Nellie is not dead

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

I kinda want to  try a build for him with Lucius I made. 

Start a new topic on that! I have been considering both swamp Lucius and Doc Swampmourning.

[ElPuto]

1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

Start a new topic on that! I have been considering both swamp Lucius and Doc Swampmourning.

TO THE TOPIC ROOM!

[jchrisobrien]

Allow me to rephrase: McTavish is still good with Nellie.  Hired into the Guild paying the merch tax?  Not so much

I used him with Nellie once at the CaptainCon GT last weekend.  Outside of Nellie he did the most work in my crew: guarding Symbols, eating corpse markers, earning my Punish the Weak points.  He made it until turn 4 when Myranda turned into a Cerberus and pounced on him! 

Also, as mentioned before, he has an awesome alligator on his base.

[FinalForm]

Meme is alive
Nellie+ franc+ bishop with debt+ press+ austringer+ journalist
35ss
Ply for information, ruins, entourage
versus Misaki with bisento+ tengu+tt bro+sun quang+torikage+wokou raider

8-2
Outactivated opponent and killed Misaki and sun quang on a second turn alpha strike
Killed anything else exept for wokou rider on third turn

[trikk]

1 minute ago, FinalForm said:

Meme is alive
Nellie+ franc+ bishop with debt+ press+ austringer+ journalist
35ss
Ply for information, ruins, entourage
versus Misaki with bisento+ tengu+tt bro+sun quang+torikage+wokou raider

8-2
Outactivated opponent and killed Misaki and sun quang on a second turn alpha strike
Killed anything else exept for wokou rider on third turn

How did you feel tabling a fluff list :P?

[FinalForm]

1 minute ago, trikk said:

How did you feel tabling a fluff list :P?

It was a tournament and a game against one of our strongest players. I don't see this list THAT fluffy. TT list has very cosistent scheme and strategy effective models.  I've tabled fluff Von Schill with such list on my first tournament and it was sad. Now I'm picking this stuff only vs experienced players. 

[Ludvig]

On 2018-02-05 at 10:10 PM, jchrisobrien said:

Allow me to rephrase: McTavish is still good with Nellie.  Hired into the Guild paying the merch tax?  Not so much

He increased by less than a tenth of his cost. Whatever was worth 11 ss to bring probably is worth 12 ss to bring. Not sure he was worth it before, never figured out a list where I would want him. Not sure if you meant he was worth it before in non Nellie though, do you have any lists where you ran him at 11ss?

[ElPuto]

2 hours ago, FinalForm said:

Meme is alive
Nellie+ franc+ bishop with debt+ press+ austringer+ journalist
35ss
Ply for information, ruins, entourage
versus Misaki with bisento+ tengu+tt bro+sun quang+torikage+wokou raider

8-2
Outactivated opponent and killed Misaki and sun quang on a second turn alpha strike
Killed anything else exept for wokou rider on third turn

Why meme list?

 

[jchrisobrien]

I ran McTavish as a mercenary with Perdita.  He was 13 pts with Debt to the Guild, I probably had Numb to the World on him too for 14 stones.

I was going against Nicodem, so we have to factor that in.

He did a lot of work in a recent game against Marcus.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, ElPuto said:

Why meme list?

 

Meme refers to an idea that is replicated so bassically a netlist is a meme.

[FinalForm]

5 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Meme refers to an idea that is replicated so bassically a netlist is a meme.

Damage output of well positioned (thx to free 10 inch move) fast bishop with debt is big enough to be meme by itself.
First tested it against armored(via steamfitter) Sandeep with big pool of ss. No one expects double flurry for 30+ damage))

And for the sake of clarity: nobody played Bishop with Nellie in Russia before me. Everyone were taking Burt or Peacekeeper for similar purpose. 

[FinalForm]

7 hours ago, ElPuto said:

Why meme list?

 

Bishop with debt and fast is kinda overkill against any target. With proper support he can kill any model in the game(exept for Tony) in one activation with only 3 or 4 attacks and he can generate 6.
 

[Nellit]

6 hours ago, FinalForm said:

Damage output of well positioned (thx to free 10 inch move) fast bishop with debt is big enough to be meme by itself.
First tested it against armored(via steamfitter) Sandeep with big pool of ss. No one expects double flurry for 30+ damage))

And for the sake of clarity: nobody played Bishop with Nellie in Russia before me. Everyone were taking Burt or Peacekeeper for similar purpose. 

How exactly do you get this free 10 inch move?

[FinalForm]

2 hours ago, Nellit said:

How exactly do you get this free 10 inch move?

Via one of Nellies attacks

[Adran]

4 hours ago, Nellit said:

How exactly do you get this free 10 inch move?

Hot off the presses lets you place them in contact with a friendly scheme marker. I think you could move Bishop more, the challenge is getting the scheme marker far enough away on the first turn. 

10 hours ago, FinalForm said:

Damage output of well positioned (thx to free 10 inch move) fast bishop with debt is big enough to be meme by itself.
First tested it against armored(via steamfitter) Sandeep with big pool of ss. No one expects double flurry for 30+ damage))

And for the sake of clarity: nobody played Bishop with Nellie in Russia before me. Everyone were taking Burt or Peacekeeper for similar purpose. 

