Parker playable?

[Seadhna]

So, I've played a couple of games with Parker and... won them all with the same crew.

Now, I know that Tara, Levi, Viks or Hamelin might have done the same with more confidence, but. It's bloody Parker! The Clint Eastwood of Malifaux!

So here's the crew I've been playing:

Leader: Parker Barrows - Cache:(4)
   Stick Up 1ss 
   Black Market 1ss 
   Oath Keeper 1ss 
Doc Mitchell 3ss 
Mad Dog Brackett 9ss 
   Lucky Poncho 1ss 
   Oath Keeper 1ss 
Benny Wolcomb 8ss 
   The Bigger They Are 1ss 
Hodgepodge Emissary 10ss 
   Conflux of Stolen Goods 0ss 
Marlena Webster 8ss 
Desperate Mercenary 3ss 
Desperate Mercenary 3ss

A small comment on the list:

• First, Parker upgrades. Oath is there for an unhealthy turn after you've failed your engine and not attached Stick Up, it's basically an extra SS and an extra Walk. Black Market you won't be swapping out, Stick Up is a must.
• Doc & Mad Dog are your health insurance and alpha strike potential. Push, walk, blow it to hell, rapid fire to your heart's content, especially in clustered deployment like Corner (that's about 30" threat range)
• Benny is a flexible slot if you need a tank: he prevents, he heals, he obliterates henchmen with min 4, but in most cases you're better off taking Sue with Scramble or Return Fire. For Symbols you take Stalker with Scout and drink your opponent's tears (unless it's Lucius or TT, then they get to drink).
• HPE makes this mess of a crew work: you draw cards, you place an enemy marker turn 1, he's no slouch at bashing heads in, he's the ultimate scheme runner and another target for Parker's free (0) Interacts, as well as the Doctor's push. Just a great model that gets to draw 3 cards Turn 1. Memento on Mad Dog, Vitality on Sue or Marlena, and he can swap those around with the new (0).
• Marlena is another cornerstone: SS prevention or not, Parker used to die like a fly to a random RJ on damage, and without him the crew falls apart. Now he can stay alive and farm SS for as long as Marlena is around, and she's very sturdy.
• Mercs. Now we can fit 8 activations in the list, screen against Nekima and Viks and Take this to my son a random SS or two.

A friend was telling me "take the same models with a different master, and you'll get better results", but the prospect of chewing through Parker's 14+ wounds and SS prevention makes him live to burgle another day, and his ability to generate 2SS per turn is what really makes me wonder: is he playable in the new scheme pool?

Previously, he would run out of cards before the action even began, with his 7+ on trinkets and 8+ on pushes, but now you get to draw a lot with HPE.

As for his toolbox, I'm mostly using Stick Up for movement, Hidden Steel Plate for protection and denying condition-based Strats (Unflinching Stare is a hidden gem), Black Market's (0) Interact is golden for Ply. Coordinated and Shield look like garbage in most situations, but Crate can be amazing against marker-heavy opponents (cough, Titania) and Hail is a nice piece of board control.

A smart opponent wouldn't let you abuse Hands in the Air, but if you get to tag an enemy summoner with it, holly molly (pun intended).

 

So. Thoughts?

Who would wreck this crew's day?

Which strats would it be unplayable in?

[Gnomezilla]

And a very adorable Marlena proxy it is, too.

 

My hesitation about Parker comes from a joke we used to tell around the Guild forums...

’Lucius is perfectly capable of putting the nail in his own coffin’

’yeah, but only if he flips a 7+ of masks’

More seriously, does a negative flip to your Sh, or worse a Perdita with Finger on the Trigger, slow you down?

[Merchant]

Parker has a built in plus flip to SH

[Dima_v]

Quote

Parker has a built in plus flip to SH

On the six shooters. No + for debuffs, unfortunately

[Seadhna]

1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

And a very adorable Marlena proxy it is, too.

 

My hesitation about Parker comes from a joke we used to tell around the Guild forums...

