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Models to use for Symbols


KingCrow

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1 hour ago, Franchute said:

@SevenThirtySeven since you like Cassandra mostly because of southern hospitality, what is your opinion about Kandara? Human guise gives the :-fate without having to activate early, with regen on top. She costs one stone less. She has similar stats. She has some utilities in a Sandeep crew. She is less mobile though (still her mobility is not bad with lithe and 6 wk) and she has crappy attacks.

I like Kandara a lot, and use her a lot.  Human Guise is great.  I often use her to take Banasuva's upgrade on turn 1 so he's a mobile 8ss beater w no restrictions, then put human guise back on turn 2.  When i do this, I usually give banasuva the no slow/cant cheat upgrade since Kandara shouldn't need to cheat a card turn 1 if you deploy her correctly, and it saves an AP from your effigy to not need to remove slow from banasuva. You might not actually use him to charge turn 1, but the threat of it can make your opponent change his early moves.  

But for stuff like symbols, my preference for Cassandra all comes down to the 3rd AP.  Since markers are usually 10-11" apart, nimble allows her to grab a marker per turn without an extra flip, which is a great threat.  But I like Kandara is a lot of situations. Her attack isn't amazing, but switching to her dmg upgrade can be clutch in Ply.  She's also good at cleaning up low-wound annoying models which have H2K due to her triggers.  Probably take her in 30% of my Sandeep crews.  Plus she's just a gorgeous model.  

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9 hours ago, Hollingydale said:

That's correct, you do have to remove the burning. Luckily the steamfitter has 1 spare AP and every significant model in the game has an ability remove the burning, so you're good to go!

Are you sure the Steamfitter's Armor +1 even works with Carlos? His Dance of Flame ability says that he has the Armor condition equal to his burning condition, and by the rules conditions with the same name are combined and are considered to end when the most recently applied condition should end. Turn ends, burning ends, Armor ends. I really wish I could get an Armor +3 Carlos, so I hope you can change my mind on this.

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53 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Are you sure the Steamfitter's Armor +1 even works with Carlos? His Dance of Flame ability says that he has the Armor condition equal to his burning condition, and by the rules conditions with the same name are combined and are considered to end when the most recently applied condition should end. Turn ends, burning ends, Armor ends. I really wish I could get an Armor +3 Carlos, so I hope you can change my mind on this.

The way that I read “Dance of Flames” it looks like the Armor Condition is always equal to whatever the value of the Burning Condition on Carlos is (with a max of +2). It almost doesn’t look like it would follow the normal stacking rules. If Carlos doesn’t have the Burning Conditoln can he even have Armor +1 or does it get set to the valuemof his non-existant Burning Condition?

If it does stack normally, the Steamfitter will need to reapply the Armor buff every turn since the entire Armor condition would lose it’s “until the end of the game”  duration and be replaced with the “until the end of the turn” duration that all conditions without a specific expiration have.

 

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The way I see it, he loses his armor at the end of the turn.

He gets Burning +1 at the start of the turn. Dance of Flame triggers, he gets Armor +1.

The Steamfitter (or somebody) reduces Burning, he now has Burning +0. Dance of Flame triggers Armor to +0 (both are discarded?)

The Steamfitter then gives Carlos Armor +1 until end of game.

Carlos pushes/hits something, gets Burning +1. Dance of Flame triggers, gives him the Armor +1 Condition for Armor +2 until end of turn

End of turn: Burning ends, Armor ends.

Also, if he already has Armor +1, he can get a maximum of +1 through burning, as +2 is the maximum of his armor condition, from whatever source.

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52 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Armor is a stacking condition so I don't see why it wouldn't stack. It will always go awaywith his burning srmour though so you are using a lot of reources to keep it up.

The thing that has me questioning the way that Carlos’s ability stacks is that he never gains the condition, he just has it at the same value as he has the Burning condition. I’m probably just overthinking it.

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3 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Armor is a stacking condition so I don't see why it wouldn't stack. It will always go awaywith his burning srmour though so you are using a lot of reources to keep it up.

In the crow trigger for Weld Metal Plate, it specifies that if the target already has Armor +1 or higher, that you can't give the model armor.  Hence the discussion on Carlos.

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Gain and have seem like the same effect to me. Gain is used like have would be in the game. If you "gain" something from an upgrade and Hans plinks it of you lose it so "gain while X is true" isn't different from "have while X is true". You can never have two conditions or abilities with the same name unless they are denoted as stacking. Thestacking rules on p 52 don't use gain specificakly but says: "a model that would get a second instance of a Condiion simply ignores it" Hard to argue he doesn't get a second instamce of a stacking condition and merges them.

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2 hours ago, MuMantai said:

The way I see it, he loses his armor at the end of the turn.

He gets Burning +1 at the start of the turn. Dance of Flame triggers, he gets Armor +1.

The Steamfitter (or somebody) reduces Burning, he now has Burning +0. Dance of Flame triggers Armor to +0 (both are discarded?)

The Steamfitter then gives Carlos Armor +1 until end of game.

Carlos pushes/hits something, gets Burning +1. Dance of Flame triggers, gives him the Armor +1 Condition for Armor +2 until end of turn

End of turn: Burning ends, Armor ends.

Also, if he already has Armor +1, he can get a maximum of +1 through burning, as +2 is the maximum of his armor condition, from whatever source.

Becasue of the wording on Dance of flames, I think it doesn't matter what Armour you give him, he automatically resets it to the level of his burning. Its similar to protetcion of metal gives you df 6. Regardless of what your Df was before hand. So if you gave Carlos Armor+4, but he only had burnign +1, when you finished resolving the armour+4 it would be overwritten to armor+1

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3 hours ago, Adran said:

Becasue of the wording on Dance of flames, I think it doesn't matter what Armour you give him, he automatically resets it to the level of his burning. Its similar to protetcion of metal gives you df 6. Regardless of what your Df was before hand. So if you gave Carlos Armor+4, but he only had burnign +1, when you finished resolving the armour+4 it would be overwritten to armor+1

That's what I was trying to get across but I think you did a better job of explaining it. 

I'm not 100% convinced I'm right, so I'd probably play it like a normal stacking condition if that's how my opponent thought it should be played. 

I'm a lot more confident that Dance of Flames does cause the Steamfitter Armor buff to need to be reapplied throughout the game though. I don't see +1 Armor on Carlos being worth 2AP and a piece of scrap every turn. 

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