And double Flurry Bishop has always been a fun thing. Granted Debt makes it even more so, but I can pretty much garentee that when I first read Debt to the guild, I looked at Bishop as a good target for it as he has always had one of the highest number of attacks. 

[FinalForm]

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

Hot off the presses lets you place them in contact with a friendly scheme marker. I think you could move Bishop more, the challenge is getting the scheme marker far enough away on the first turn. 

And double Flurry Bishop has always been a fun thing. Granted Debt makes it even more so, but I can pretty much garentee that when I first read Debt to the guild, I looked at Bishop as a good target for it as he has always had one of the highest number of attacks. 

Well Propoganda -> guilt is so much easier than producing far markers for Hot off presses but if you can, it grants you extra mobility.

In our community most players prefered Burt as cheaper model with same damage track or peacekeeper as more tanky target.
I prefer bishop not because of just raw damage output, but for his insane 8def/8wp with inbuilt trigger against melee models also. This catches opponent in a situation when he is forced to dump tonns of attacks to kill big, well protected model or to ignore guy, who can kill 35ss list on his own.

[ElPuto]

12 hours ago, FinalForm said:

Well Propoganda -> guilt is so much easier than producing far markers for Hot off presses but if you can, it grants you extra mobility.

In our community most players prefered Burt as cheaper model with same damage track or peacekeeper as more tanky target.
I prefer bishop not because of just raw damage output, but for his insane 8def/8wp with inbuilt trigger against melee models also. This catches opponent in a situation when he is forced to dump tonns of attacks to kill big, well protected model or to ignore guy, who can kill 35ss list on his own.

How will you up the list to 50SS? Phiona maybe? Something specific for the Strategy?
Why the Austringer btw? Just because they're good, or am I missing some synergy here?

[FinalForm]

8 hours ago, ElPuto said:

How will you up the list to 50SS? Phiona maybe? Something specific for the Strategy?
Why the Austringer btw? Just because they're good, or am I missing some synergy here?

This is totally based on strat/schemes.
If you want to play nellie bomb on 50ss you can pick say Bishop, Burt or Executioner and franc. And if you are playing against armoured army or something with good protective abilities- you might want a queller for buff.
If you want to play tactical nellie- you don't need bishop or burt. Pick Franc, Phiona and/or Hannah. Rest is up to you.

In current meta state IMO this patterns work in any guild list:
4 guards+ Alisson: Great 20ss piece with cheap 5 activations, tanky tarpit with some good damage potential.
Domador(if you can make a decent convertion)+belle+pale rider: Nice tactical 22ss kit with lots of options (lures, raw damage, high mobility).
And they both work with Nellie pretty good.

And there are some nice single models(not single in case of doggos) that can help with schemes/strat. I prefer such models as: reporter (cheap schemerunner/antischemerunner), performer(toolkit), doggos(cheap fast schemerun), austringers(toolkit) and investigator(if you can make a decent convertion) .

[ElPuto]

1 hour ago, FinalForm said:

This is totally based on strat/schemes.
If you want to play nellie bomb on 50ss you can pick say Bishop, Burt or Executioner and franc. And if you are playing against armoured army or something with good protective abilities- you might want a queller for buff.
If you want to play tactical nellie- you don't need bishop or burt. Pick Franc, Phiona and/or Hannah. Rest is up to you.

In current meta state IMO this patterns work in any guild list:
4 guards+ Alisson: Great 20ss piece with cheap 5 activations, tanky tarpit with some good damage potential.
Domador(if you can make a decent convertion)+belle+pale rider: Nice tactical 22ss kit with lots of options (lures, raw damage, high mobility).
And they both work with Nellie pretty good.

And there are some nice single models(not single in case of doggos) that can help with schemes/strat. I prefer such models as: reporter (cheap schemerunner/antischemerunner), performer(toolkit), doggos(cheap fast schemerun), austringers(toolkit) and investigator(if you can make a decent convertion) .

Really helpful mate, thanks!

[Tris]

@FinalForm

I would like to ask again - what is Hannah doing in your list except giving you 1 extra card for 10ss?

 

Had a game with Nellie yesterday after switching to Lady J and Lucius for a change, and played 

Ours

Guarded Treasure

Covert Breakthrough

Show of Force

Search the Ruins

Recover Evidence

against Neverborn (Lilith).

 

I took:

Nellie with Misleading Headlines, Embedded, Delegation

Printing Press

Investigator

Mc Tavish with Numb & Debt

Strongarm Suit with Debt

Sue with Debt

Big Jake

 

I assumed that Big Jakes ability works for Ours and was pretty free to take whichever schemes I wanted, all were doable.