’Lucius is perfectly capable of putting the nail in his own coffin’

’yeah, but only if he flips a 7+ of masks’

More seriously, does a negative flip to your Sh, or worse a Perdita with Finger on the Trigger, slow you down?

Thank you

 

On the Perdita: i wouldn't come near her until Frank is gone. But even with a 12" free shooting aura  from her we can wear the assault with our SS pool. If she got the Bulletproof upgrade, we're fresh out of luck and not scoring any Eliminate the Leadership points this game =)

 

On the 7+ issue: he does need a lot of mid-to-high cards for perfect combos, but as long as you're not getting a BJ on Five Finger Discount, it's all kinda working. He gets a lot of "free"AP from Stick Up, Oath Keeper and (0)'s, so I can usually spare an action or two trying to flip that 8+ for pushes. The only time you need to flip really high is if you decide to do a Companion Mad Dog Rapid Fire Alpha Strike combo, but by that time I usually have 7-8 cards in hand due to Conflux of Stolen Goods.

Then again, there's HPE to trade his AP for cards should the need arise, just tag two trinkets onto the Mercs and take back one of them -- that's 3 cards for two 7's which does not seem like a very bad exchange (or you can do 2 cards for one 7+).

[KID55]

Hmm, right now I thought about how can I play Parker, and see this thread. Little insulting that I did not think of it myself for MadDog alpha strike) But what about some melee beater instead shootaguy? Maybe Bishop with Scramble or Oath? Or Ama No Zako? Drop him in deployment on a first turn and turn on hazardous aura in a bunch of enemies?

[Seadhna]

13 hours ago, KID55 said:

Hmm, right now I thought about how can I play Parker, and see this thread. Little insulting that I did not think of it myself for MadDog alpha strike) But what about some melee beater instead shootaguy? Maybe Bishop with Scramble or Oath? Or Ama No Zako? Drop him in deployment on a first turn and turn on hazardous aura in a bunch of enemies?

neither Bishop nor Ama are beaters, sadly. Our beater options are Taelor, AnD, Johan, Talos and Deso Engine, all either much better played with Von Schill's new mechanial arm extravaganza or inferior to Mr. Brackett in terms of survivability, reach, AP efficiency and damage for the point cost.

[ElPuto]

16 hours ago, Seadhna said:

neither Bishop nor Ama are beaters, sadly. Our beater options are Taelor, AnD, Johan, Talos and Deso Engine, all either much better played with Von Schill's new mechanial arm extravaganza or inferior to Mr. Brackett in terms of survivability, reach, AP efficiency and damage for the point cost.

Bishop can beat well, surely he's not on the same level of other models. Brackett is not that survivable in my opinion, but maybe you're referring to constant SS usage, which Parker makes possible.

[Adran]

15 hours ago, Seadhna said:

neither Bishop nor Ama are beaters, sadly. Our beater options are Taelor, AnD, Johan, Talos and Deso Engine, all either much better played with Von Schill's new mechanial arm extravaganza or inferior to Mr. Brackett in terms of survivability, reach, AP efficiency and damage for the point cost.

a Ml 6 model with 3 ap, flurry and the ability to have min 3 damage isn't a beater? 

[James Dyson]

I’ve played a lot of Parker, and your list is pretty spot on with what I’ve been using.  I don’t have Marleena or Desperate Mercs yet, but I do like what I’m seeing with them and will be picking them up.

As far as your upgrade suite goes, I haven’t found a need for Oathkeeper.  Generally I like to keep two upgrades on Parker (ex black market and hidden steel plate) and cycle the third around.  Yes, turns happen where you BJ the Five Finger Discount, but I like having more tools available and taking that hit when it comes.  Preference, really.

To your questions:

1.  Is Parker viable in GG18?  I’d argue yes, based on my own experiences and by looking at his access to condition removal and mobility tools.

