetic preferences rather than being sexist. Malifaux has always been a little "sexy", not necessarily "sexist".

I'm actually afraid of the limitations that artist and sculptors face when they have to consider political correctness in their creation.

Let the artist/designer create, the audience will speak with their wallets. Look at how successful Kingdom Death: Monster has been, and the sexual imagery in that game is more intense than Malifaux's by orders of magnitude. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's a demonstrative case in which the creators threw PC out of the window and became millionaires within one hour of releasing their product.

My point wasn't that the Viktorias shouldn't have been made or that Malifaux is sexist. I love it, play it, and promote it. I wouldn't if I thought it was. I know women who don't mind the models and I know women who do.

I guess what caused me to post is that I feel that we are mature enough as a community to be able to hold the discussion. Not everyone has to agree with everyone, we're never going to reach there, but if I'm done with a discussion; I just don't participate in it. I don't tell others to stop discussing it. I just want people to be able to speak their minds without being stamped with the PC-stamp.

Finally, with zombie prostitutes, murderous (and murdered) children, I don't think Malifaux is "politically correct" by any stretch of the word. ;-) And I don't mind.

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11 hours ago, Nathan Caroland said:


Because I like getting my toes dipped back in the early days to play around.

Because I could.

Because I was curious again about metal and some other things I'm messing with.

And because even more bluntly, I've got my plastic people up to their eyeballs between finishing up TOS, continuing with Malifaux, knocking out the new Wyrdscape - and I don't need to add on top of it at the moment. 

It was a bit nostalgic to go through the process of cuts and having metal in hand again - and the damn slivers of little metal everywhere. :)

 

 

11 hours ago, Aaron said:

It's just pushed back a bit.

can we push back ToS instead then? I knew malifaux would take a back burner to ToS. Very Sad.

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1 hour ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

 

can we push back ToS instead then? I knew malifaux would take a back burner to ToS. Very Sad.

I don't think that Malifaux has been placed on the back burner. There's still a regular influx of models coming in, although the schedule is a little mixed up. It's not much different than pre-ToS releases anyway.

They could have not made any new Easter themed miniatures. Instead we get them at a compromise. I suspect that this is also an experiment to test quality and reception of potential future products as it might be more cost effective to use metal for models that are not going to be sold en-masse.

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2 hours ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

 

can we push back ToS instead then? I knew malifaux would take a back burner to ToS. Very Sad.

There's a difference between Malifaux being affected and some limited edition models being affected.

Also, The Other Side isn't HIPS like Malifaux, it's not cast in the same machines. What I gather Nathan meant was the people who do THAT type of plastic, are busy with TOS. The people that do HIPS, are busy with the Wyrdscape and new Malifaux releases.

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TOS has already also been delayed twice - once from December 2017 to this March, then again to April. It's just a ton of work overall and it's not a purposefully delayed schedule.

I imagine once they get the Kickstarter orders out the door that life will get a little easier. Hopefully we'll hear another update on delivery soon, even if it's to alert us to another delay.

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In the art I like the expression of the Vik with the full suit, it doesn't come across in the render though, so meh.

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10 hours ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

can we push back ToS instead then? I knew malifaux would take a back burner to ToS. Very Sad.

Jumping to conclusions will mostly make you wrong - such as now.

Things are delayed, not that it's anyone's business, but due to the fact that customs has their arms elbow deep in the boat and containers which it carried. Wish it was otherwise, but those folks have a job to do and nothing we say is going to rush them.

Nothing is getting back burner-ed in the least. We've got long plans for both Malifaux and TOS for some time to come. Can't have it all at once sadly.

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15 minutes ago, Nathan Caroland said:

Jumping to conclusions will mostly make you wrong - such as now.

Things are delayed, not that it's anyone's business, but due to the fact that customs has their arms elbow deep in the boat and containers which it carried. Wish it was otherwise, but those folks have a job to do and nothing we say is going to rush them.

Nothing is getting back burner-ed in the least. We've got long plans for both Malifaux and TOS for some time to come. Can't have it all at once sadly.

At least can u tell us what will happen to models died in lore (Nicodem and Judge) and are there going to be any changes with Faction Masters in near future since McMourning is not with Guild anymore, Tonia betrayed arcanists and e.t.c. ?

