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Purzel

Untrained Skills

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I couldn't find a rule regarding the use of skills that a Fated does not possess. Apparently, it is  possible to use some of the Close Combat skills, since there is a damage spread for rank 0 listed. But are all skills usable, just by assuming the rank was zero, the AV being exactly the associated aspect value in this case?

Everyone can 'evade', but what about any crafting, 'history', let alone magical skills?

Not being able to tackle any challenge requiring the notice skill, for instance, if you don't have the skill, seems wrong. It also seems very wrong, however, if an incredibly charming character can play an instrument better than a moderately skilled less charming person.

So, is there a general rule that I've missed on how to handle this? Negative flips perhaps?

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28 minutes ago, Purzel said:

I couldn't find a rule regarding the use of skills that a Fated does not possess. Apparently, it is  possible to use some of the Close Combat skills, since there is a damage spread for rank 0 listed. But are all skills usable, just by assuming the rank was zero, the AV being exactly the associated aspect value in this case?

Characters do not need ranks in a skill to use that skill; they are simply treated as having a "0" in that skill when making a check.

 

29 minutes ago, Purzel said:

Everyone can 'evade', but what about any crafting, 'history', let alone magical skills?

Yup.

 

30 minutes ago, Purzel said:

Not being able to tackle any challenge requiring the notice skill, for instance, if you don't have the skill, seems wrong. It also seems very wrong, however, if an incredibly charming character can play an instrument better than a moderately skilled less charming person.

You need Skill Ranks to get Triggers, but raw natural talent can still sometimes eclipse hard work and training, even in the real world. The people who have both usually become quite famous in their field.

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My group has a house rule that you can't cheat fate if you have 0 ranks in a skill. Makes it a bit more interesting to spread out the skill points we've found.

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13 minutes ago, Jinx said:

My group has a house rule that you can't cheat fate if you have 0 ranks in a skill. Makes it a bit more interesting to spread out the skill points we've found.

That's how it was in first edition.

Cheating Fate is an integral part of the Malifaux universe, so locking it away behind a skill rank just didn't feel right to me. When I was researching how best to update TTB to second edition, I found that players would often put 1 rank into "must have" skills in order to unlock cheating with that skill, and that tracking which skills players could and could not cheat was a chore. Opening cheating up to every skill, regardless of ranks, was a nice little bit of streamlining that smoothed out gameplay and allowed characters to be more flavorful and broadly capable.

That being said, if it works in your game, roll with it.  ;)

 

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Am I right in thinking that crafting requires skill ranks though rather than Acting Value(stat + skill)?


Can you make weapons and things if you combined stat + skill ranks is greater than the required value? (I guess this would make some sense, but most items are 1-5 which suggests its rank related)
 

Can you make constructs equal to (int + artefacting) * construct_height?

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15 hours ago, diki said:

Am I right in thinking that crafting requires skill ranks though rather than Acting Value(stat + skill)?

Yes, crafting items uses Skill Rank, not Acting Value.

 

15 hours ago, diki said:

Can you make constructs equal to (int + artefacting) * construct_height?

When building a construct, the character gains Construct Points equal to her Artefacting Rank * the Construct's Height.

Intellect doesn't come into the picture.

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15 hours ago, diki said:

Am I right in thinking that crafting requires skill ranks though rather than Acting Value(stat + skill)?


Can you make weapons and things if you combined stat + skill ranks is greater than the required value? (I guess this would make some sense, but most items are 1-5 which suggests its rank related)
 

Can you make constructs equal to (int + artefacting) * construct_height?

This rank is required for blacksmiths and they'r ability to make items better. Its all described in rulebook.  

Crafting items isn't that interesting and requires lot of time. To craft knife u need to spend a day minimum, and max value will be Masters choice and how good knife u want to get. In game where is time limit and u need to follow/support/lead team or do any other role its a choice u need to think twice. Dont forget that to craft items u need to collect materials it would be crafted from, forge and other stuff.

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I don’t really like that the stupidest char possible with -5 int but 5 ranks in artefacting (av 0) could easily make really complex things. A genius with maximum possible human intellect 5 but no ranks in artefacting and av 5 couldn’t  make anything.

It’s also don’t like that there aren’t 0 difficulty items a non trained character could make to allow them to use the skills and therefore possibly have them as options to upgrade.

I’d prefer it if it used av with item crafting difficulties from like 0 to 10. And have on going challenge rules for construction.

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59 minutes ago, diki said:

I don’t really like that the stupidest char possible with -5 int but 5 ranks in artefacting (av 0) could easily make really complex things. A genius with maximum possible human intellect 5 but no ranks in artefacting and av 5 couldn’t  make anything.

It’s also don’t like that there aren’t 0 difficulty items a non trained character could make to allow them to use the skills and therefore possibly have them as options to upgrade.

I’d prefer it if it used av with item crafting difficulties from like 0 to 10. And have on going challenge rules for construction.

5 ranks in noted discipline is equal to being genius in it while u have Int - 5 and completely dumb in everything else. Autistic people in our real life are mb not the best but good example. They are genius in their discipline and awful in others. 

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1 hour ago, diki said:

I don’t really like that the stupidest char possible with -5 int but 5 ranks in artefacting (av 0) could easily make really complex things. A genius with maximum possible human intellect 5 but no ranks in artefacting and av 5 couldn’t  make anything.

May I present some situations where  this might make sense.

You are Professor Gideon Longfellow, world renowned genius (Intellect 5) who has published many papers on the topic of theoretical physics. You are an incredible artisan, culinary and even engineer, but you just CANNOT sew. No matter how hard you try, you just can’t keep two pieces of cloth together with thread. You understand the concept perfectly, but you just can’t actually do it.

Or, you’re Burt Malcolm, a grade school drop out that is practically brain dead when compared to Gideon Longfellow (Intellect -3). However, despite your idiocy, you are surprisingly competent with a needle and some thread (Stitching 5), you’ve woven some nice scarves for your self and a your little brother who is quite a lot smarter than you. And oh the pride you felt when you learned that even the highest society of Malifaux adore your designs. You know basically nothing about fashion, but you uncanny skill in the art of sewing puts you above even Gideon Longfellow in comparison.

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@Rillan I would imagine a character with Autism would be better reflected with difficulty with social skills. Other than the fact that lots of inteligence tests expect general knowledge I don't think lower inteligence is an accurate representation of the condition.

@Steamtastic Vagabond - Stitching is a tenacity skill - so it makes a lot of sense gideon would be rubbish at stitching :P

I dislike that the crafting skills don't match all other skills in the game were attribute is typically as significant as skill rank for determining outcome.

(-5 Speed +5 Martial Arts=0 TN martial arts acting value) == you never hit anyone with a decent defense in combat. Although weirdly they'd do good damage if they did!

I think a genius should be able to figure out how to make a sword or a molotov cocktail without training. Who invented these things in the first place?

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1 hour ago, diki said:

I think a genius should be able to figure out how to make a sword or a molotov cocktail without training. Who invented these things in the first place?

Most of inventions were made accidentally people found it worked were not genius at all. Ofcourse there were exceptions but for bigger part it's true. 

U can figure out whatever u want but without skill it's pointless,  everyone knows hot to draw but not everyone is good at it . OR as an example u can understand every single part of your Pc and how it works but it's not enough  to build it from 0. 

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I apparently never realized this change. Would have really helped my graverobber/necromancer who kept flipping 1's on his stitching checks. On the plus side, he did find his place as the worst Rezzer ever within the group. 

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