2.  What wrecks this crew?  I have the hardest time with fast melee crews that engage my shooty models early, or crews that drastically out activate me.  Mad Dog can absolutely kill a model a turn, but its much harder if he’s engaged at 1.1”. This is why Ive been digging Anna Lovelace- shuts down most Alpha strikes, similar damage output, plus a host of other goodies.

3.  What Strats doesn’t this play into?  The only strat in GG18 I’m hesitant on bringing Parker into is symbols of authority.  That’s because you need to get into your opponents face in order tear down their markers.  Midnight Stalker + Pretty Floral Bonnet -can- do it, but the rest of the crew doesn’t want to be in melee, so if they take down the Stalker you’re in for a hard time.

Cheers on trying Parker out in GG18!  Any chance we’ll see some of your game experiences written up in the Battle Report subforum?

[ElPuto]

9 minutes ago, Diceman87 said:

I’ve played a lot of Parker, and your list is pretty spot on with what I’ve been using.  I don’t have Marleena or Desperate Mercs yet, but I do like what I’m seeing with them and will be picking them up.

As far as your upgrade suite goes, I haven’t found a need for Oathkeeper.  Generally I like to keep two upgrades on Parker (ex black market and hidden steel plate) and cycle the third around.  Yes, turns happen where you BJ the Five Finger Discount, but I like having more tools available and taking that hit when it comes.  Preference, really.

To your questions:

1.  Is Parker viable in GG18?  I’d argue yes, based on my own experiences and by looking at his access to condition removal and mobility tools.

2.  What wrecks this crew?  I have the hardest time with fast melee crews that engage my shooty models early, or crews that drastically out activate me.  Mad Dog can absolutely kill a model a turn, but its much harder if he’s engaged at 1.1”. This is why Ive been digging Anna Lovelace- shuts down most Alpha strikes, similar damage output, plus a host of other goodies.

3.  What Strats doesn’t this play into?  The only strat in GG18 I’m hesitant on bringing Parker into is symbols of authority.  That’s because you need to get into your opponents face in order tear down their markers.  Midnight Stalker + Pretty Floral Bonnet -can- do it, but the rest of the crew doesn’t want to be in melee, so if they take down the Stalker you’re in for a hard time.

Cheers on trying Parker out in GG18!  Any chance we’ll see some of your game experiences written up in the Battle Report subforum?

Your words always warm my heart.

[Seadhna]

9 hours ago, Adran said:

a Ml 6 model with 3 ap, flurry and the ability to have min 3 damage isn't a beater? 

not when it's dragging its frail Wk 4 body upfield with no defensive tech against non-Ml attacks

not when there are Ml 7 models or Ml 6  models 

not when it has 1" melee range

not when enemies have armor, incorporeal or Df triggers

 

I guess my biggest gripe with Bishop is that getting him to actually do something takes a lot of work and planning, whereas models with comparable damage output either have bigger threat ranges or HtK or cost cheaper (or are just AnD). YMMV, of course, but for me Bishop will always be a weird stunbot that requires entire crews built around optimising his damage.

 

8 hours ago, Diceman87 said:

As far as your upgrade suite goes, I haven’t found a need for Oathkeeper.  Generally I like to keep two upgrades on Parker (ex black market and hidden steel plate) and cycle the third around.  Yes, turns happen where you BJ the Five Finger Discount, but I like having more tools available and taking that hit when it comes.  Preference, really.

3.  What Strats doesn’t this play into?  The only strat in GG18 I’m hesitant on bringing Parker into is symbols of authority.  That’s because you need to get into your opponents face in order tear down their markers.  Midnight Stalker + Pretty Floral Bonnet -can- do it, but the rest of the crew doesn’t want to be in melee, so if they take down the Stalker you’re in for a hard time.

Cheers on trying Parker out in GG18!  Any chance we’ll see some of your game experiences written up in the Battle Report subforum?

Oath is there for that turn when you couldn't attach Stick Up back for some reason (or used it end of activation to get out of dodge). It is indeed preference, but I found it useful for stabilizing the pgrade engine after an unhappy setback.

There's also argument for Traveller's Stone, but I find SS prevention and Marlena enough.