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27 minutes ago, Nathan Caroland said:

Things are delayed, not that it's anyone's business, but due to the fact that customs has their arms elbow deep in the boat and containers which it carried. Wish it was otherwise, but those folks have a job to do and nothing we say is going to rush them.

For a minute there, I thought you were talking about TOS and got excited that things had left the factory... then I realised the customs delay was probably in reference to the Undying box and delayed Malifaux minis. Oh well, back to being (somewhat) patient. :)

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9 hours ago, Saduhem said:

I suspect that this is also an experiment to test quality and reception of potential future products as it might be more cost effective to use metal for models that are not going to be sold en-masse.

That is what worries me. As much as I want the cool alt Viks, I don't want to be sending Wyrd a message that I'm ok with metal models for even more releases. Having got used to Wyrd hard plastics, I dread going back to the pain of cleaning, assembling and transporting metal minis...

Honestly, if the choice is between metal or paying a bit more (up to 50% more per mini) for hard plastic I'll choose hard plastic every time.

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*watches the materials posts with wide-eyed naïveté* I’m still new enough to minis to find the processes fascinating...feel free to ignore it if you don’t want to answer, but this means metals are cast state-side instead of imported? For the weight, if nothing else.

17 hours ago, Bad Jim said:

Love Bob Ross mini.  And the Vik in the rabbit suit. The other one though, honestly a bit disappointed by the return to exploitative female minis. I thought Wyrd were past that?

Just getting some friends into Faux and TTB and they love it, but I’ve already had to point out that yes, some of the early artwork is a bit iffy, but that things have improved a lot in recent years.  Was I wrong?

They’re also alts...and not the regular line. I like that change of direction*. Yes, slightly bummed that there’s now two legal Viktoria of Bloods both of whom (presumably**) are in skimpy clothing, but since I can’t tell the regular sculpts apart anyway, just substitute in the clothed regular one and tell me it’s Blood, I can’t correct you.

 

*the last two books have been rather good about it, book five has been so good as to be experimental in multi-packs where you could just trade away whatever pose didn’t suit your aesthetic

**it is only a guess that Ashes chose the bunny suit which doesn’t have two visible swords

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1 hour ago, gribble said:

That is what worries me. As much as I want the cool alt Viks, I don't want to be sending Wyrd a message that I'm ok with metal models for even more releases. Having got used to Wyrd hard plastics, I dread going back to the pain of cleaning, assembling and transporting metal minis...

Honestly, if the choice is between metal or paying a bit more (up to 50% more per mini) for hard plastic I'll choose hard plastic every time.

I hear ya. Metal minis are a pain, IMHO they're even worse than the resin ones, or that cheap PVC that Aionus was released in.

It looks like Wyrd has been experimenting for a bit, I guess trying to cut costs, but unfortunately the hard plastic that they use is so good, that anything else would be a massive step back and very disappointing. When you set your standards high, it's hard to go back without letting down your community...

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1 hour ago, Rillan said:

At least can u tell us what will happen to models died in lore (Nicodem and Judge) and are there going to be any changes with Faction Masters in near future since McMourning is not with Guild anymore, Tonia betrayed arcanists and e.t.c. ?

I could, but no, we'll leave that for another day. :)
 

18 hours ago, Bad Jim said:

Love Bob Ross mini.  And the Vik in the rabbit suit. The other one though, honestly a bit disappointed by the return to exploitative female minis. I thought Wyrd were  past that? 

Just getting some friends into Faux and TTB and they love it, but I’ve already had to point out that yes, some of the early artwork is a bit iffy, but that things have improved a lot in recent years.  Was I wrong?


Old conversation that folks go round and round about - and have already done so here and elsewhere. Not going to bother getting into it much to be honest. Malifaux isn't PC. I'm certainly not PC. I respect folks opinions and standards, but I don't necessarily agree either. Hell, you can barely get a room of people to agree about one thing, much less multiple things these days. :) That being said, we keep what I like to think as a fairly nice standard/baseline for the most part and as much as I would love for everyone to just pile on and purchase something Wyrd - at the end of the day if it's not for you or it offends your sensibilities, we'll completely understand if you don't. 

 

 

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