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Pack Leader upgrade.


WWHSD

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With Hoarcat’s dropping to 4 points (and I guess to some extent Shikome dropping 7) it seems like Wp duels that aren’t caused by Marcus are probably going to be a bit more common. The more Wp duels your opponent is making, the more likely it is that Pack Leader will pay off. Beasts need LoS to the model that carries the upgrade so Ht3 is a big advantage.

Here’s all of the models that can take the upgade:

Marcus - Marcus is only Ht2 and generally has all of his upgrade spots spoken for.

Myranda - Another Ht2 model and she typically isn’t sticking around too long.

Spawn Mother - She’s Ht3 and doesn’t really have anything better to do with her upgrade slots.

Cojo - He’s Ht3 and the cheapest carrier available. He’s only got one slot available and I have trouble seeing myself put anything but Well Rehearsed in that slot.

Sabretooth Cerberus - Ht3 and can cause Wp checks from his Terrify (Living) ability.

Blessed of December - Ht3 and mobile.

Rogue Necomancy - Ht3 and can cause Wp checks with Terrify (All).

 

Are any of these models that you put into your crew because you want Pack Leader or do you just toss Pack Leader on whatever model you were already planning to hire that has a slot available?

 

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Is there a reason Cojo gets well rehearsed? If you have both him and a blessed for example you could have pack leader on Cojo and rehearsed on the blessed?

Wither way I don't think I'd include any of those beasts just to get the upgrade, I think it would already be in my crew because I was playing Marcus so the question is more: pack leader or imbued energies? The necromancy could be a little less aggressive than the others to have the buff in the list for longer and shoot stuff.

You also forgot the poor spawn mother! ;)

Cojo is arguably the only model you might take just to carry the upgrade if. The others are so expensive that you should be including them for their thing more than as an upgrade caddie.

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When I bring the Pack Leader upgrade, I always put it on the Rogue Necromancy.  It's impossible to wound and Terrifying are tough to get through and now you can give it armor with the Steamfitter to increase its survivability.  Plus it packs a huge punch with its Three-headed buff.  You just have to be careful because it becomes a huge target. 

It's a great model and I actually really want to try it with a bunch of little mini Rogue Necromancy's puppies (aka customized Hoarcat Prides) running around it.  

Also, remember that the Malifaux Raptor can turn friendlies into Beasts for the whole game so everyone can get in in the fun!

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26 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Is there a reason Cojo gets well rehearsed? If you have both him and a blessed for example you could have pack leader on Cojo and rehearsed on the blessed?

Wither way I don't think I'd include any of those beasts just to get the upgrade, I think it would already be in my crew because I was playing Marcus so the question is more: pack leader or imbued energies? The necromancy could be a little less aggressive than the others to have the buff in the list for longer and shoot stuff.

You also forgot the poor spawn mother! ;)

Cojo is arguably the only model you might take just to carry the upgrade if. The others are so expensive that you should be including them for their thing more than as an upgrade caddie.

I didn’t forget Spawn Mother. She’s listed right after Myranda. She also the only model I’ve ever actually taken Pack Leader on before. Maybe bringing her for Pack Leader and to work with Venomancy (since she’s the only Beast Henchman that’s likely to stay on the table very long) might be worthwhile now that she’s cheaper.

As for Cojo and Well Reheased; I think it just goes so well with him. It can get him some extra movement to make up for him being slow. If a friendly drops a scheme marker near him to allow him to push he can turn around and get a Df bonus from it kind of maximizing the benefit from the marker. Having a second Hard to Kill effect that stacks with Hard to Kill and isn’t ignored by models that ignore Hard to Kill lets him stick around to control a section of the table longer. He’s probably going to be central to the action so having he may get a chance to burn Well Rehearsed to keep another model on its feet.

I agree that Cojo seems like the only model that’s cheap enough to get added just for the Pack Leader effect.

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11 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I didn’t forget Spawn Mother. She’s listed right after Myranda. She also the only model I’ve ever actually taken Pack Leader on before. Maybe bringing her for Pack Leader and to work with Venomancy (since she’s the only Beast Henchman that’s likely to stay on the table very long) might be worthwhile now that she’s cheaper.