 

Symbols is the Tara strategy, period. I have other unusual tech in mind, but gotta try that out first. Parker can do it, but at this point it's easier and more reliable to just take Hamelin.

 

On the batrep question: I usually get carried away when playing, but I'll try to record some friendly games.

[KID55]

Bishop now better in Ressurs than Outcasts. Shemus with his -2 wp aura, and Crooligans with -1 wp aura. Than comes Bishop and say: "I will hit you in your 2/3 WP, lol". + Anna +Yin. Hello-goodbye)

[Cedar]

25 minutes ago, KID55 said:

Bishop now better in Ressurs than Outcasts. Shemus with his -2 wp aura, and Crooligans with -1 wp aura. Than comes Bishop and say: "I will hit you in your 2/3 WP, lol". + Anna +Yin. Hello-goodbye)

Plus he can use Kentauri as taxi to charge starting from the first turn. 

[Adran]

9 hours ago, Seadhna said:

not when it's dragging its frail Wk 4 body upfield with no defensive tech against non-Ml attacks

not when there are Ml 7 models or Ml 6  models 

not when it has 1" melee range

not when enemies have armor, incorporeal or Df triggers

 

I guess my biggest gripe with Bishop is that getting him to actually do something takes a lot of work and planning, whereas models with comparable damage output either have bigger threat ranges or HtK or cost cheaper (or are just AnD). YMMV, of course, but for me Bishop will always be a weird stunbot that requires entire crews built around optimising his damage.

you complain about wk 4, but he can still do 2 attacks 12" from him. His Df trigger is very good at keeping him safe when he is engaged, and he has the ability to be out of sight of the enemy model at the start of his activation and still get 3 attacks. He does have Df 6. he can engage someone from 13" away. 

He does fine against Armour or incorporeal, easily as well as the others you listed (you need to decide at the start of the turn but against Armour +1 I still pick , against armour+2 or higher or incorporeal take .   He also does really well against Df triggers (Targets Wp). 

He's not cheap, and doesn't engage huge amounts at once because of the short engagement (if he did it would be brutal), but I always find he pulls his weight because what ever you face, he is useful. 

[Fenriel]

Which Bishop's recent points reduction & scrambles's I found he's far more mobile than previously. Being a melee enforcer with limited defensive tech, you just have to pick and choose your battles. With obeys/lures/pushes to get him out of bad situations it's all good.

Back to parker - Good info. I don't like the fact the donkey seems mandatory now, but he seems far more competitive in wave 5 than he did previously.

 

 

[KID55]

8 hours ago, Cedar said:

Plus he can use Kentauri as taxi to charge starting from the first turn. 

Or belles/doxies.

[KingCrow]

I recently traded for a Parker crew but did not get Mad Dog with it due to it being lost and so the guy gave me a Nothing Beast in place of Mad Dog.  Is the Nothing Beast a decent model to bring along with Parker?  I figured he's a decent beater and has a Ca action which Parker's crew lacks.  Plus, with Parker being so card hungry (or so I've heard), it helps keep the NB's defense at a decent number.  Should I look at getting a Scion of the Void?

If the NB is a bad option, what else would be suggested to bring for a lack of Mad Dog?

[Saduhem]

Rusty Alice if you have her, or Anna Lovelace (Who does not randomize in melee when shooting so she can take advantage of "dead man walking"). 

[Seadhna]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:50 PM, Fenriel said:

Back to parker - Good info. I don't like the fact the donkey seems mandatory now, but he seems far more competitive in wave 5 than he did previously.

 

 

I never understood the donkey hate: he's a very strong model, way more useful than, say, Bishop.

 

On 2/6/2018 at 12:17 PM, Adran said:

you complain about wk 4, but he can still do 2 attacks 12" from him. His Df trigger is very good at keeping him safe when he is engaged, and he has the ability to be out of sight of the enemy model at the start of his activation and still get 3 attacks. He does have Df 6. he can engage someone from 13" away. 

