blast vs. Blast marker Order

[PeregrineFalcon]

So I'm pretty sure I know the RAW on this but wanted to get others feedback.

Situation:

1. Peasant has 1 wounds remaining
2. Shenlong has 1 wound remaining
3. Sonnia blasts and moves the first Blast Marker her 2"
4. To reach Shenlong the 1st Blast Marker has to touch the Peasant (which will kill it); obtaining a Soulstone
5. The 2nd Blast Marker hits Shenlong but now he has a soulstone can he use it here?

I know this is a corner case because most of the time (Sonnia) can place a marker where it would hit Shenlong first. Now I know in the rulebook we have that attacker gets to choose the order.

Quote

Pg. 59 SRB: "In situations where the order that models suffer damage matters, the Attacker may determine the order in which the affected models resolve the blast effects."

A blast is defined as:

Quote

Pg. 58-59 SRB: "A blast is represented by a round 50mm base. A blast is placed by the Attacker so that it is touching the target’s base, but not overlapping it. If multiple blasts are generated (such as bb), each blast must be placed so that it is touching, but not overlapping, at least one other Blast Marker. Blasts may be placed into areas the Attacking model did not have LoS to."

So therefore in the scenario defined above the first 'blast' (represented by a 50mm Blast Marker) will have to hit the Peasant first before the second 'blast' can be placed touching Shenlong. Does that mean the Attacker can't choose the order (e.x. ideally attacker would want Shenlong take the damage first)?

So as it seems per RAW the Attack can choose the order when a Blast Marker his multiple models but not if two models are affected by different Blast Markers from the same attack what is the order?

[Artiee]

You have it in your first quote.   Yes it's all one blast effect.

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 minutes ago, Artiee said:

You have it in your first quote.   Yes it's all one blast effect.

Right but a blast is represented by a 50mm marker. So multiple markers are not part of the same 'blast effect'. I know this is nit-picky just trying to point to a clear answer for reference to provide to local players.

[TheSpinebuster]

You still have it in your first quote. Even in the case of double-blast, the damage they deal are resolved in the order of the attacker's choosing. No blast is specifically the 'first' blast and therefore do not require resolving first.

[Ludvig]

Several markers are still the same blast effect. You place all the markers, work out who gets hit, can more or less remove the markers now because you're done determining who got hit and then start going through damage on those models in the order the attacker chooses. Even if removing a model would give your target LoS to a new model under a marker you cannot do damage against that model because you didn't have LoS when working out who got hit. All damage is applied after you've decided all the models that got hit.

[solkan]

43 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Right but a blast is represented by a 50mm marker. So multiple markers are not part of the same 'blast effect'. I know this is nit-picky just trying to point to a clear answer for reference to provide to local players.

Specifically you're wrong.  If the effect says , that's one Blast effect with two markers.

If you read the paragraph after the one you quoted, it talks about models covered by one or more markers;

Quote

All models whose bases are touched or overlapped by one or more Blast Markers are affected, unless the model is more than 3" above or below the blast's target. Any models touched or overlapped by the blast are affected. In situations where the order that models suffer damage matters, the Attacker may determine the order in which the affected models resolve the blast effects. 

So you can complain about the first sentence being a little misleading, but that's it.

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, solkan said:

Specifically you're wrong.  If the effect says , that's one Blast effect with two markers.

If you read the paragraph after the one you quoted, it talks about models covered by one or more markers;

So you can complain about the first sentence being a little misleading, but that's it.

Perfect, this is what I was looking for. So the reasoning is simple, because the blasts are placed at the same time they are all multiple blast effects needing to be resolved at the same time and therefore the Attacker gets to choose.

Thanks guys, was being daft on this. The way we played it is as we just discussed but I was having a moment where I couldn't explain why (except that it just felt 'right').

[Ludvig]

They are multiple markers but I would further clarify that they are the same "blast effect". The attack doing a blast is the blast effect, the number of markers is just how big the blast effect is basically.

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

They are multiple markers but I would further clarify that they are the same "blast effect". The attack doing a blast is the blast effect, the number of markers is just how big the blast effect is basically.

Exactly but this is only the case because all Blast Markers are placed at the same time. If anyone wants we can close this thread as it's been answered. Thanks all.  

[Flib Jib]

Dare I rehash the old conversation about Sonia's blasts and Fear Not The Sword? seams very similar. 

[Ludvig]

9 hours ago, Thimblesage said:

Dare I rehash the old conversation about Sonia's blasts and Fear Not The Sword? seams very similar. 

Seems better to have a thread dedicated to it so people can find the conversation by searchibg for it.

[Flib Jib]

19 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Seems better to have a thread dedicated to it so people can find the conversation by searchibg for it.

Fully agree, I wish there were a slick way to link threads other than posting a link.