Wow, I must have been asleep already when posting this... She still seems pretty unimpressive. Not sure if veomancy is worth it. Kind of interesting with mommy, Myranda and the scorpius I guess. Venomancy has some pretty good upgrades to compete with though and spawn mother is still worse than a lot of others. I like the idea of making Joss or someone a beast for venomancy.

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As for Cojo and Well Reheased; I think it just goes so well with him. It can get him some extra movement to make up for him being slow. If a friendly drops a scheme marker near him to allow him to push he can turn around and get a Df bonus from it kind of maximizing the benefit from the marker. Having a second Hard to Kill effect that stacks with Hard to Kill and isn’t ignored by models that ignore Hard to Kill lets him stick around to control a section of the table longer. He’s probably going to be central to the action so having he may get a chance to burn Well Rehearsed to keep another model on its feet.

I agree that Cojo seems like the only model that’s cheap enough to get added just for the Pack Leader effect.

Thanks, that is some great synergy, I got it mixed up and thought he needed enemy markers for his defensive thing.

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So...I had meant to post anyway after a discussion at the local FLGS in my last game on this, however this is a good thread to jump on. 

The text on the card is "loses a WP duel".. . 

Does that just mean "loses a Terrifying test",  or would it also include "loses to an attack by an enemy model (lets guess this means "loses to one of Marcus' casts")  where the attack targets WP" - or even "fails in an attack of it's own which targeted the enemy WP stat"  

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Any duel where the model used wp so Marcus alone can give a lot of beasts extra atacks with this. This really feels auto take in an all beast list lead by Marcus.

Marcus is a beast btw so this is basically melee expert for him but you can tqke it on some other beast ao it dowan't take an upgrade slot.

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17 minutes ago, madaxeman said:

So...I had meant to post anyway after a discussion at the local FLGS in my last game on this, however this is a good thread to jump on. 

The text on the card is "loses a WP duel".. . 

Does that just mean "loses a Terrifying test",  or would it also include "loses to an attack by an enemy model (lets guess this means "loses to one of Marcus' casts")  where the attack targets WP" - or even "fails in an attack of it's own which targeted the enemy WP stat"  

A "terrifying test" is just an unopposed Wp duel with a TN set by the Terrifying value that caused the duel.

I'd have to look in the rules to verify but in the case of opposed duels each model  is perfroming a duel of its own stat. So a Ca attack against Wp would have the attacker making a Ca duel and the defender making a Wp duel. If the attacker was using an ability that had Wp as its stat then failing the attack or tactical action would be able to trigger the effect from Pack Leader (Pandora's Incite ability uses Wp instead of Ca ).  

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That is how it works. Most attacks are different kinds of duels for the two models involved. Pandora is one exception. Not sure how to leverage this in the best way apart from Marcus. The whole "every non-beast is at -2 for wp" makes any sort of wp duel you can put in the list pretty potent. It's also worth noting that you don't need to target the model that lost the duel with the free attack.

I think Bishop was mentioned earlier, he becomes extremely accurate. Manipulative, terrifying and similar abilites are also nice. Performers aren't too shabby at doing schemes and are both manipulative and attack wp at stat 6 (so probably the equivalent of 8 if Marcus went before her). Their Seduction is also nice. Rougarou are also pretty brutal since they force so many TN 13 wp duels on their Challenge of the Alpha.

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I was just going through to see which Beasts could cause Wp duels. The Rougarou has two different zero actions that both target Wp. Each of those zeros can also let him take a 1AP attack action against the target. Combine that with Pack Leader and the Rougarou is getting 2 free attacks agianst one model that fails against one of his zero actions.

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37 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I was just going through to see which Beasts could cause Wp duels. The Rougarou has two different zero actions that both target Wp. Each of those zeros can also let him take a 1AP attack action against the target. Combine that with Pack Leader and the Rougarou is getting 2 free attacks agianst one model that fails against one of his zero actions.

Yeah, I was browsing through my books and got all giddy. :D 

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OK, so an enemy model failing to "Ca" against your models WP would not count, as that's technically the enemy model "failing a Ca duel" (even though your model has just "won" a WP duel).. ... apart from Pandora because she'd possibly be using her own WP offensively, which is just one of those odd Malifaux things that breaks the normal rules :huh: 

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