Master tiers or who is who.

[Myyrä]

2 minutes ago, trikk said:

 can dish out huge single target damage to kill masters etc.

You don't need huge single target damage to kill Sonnia. Ergo, Lady Justice is pointless.

[trikk]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

You don't need huge single target damage to kill Sonnia. Ergo, Lady Justice is pointless.

If she has Badge you do

[Myyrä]

Just now, trikk said:

If she has Badge you do

I don't see how huge damage is helpful if it is reduced to 1.

[trikk]

2 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I don't see how huge damage is helpful if it is reduced to 1.

Justice can kill you in the next 2  hits

[4thstringer]

I would have put pre wave 5 lj before sonnia.   I haven't decided whether I need to get up board in gg 2018 like I had to previously. 

[trikk]

Just now, 4thstringer said:

I would have put pre wave 5 lj before sonnia.   I haven't decided whether I need to get up board in gg 2018 like I had to previously. 

Swordfighter >>>> anything Sonnia got

[Zebo]

 

Gremlins

7 - none (0)

6 - Mah, Ophelia, Somer, Ulix, Zipp (5)

5 - Zoraida, Brewmaster, Wong (3)

4 - none (0)

 

The faction with the most masters with df above 5, also they have not df4 or 7. They are a little over the rest, but I doubt anybody considers them specially hard to kill.

 

TT

7 - Asami (1)

6 - Misaki, Mei Feng, Shenlong (3)

5 - Lynch, Brewmaster, McCabe, Yan Lo (4)

4 - none (0)

 

Another faction with very consistent df stats, no 4 df masters.

 

Neverborn

7 - Lilith, Pandora (2)

6 - Lucius (1)

5 - Collodi, Lynch, Titania, Zoraida, (4)

4 - Dreamer (1)

 

The only faction with more than one df 7 master (Pandora is in fact df 7), only have one master with df 6, so more than half of their choices are df 5 or less

 

Outcast

7 - none (0)

6 - Misaki, Parker, Schill (3)

5 - Hamelin, Leve, Ashes, Tara (4)

4 - Jack (1)

 

Three options with df 6 and the rest below that number.

 

Arcanist:

7 - none (0)

6 - Colette, Kaeris, Mei Feng (3)

5 - Ironsides, Marcus, Sandeep (3)

4 - Ramos, Rasputina (2)

 

Like Outcast, but worse changing one df 5 for one df 4

 

Resser

7 - none (0)

6 - Molly (1)

5 - McMourning, Yan Lo, Reva, Tara (4)

4 - Kirai, Nicodem, Seamus, (3)

 

Just 1 master above df 5.

 

Guild

7 - Perdita, (1)

6 - Lucius, Nellie, (2)

5 - McCabe, Lady J, McMourning, (3)

4 - Sonnia (1)

3 - Hoffman* (1)

 

Here, I hardly would consider Hoffman with df 3, since himself can put him on df 6 very easily. This would mean that Guild are, side by side with TT and Gremlins, the only factions with at least half of their masters with df over 5. Also are, with TT and NB, the only faction with some df 7 master. Not counting Santiago, of course.

 

That complaint about Guild defense is one of the funniest I’ve read.

 

Not counting that there’s many things that improve the survivability of one model out of its df. Leveticus and Hamelin are almost unkillable with their df 5.

[ElPuto]

32 minutes ago, Zebo said:

 

Gremlins

7 - none (0)

6 - Mah, Ophelia, Somer, Ulix, Zipp (5)

5 - Zoraida, Brewmaster, Wong (3)

4 - none (0)

 

The faction with the most masters with df above 5, also they have not df4 or 7. They are a little over the rest, but I doubt anybody considers them specially hard to kill.

 

TT

7 - Asami (1)

6 - Misaki, Mei Feng, Shenlong (3)

5 - Lynch, Brewmaster, McCabe, Yan Lo (4)

4 - none (0)

 

Another faction with very consistent df stats, no 4 df masters.

