nurse nerf, why?

[Merchant]

I Havent played mcmourning yet, and looking at nurses, they are good but I dont feel like they needed to be 6ss. can anyone help point out what was so game breaking about them? I'm the only resser in my club, have mercy.

[Ludvig]

They can apply debilitating conditions, even to masters. The heal + paralyze is also super rude on your own models with 14 wounds.

[Amayasu]

I'm not sure why an increase in cost has to be associated with being game-breaking. They went up a little because they're very good. It's that simple.

 

[daniello_s]

Because they were taken so often in basically every Resser crew (and Zoraida's ones as well) that they were considered too good for their price. Hence cost increase. Similar happened to Burt and Francisco in Gremlins who showed up so often it has raised voices (rightfully IMO) that they are too cheap to what they offer.

[Adran]

Look at my game 5. I played badly, but 1 nurse neutered my master and a henchman for about 3 turns. Its not game breaking, but they are a potentailly powerful model. And that power is still there. They are a model I always look at to see if I want to put them in a list. Now the cost is 6 rather than 5, there are just a few more times they aren't worth it. There will be plenty of times they still are worth it. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

I'm still trying to figure out whether they are worth their points or not, but I am inclined to say „yes, they are”. In their pre-errata state they were an amalgamation of 4ss model stat-wise and 7ss model action-wise. I would like to see them changed into 7ss model with appropriate stats in M3E.

[PirateCaptain]

Pretty sure it's because they were showing up in far too many crews, I regularly just stuck them in crews because, even though sometimes they didn't do anything, occasionally they could cripple my opponent, and that's a bit too good for 5 ss. At 6 ss it's a bit harder to just plug them in all over the place when you've got a few unspent points

[TeddyBear]

Malifaux is game carefully balanced. If you're thinking to reduce ss cost of one piece, inevitably others will increase; also because not every miniatures are played in the same factions. Nurse are playable with Resser, Nb and also Outcast or even in Guild

[Ludvig]

I still have trouble seing McMourning without at least one nurse but now I might not throw in the second one every game.

[Gnomezilla]

...or the third... 

[Nukemouse]

Nurses are very vulnerable and have terrible range and movement. However those things can be played around thanks to belles, doxies, mcmourning etc, this allows them to become very dangerous. Maybe nurses on their own are not too strong for 5ss but when yan lo teleports an activated model into range or jack daw pushes the nurse up they become huge threats. Models don't exist in a vaccuum.

[Gloomy]

As much as any nerfs to my faction hurt me deep inside...deep, I agree with the stone increase. Even though they're slow and squishy they're such a good toolbox. I've saved my Master many times with a Nurse/Chiaki combo, and in Mcmourning they're great for stacking poison on your own models.

At 5 stones they were auto-include for me in nearly every Resser list. At 6 I'm probably still gonna take one but they'd only be auto-include in a Mcmourning list

[daniello_s]

Their Take Your Meds can easily shut down enemy model (even master) for a turn so for 5SS it as crazy not to take one in the crew. For 6SS it is still good model to hire (I would if i were playing Ressers or Jack Daw). 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Disagree. Not worth hiring at 6 outside a Kirai flesh construct summoning engine. There are better, faster, and more consistent models for 6. Nurses have a lot of downsides that I’m not willing to entertain at 6.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Disagree. Not worth hiring at 6 outside a Kirai flesh construct summoning engine. There are better, faster, and more consistent models for 6. Nurses have a lot of downsides that I’m not willing to entertain at 6.

How would you get poison on McMourning? Fleshie/autopsy and transfusion? 

Doesn't always come up but getting people to negatives for a McMourning list is hard to replicate with other models.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Little gassers and chihuahua.

[Dogmantra]

Also don't forget that in Gremlins and Neverborn, Zoraida can win one duel at Ca7 and then stop that model from participating in the rest of the game by just having the nurse paralyse the voodoo doll each turn. She used to pay 6 anyway and they were well worth it.

[Nukemouse]

Little Gassers and Chihuaha waste not an AP but an entire activation by ending their activation near mcmourning. Yes on the later turns its fine but on the first turn when that push is at its most vital is the time you really don't want to waste 2 ap that could be spent going up the board so they can perform their vital role of poisoning enemies.

[mo11usq]

Chihuahua attacking McM twice then oduring him for 4 poison on turn 1 is a solid play if you are on a budget and can't get a nurse in. The lil doggy getting left behind does noticably hinder turn 2 agression for me, but if i didn't have the nurse it was because I needed something pretty important. Another key draw back of this approach is that it sucks to have McM run out of juice in turn 3-4, by which time a savvy opponent has usually killed the chihuahua.

I don't see little gassers helping the turn 1 set up, its bad enough using up the 2ss totem's activation for 4 poison, but a 4ss model for 1 poison (or ~3 plus damage) is really unappealing. More potential for reapplying poison in the late game as you bundle around rancid transplant targets, which I'm guessing was Strumpet's intent, but it seems a little unreliable, I'll have to run it and see.

6ss nurse really hurts my favourite builds, but maybe it will force me to mix up my game. As the style I used in gg17 seems considerably weaker in gg18 that is probably not a bad thing.   

[JBugman]

Can someone clarify the purpose of giving  McM the Poison condition?  Passing on the Poison to someone else via Transfusion?  If that happens Expunge won't happen until next turn?

[daniello_s]

When he suffers damage from the Poison he can push certain distance (don't remember how far exactly). Excellent way to speed him up or let him out of sticky situation.

[Gnomezilla]

19 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

When he suffers damage from the Poison he can push certain distance (don't remember how far exactly). Excellent way to speed him up or let him out of sticky situation.

5” per poison tick + Sebastian nearby = 10” free McMourning push per turn. Dosing him with a nurse on turn 1 means I can neglect that the rest of the game yet still ricochet around the board. Some opponents have found humor in knocking the good doctor down to one wound and forcing me to forsake the push or die. 

[Freman]

Or putting you within 3" of an enemy Scorpius. Then you have to burn a stone or take the slow, which you won't.

[meows0r]

I like to doxy my Dr. forward before charging in with the chihuahua to get the poison on him, leaves the chihuahua in better positioning for t2.

I rarely use my nurse to load up the Dr. turn 1 as i find the nurse is often out of position for turn 2.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, meows0r said:

I like to doxy my Dr. forward before charging in with the chihuahua to get the poison on him, leaves the chihuahua in better positioning for t2.

I rarely use my nurse to load up the Dr. turn 1 as i find the nurse is often out of position for turn 2.

When guilding I have no Doxies but I guess Francisco can lend a hand.