He does fine against Armour or incorporeal, easily as well as the others you listed (you need to decide at the start of the turn but against Armour +1 I still pick , against armour+2 or higher or incorporeal take .   He also does really well against Df triggers (Targets Wp). 

He's not cheap, and doesn't engage huge amounts at once because of the short engagement (if he did it would be brutal), but I always find he pulls his weight because what ever you face, he is useful. 

he's always been way too fragile for his cost. I'd pick HPE in any crew for comparable threat ranges, damage output and superior mobility and survivability.

but, like I said, YMMV: we're all playing Malifaux differently, and that's the beauty of this game

[Cedar]

Yesterday, I've played Parker against Seamus. I took:

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Parker Barrows + 4 Pool
 - Highwayman (1)
 - Oath Keeper (1)
 - Stick Up (1)
Doc Mitchell (3)
Taelor (9)
 - Oath Keeper (1)
 - Scramble (1)
Hodgepodge Emissary (10)
 - Conflux of Stolen Goods (0)
Hans (7)
 - Advanced Sight (0)
Dead Outlaw (6)
Dead Outlaw (6)
Hodgepodge Effigy (4)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

Seamus had DYKWIAM?, red chapel killer, Sinister Reputation, his crew was: copycat, emissary with general conflux, dead doxy, two belles, kentauri and Sue with MLH. Somehow I've managed to won against him, with taelor killing sue turn one and Parker with emissary killed są us at start of turn 2. Unfortunately, the only thing hans did was forcing my opponent to cheat df flip with RJ, so my sniper wasn't able to hit emissary. I really like conflux of stolen goods, as it generates many cards during the game. Definietly I'll give wokou raiders another chance, however, I still think they are not particularly good model - adding  to their sabers would make them viable pick in my opinion.

[Seadhna]

Always leave Hans at home, he's not really a playable model in any scenario.

[beevison]

1 hour ago, Cedar said:

Yesterday, I've played Parker against Seamus. I took:

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Parker Barrows + 4 Pool
 - Highwayman (1)
 - Oath Keeper (1)
 - Stick Up (1)
Doc Mitchell (3)
Taelor (9)
 - Oath Keeper (1)
 - Scramble (1)
Hodgepodge Emissary (10)
 - Conflux of Stolen Goods (0)
Hans (7)
 - Advanced Sight (0)
Dead Outlaw (6)
Dead Outlaw (6)
Hodgepodge Effigy (4)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

Seamus had DYKWIAM?, red chapel killer, Sinister Reputation, his crew was: copycat, emissary with general conflux, dead doxy, two belles, kentauri and Sue with MLH. Somehow I've managed to won against him, with taelor killing sue turn one and Parker with emissary killed są us at start of turn 2. Unfortunately, the only thing hans did was forcing my opponent to cheat df flip with RJ, so my sniper wasn't able to hit emissary. I really like conflux of stolen goods, as it generates many cards during the game. Definietly I'll give wokou raiders another chance, however, I still think they are not particularly good model - adding  to their sabers would make them viable pick in my opinion.

Honestly, I prefer the tome being built in for drop it. Which gives them a 3" push, so once in the middle of a crew just by themselves they can get 6" push total on their activation. Without taking into account any "drop it's" from the rest of Parkers crew. I would far rather the tome be built in on her (0) to move a scheme marker. There're just so many things she can do. I don't see her as a beater, but as a disruption piece. Engaging models in annoying ways and being pushed about to be even more annoying. 

The only issue I really have her is until she gets into engagement she's very vulnerable. 

[Cedar]

By " adding  to their sabers would make them viable pick in my opinion." I meant they should have both  AND  in their attack action.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

5 hours ago, Cedar said:

są us

this autocorrection revealed your identity, Cedar - or maybe I should call you Bolek?... ;-)

the more I read about Parker the more I want to actually play him. he seems to be complex enough to provide some good excuse for me screwing games up ;-)

by the way, how did Taelor manage to kill Sue on turn one?