 

If I recall it correctly, I played against Lilith with Beckon, Living Blade and her new Heal

Nekima

Emissary

Effigy

2 Tots

Lilitu

Primordial

 

I tried Show of Force, seeing one model could take it unopposed (I think that was a mistake from my opponent tbh) and that`s the thing with a ranged McTavish - he can stand in the middle, score show, get`s cover from all non  attacks and can still participate in the fight due to his range, ignore cover and not randomizing.

Also a fast redeploy is possible if neccessary, push to markers, unimpeded helps a lot with that.

 

With Nellie, McTavish and the Investigator I had 3 models which could discard his scheme markers to interrupt Covert, Search and Guard.

 

Investigator pushed key models around and drew me 1 card each turn.

Sue kept his  to cast aura up when neccessary, also drew a card each turn and dealt damage where he could, basically "ignoring" cover as well.

Strongarm Suit is always nice against Neverborn as he ignores black blood and is less impeded by their terrain shenanigans due to his augmented jump - just keep him away from that rets eye enforcer^^

 

Long story short, I outactivated him turn 1 with cards (9 card hand ftw :p) and made the best out of a slight misplacement on his side, killing Nekima with Tavish, Sue and shots from the Strongarm.

Investigator pushes helped initiating, but McTavish got the shot through Liliths woods because he discarded one of my scheme markers to push 4" into the woods, finally getting LoS.

 

This proved to be a blow he couldn`t recover from, with Lilith dying turn 2 to the concentrated fire of Sue and McTavish, helped by my now 11 card hand (burned 2 Debts that turn).

 

Game was pretty much over now, but my opponent proved to be a great guy and took it with a smile on his face

 

I have to say, Nellie is much more fun if you don`t feel the need to play each and every game with her and, most importantly, she`s far from "dead"^^

I also hope that my short review helps with some insight on the use of McTavish in a Nellie crew?

[FinalForm]

1 hour ago, Tris said:

@FinalForm

I would like to ask again - what is Hannah doing in your list except giving you 1 extra card for 10ss?

Sry, missed the question before)
Hannah is very tough well-rounded model. She obviosly can score on Ours very well, she hits like a truck while focused and she can copy lots of good Ca actions ( Phiona, Alisson, reporter, executioner, dm, performer, investigator, domador and queller are extremely good targets for "Make a new entry").
If you are not playing nellie bomb- she is a good frontline beatstick/tarpit with free teleport from Phiona.

[Tris]

I still think I can get much better models for the 10stones, like nearly every single Guild Henchman, Peacekeeper for 1 point more, McTavish ;), etc. ...

Her copy is certainly not free but rather expensive if I remember correctly, needing not only her own TN but also the TN of whatever she then wants to cast, and I´m not convinced that the ability to copy these actions makes that big a difference if you compare it to taking other models which are already good and versatile on their own, or bring something new into the crew - but everyone has their own style I suppose  

[Adran]

2 minutes ago, Tris said:

I still think I can get much better models for the 10stones, like nearly every single Guild Henchman, Peacekeeper for 1 point more, McTavish ;), etc. ...

Her copy is certainly not free but rather expensive if I remember correctly, needing not only her own TN but also the TN of whatever she then wants to cast, and I´m not convinced that the ability to copy these actions makes that big a difference if you compare it to taking other models which are already good and versatile on their own, or bring something new into the crew - but everyone has their own style I suppose  

Her make a new entry is relatively close in power to an extra AP. Having her cast Pine box for example is strong in that its another model that you can bury, and it will only get free if it beats her in a wp wp duel later, and her Wp is higher than a death marshal. Yes, she needs to meet the TN to cast it, but not all Ca action that she will want to copy have a Tn as well. 

So Hannah is quite dependent on what you put in the crew for her to copy, but sometimes that is a good strength

 

[Tris]

21 minutes ago, Adran said:

Her make a new entry is relatively close in power to an extra AP. Having her cast Pine box for example is strong in that its another model that you can bury, and it will only get free if it beats her in a wp wp duel later, and her Wp is higher than a death marshal. Yes, she needs to meet the TN to cast it, but not all Ca action that she will want to copy have a Tn as well. 

So Hannah is quite dependent on what you put in the crew for her to copy, but sometimes that is a good strength

 

Sure, and Pine Box is maybe one of the best uses, but her free ap comes with two TNs most of the time, and she is no hard hitter for her cost, and not super tanky either.

If I wan`t a second teleport for example, why not take Franc and Phiona?

There`s not a lot of actions worth to copy, and I would say even less I need to have more than once in the crew.

 

Her suit stripping aura is quite good but lost some value since we have Quellers.

It´s a shame she can`t copy from a master as a second Nellie would be quite potent^^

 

But as I said, I don`t think she`s bad, just not that good that I would consider her over the alternatives, to each their own and in the end it`s all just different opinions 

[FinalForm]

2 hours ago, Tris said:

and she is no hard hitter for her cost, and not super tanky either.

9 hp with armour and ss prevent is fine 3 range also helps. She can tank some stuff while being healed by nellie. Of cause she is no way near joss or 9def Phiona, but she has pretty good defensive stats overal.
Again she is fine fighter while focused. 6 damage on target with 4 damage makes her a fine hardhitter for her cost)