 

Neverborn

7 - Lilith, Pandora (2)

6 - Lucius (1)

5 - Collodi, Lynch, Titania, Zoraida, (4)

4 - Dreamer (1)

 

The only faction with more than one df 7 master (Pandora is in fact df 7), only have one master with df 6, so more than half of their choices are df 5 or less

 

Outcast

7 - none (0)

6 - Misaki, Parker, Schill (3)

5 - Hamelin, Leve, Ashes, Tara (4)

4 - Jack (1)

 

Three options with df 6 and the rest below that number.

 

Arcanist:

7 - none (0)

6 - Colette, Kaeris, Mei Feng (3)

5 - Ironsides, Marcus, Sandeep (3)

4 - Ramos, Rasputina (2)

 

Like Outcast, but worse changing one df 5 for one df 4

 

Resser

7 - none (0)

6 - Molly (1)

5 - McMourning, Yan Lo, Reva, Tara (4)

4 - Kirai, Nicodem, Seamus, (3)

 

Just 1 master above df 5.

 

Guild

7 - Perdita, (1)

6 - Lucius, Nellie, (2)

5 - McCabe, Lady J, McMourning, (3)

4 - Sonnia (1)

3 - Hoffman* (1)

 

Here, I hardly would consider Hoffman with df 3, since himself can put him on df 6 very easily. This would mean that Guild are, side by side with TT and Gremlins, the only factions with at least half of their masters with df over 5. Also are, with TT and NB, the only faction with some df 7 master. Not counting Santiago, of course.

 

That complaint about Guild defense is one of the funniest I’ve read.

 

Not counting that there’s many things that improve the survivability of one model out of its df. Leveticus and Hamelin are almost unkillable with their df 5.

Nice recap man! As you said, Guild has plenty of ways to field a lot of high Df models. So I don't get where "low Df Faction" is from. Especially when you pair it with Wd, Armor, HtK, HtW and so on.

[ElPuto]

1 hour ago, trikk said:

They are both Traitors and Saboteurs.

I think Justice higher than Sonnia because she needs less support (Justice doesn`t need Loco like Sonnia)  and can dish out huge single target damage to kill masters etc.

 

Biggest issue Hoffman  has is Lures/Pushes really mess him and his beaters up and its hard to have a lot of models with him.

Playing traitors and badass characters is a funny way to play Guild, so good enough.

LJ can, but she has to be in the thick of it, and she has no other aces in her sleeve.

Sonnia and Hoff can, otherwise, adapt to the gameplan: they can attack from a distance (probably staying safe) or mix in melee if needed; Hoff can be protected by other models while doing his stuff, 'cause he can just buff his crew, while Sonnia can hit you without LoS and can take care of spam better than anyone else in Guild.

So, once you say no to melee threat, what can LJ do? I think a lot less than the other two, that's why I'm rating them higher than LJ.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, ElPuto said:

So, once you say no to melee threat, what can LJ do? I think a lot less than the other two, that's why I'm rating them higher than LJ.

I'm confused, why would you say no to melee threat? There are very few scheme pools where it isn't good to table your opponent so having LJ f*ck sh*t up can get you a victory as long as your crew can get the schemes done. There are also far more models to shut down ranged attacks than melee ones.

[The Governor-General]

I'm pretty comfortable throwing Lady J with Ashwood Coffin, Swordfighter, and Implacable, at just about any crew.  She will mess you up, survive, not let you walk away, and if one of your models gets a little too threatening (looking at you, Howard), in to the box you go.

[Rillan]

So based on your current discussion am i right if i say :
Overall best are Lucius and Nellie
Then Goes LJ, Sonia, Hoffman, Perdita

and McCabe with  Macmourning  are situational traitors who u like but use not so often ?

12 hours ago, ElPuto said:

Nice recap man! As you said, Guild has plenty of ways to field a lot of high Df models. So I don't get where "low Df Faction" is from. Especially when you pair it with Wd, Armor, HtK, HtW and so on.

Like u liked it. Im just learning about Guild so everything might happen ;P

Bit out of topic but is it worth to buy Guild Emissary or its very situational model ?

 

[Ludvig]

I think the traitor tier was just a joke. I would not rate McCabe as weak, he is an excellent support master.

It could also have been a comment on that if you know you are playing McCabe or McMourning you might be better off declaring their other faction, I think that's true for both of them if you are hardcore about competing.

I'm a fan of the emissary, not sure if it has a place in a tournament winning list. Any list can use the bury both to move your own models and to remove enemy models. McCabe really likes the extra upgrade it offers.

[Myyrä]

14 hours ago, Zebo said:

Gremlins

7 - none (0)

6 - Mah, Ophelia, Somer, Ulix, Zipp (5)

5 - Zoraida, Brewmaster, Wong (3)

4 - none (0)

 

The faction with the most masters with df above 5, also they have not df4 or 7. They are a little over the rest, but I doubt anybody considers them specially hard to kill.

Half of them are damn near impossible to kill with all the squeeling. Incidentally, that's the half with high defenses.

[Ludvig]

Yeah, guild masters have very decent stats but saying gremlin masters are easily killed is also a joke. One attack and then they squeal behind something or out of reach. Didn't latch onto this because it seemed pretty tengential to the topic at hand.

[trikk]

3 hours ago, Rillan said:

So based on your current discussion am i right if i say :
Overall best are Lucius and Nellie
Then Goes LJ, Sonia, Hoffman, Perdita

and McCabe with  Macmourning  are situational traitors who u like but use not so often ?

Like u liked it. Im just learning about Guild so everything might happen ;P

Bit out of topic but is it worth to buy Guild Emissary or its very situational model ?

 

Lucius being God Tier is just a joke

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Yeah, guild masters have very decent stats but saying gremlin masters are easily killed is also a joke. One attack and then they squeal behind something or out of reach. Didn't latch onto this because it seemed pretty tengential to the topic at hand.

Not saying they are easy to kill, just that they are not considered specially tanky. 

[Myyrä]

35 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Not saying they are easy to kill, just that they are not considered specially tanky. 

Tankiness is different from being hard to kill. Tanky model doesn't mind others trying to hit it, and might actually try to actively get into situations where others would be tempted to do so. A model can be hard to kill for several different reasons as well. Many highly mobile ranged models are hard to kill, because you can't hit them when they keep avoiding you. Many Gremlin masters fall into that category.

Then there is an even broader category of highly survivable models. That also includes, for example, Governor's Proxy that's just so useless that no one bothers to kill it.

[4thstringer]

6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I think the traitor tier was just a joke. I would not rate McCabe as weak, he is an excellent support master.

It could also have been a comment on that if you know you are playing McCabe or McMourning you might be better off declaring their other faction, I think that's true for both of them if you are hardcore about competing.

 My issue with the traitor tier is I feel like they are better in their other faction.  And I generally don't like mccabes theme. 

[Ludvig]

16 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

 My issue with the traitor tier is I feel like they are better in their other faction.  And I generally don't like mccabes theme. 

Would you say he is worse than the other guild masters when played in guild though? 

[4thstringer]

4 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Would you say he is worse than the other guild masters when played in guild though? 

Mccabe no,  mcmourning yes.   But it's infuriating that mccabe might be our second best master,  and has a better version elsewhere.

[ElPuto]

8 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Mccabe no,  mcmourning yes.   But it's infuriating that mccabe might be our second best master,  and has a better version elsewhere.

Totally right.

[ElPuto]

18 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I'm confused, why would you say no to melee threat? There are very few scheme pools where it isn't good to table your opponent so having LJ f*ck sh*t up can get you a victory as long as your crew can get the schemes done. There are also far more models to shut down ranged attacks than melee ones.

I've expressed myself in a bad way. If your opponent says no to melee threat (with Disguised, reducing your attacks or stuff like that), LJ hasn't much to do. 

[Adran]

Just now, ElPuto said:

I've expressed myself in a bad way. If your opponent says no to melee threat (with Disguised, reducing your attacks or stuff like that), LJ hasn't much to do. 

Often I am unsure to charging with justice or spending extra AP to walk, so from that point of view, I'm less worried about disgused (Even more so with her new upgrade)

[Ludvig]

@ElPuto

Swordfighter gets around disguised pretty well and most models can't just shrug off her damage. Even if a couple of models i the list can it is pretty rare for an entire list to be able to ignore her. She is so accomplished in melee that she can bring some shooting