apes-ma Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I haven't played with the Viks in ages, but I am looking forward to some more gaming time with the new year, and giving the Viks some more table time. I was wondering how do the new upgrades tend to play out? Soaring Dragon AND Sisters in Spirit feels a bit clunky to me - but is Sisters in Fury extraneous now? Basically I am having trouble thinking around how Soaring Dragon actually works in practice, and how/when/where I unbury Blood Vik to make sure that she's both safe for an activation, and also ready to charge in, hopefully maintaining LoS to Ash Vik. And what about the other new upgrade? It seems like it's cute, but doesn't do a great deal outside of thematic or fun lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunWithKnives Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Nah soaring dragon drains too much cards. Restriction for chain activation ruins it completely 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Having Soaring Dragon on Blood could be difficult because you're giving up either Mark (yeah right) or Oathkeeper. However being able to kill then bury, makes her more resistant to being killed immediately afterwards. However don't try it against new Lady Justice, Aoinus, Void Wretches, or anyone else who can attack buried models. Scion of the Void is what you use for an unbury Blood attack. Ashes has the usual, Fury, Synchronized, maybe Spirit or Survivalist, Scion has Scramble and Oathkeeper. Scion goes fast, heading up the board, unburying Blood in position where she can threaten a significant chunk of the board but is not in immediate danger. Opponent moves. Ashes activates, uses Fury. Double walks so she's close enough to Blood to trigger Accomplice if there's something she can charge. However that's where you start to miss Oathkeeper. Blood can still double-walk and attack once with Melee Expert, but it's harder to get off a charge with only 2AP. However if there is an opposing model within 10 inches (which for a double-walk and 6" range for accomplice from Ashes) could be 26 inches up the board, she can usually carve it up, discard to bury, and then unbury with Scion again next turn. For this I'd take Student of Conflict and keep her back so that if someone whacks Scion, Student can unbury Blood towards the end of the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yeah... I'm only using Sisterly Bonds, and only when I'm fighting certain crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beevison Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 @Jesy Blue out of curiosity how are you using sisterly bonds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I don't see much use for either of the new upgrades, to be honest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, beevison said: @Jesy Blue out of curiosity how are you using sisterly bonds? I think I used it once on a Convict Gunslighter before killing something with Blood so it healed with Fates Intertwined... but it's not the reason I take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beevison Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Correct me if I'm wrong, but Convict Gunslinger is an enforcer and Sisterly bonds can only make minions sisters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Vik of Ashes (Sisters in Fury, Survivalist, Oathkeeper) VIk of Blood (Soaring Dragon, Mark of Shez'uul) Malifaux Child Scion of the Void (Oathkeeper) Midnight Stalker Marlena Webster 3 Void Wretches This is the list I've been tinkering with and its pretty damn brutal. Scion brings Vik of Blood out to avoid the turn 1 and can't chain activate restrictions. Void Wretches and Midnight stalker get any scheming you need done/wasting activations. Vik of Blood comes in and does some work. Then next turn Ashes will be there to help clean up. Best part is, Vik of Blood can bounce back into the air and come back down wherever either Ashes or Scion is so no need to worry about her getting stuck in a bad position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, beevison said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Convict Gunslinger is an enforcer and Sisterly bonds can only make minions sisters? Oh yeah, you're right... see, not even worth bothering with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXXXVIII Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I see 4 models being good for sisterly bonds. 1. Desperate merc. Because cheap and spammable. torpedoing them at the opponent doesnt hurt you. 2. Ronin. Because they can flury if in position 3. Rat-King. because overwhelm can generate an overwhelming amount of attacks. 4 Wokou raiders. most durable minions of outcast and they have the highest chance to hit their target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Sisterly bond doesn't seem very worth it. to get the most out of it you have to activate Vik of Ashes early, which is generally not when I want her to go unless there's an immediate threat to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frollo the Wordbearer Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Mrbedlam said: Vik of Ashes (Sisters in Fury, Survivalist, Oathkeeper) VIk of Blood (Soaring Dragon, Mark of Shez'uul) Malifaux Child Scion of the Void (Oathkeeper) Midnight Stalker Marlena Webster 3 Void Wretches This is the list I've been tinkering with and its pretty damn brutal. Scion brings Vik of Blood out to avoid the turn 1 and can't chain activate restrictions. Void Wretches and Midnight stalker get any scheming you need done/wasting activations. Vik of Blood comes in and does some work. Then next turn Ashes will be there to help clean up. Best part is, Vik of Blood can bounce back into the air and come back down wherever either Ashes or Scion is so no need to worry about her getting stuck in a bad position. Well.. I was tinkering about quite the same crew on paper these days.. But with 3 desperate mercs (now that are at 3ss) instead of the stalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Why? In 2018 useless activations aren't as important as they were in 2017. With a heavier focus on killing, you want models that are going to stick around a while. That isn't desperate mercs. Stalker is not only gonna last, he's going to easily score breakthrough, surround them etc all by himself. Something that Desperate Mercs are never gonna do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frollo the Wordbearer Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Well.. Basically because I like them, I suppose. Maybe not having played a single gg 2018 helps too xD As a semi-serious argument I could say that d. Mercs give the crew a solid 11 activations, which seem very solid for an alpha strike list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRocketPants Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Mrbedlam said: Vik of Ashes (Sisters in Fury, Survivalist, Oathkeeper) VIk of Blood (Soaring Dragon, Mark of Shez'uul) Malifaux Child Scion of the Void (Oathkeeper) Midnight Stalker Marlena Webster 3 Void Wretches This is the list I've been tinkering with and its pretty damn brutal. Scion brings Vik of Blood out to avoid the turn 1 and can't chain activate restrictions. Void Wretches and Midnight stalker get any scheming you need done/wasting activations. Vik of Blood comes in and does some work. Then next turn Ashes will be there to help clean up. Best part is, Vik of Blood can bounce back into the air and come back down wherever either Ashes or Scion is so no need to worry about her getting stuck in a bad position. I was wondering how your activation order looks turn 1. You say you get around the chain activation restriction, but you don't have any ways of chain activating blood? Also if you did, how do you get the fury buff on her? Do you put it on her and then bury her with a wretch? And only (maybe) use soaring dragon in later turns? What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, SirRocketPants said: I was wondering how your activation order looks turn 1. You say you get around the chain activation restriction, but you don't have any ways of chain activating blood? Also if you did, how do you get the fury buff on her? Do you put it on her and then bury her with a wretch? And only (maybe) use soaring dragon in later turns? What am I missing? I haven't normally needed a chain activation but you can always put the Accomplice upgrade on Ashes if you need it. Mostly what you do is use her as a end of the first turn threat. She goes in, kills something, next turn comes around and she's back around swinging with back up from Ashes and you can then bounce her back on the ship if she feels threatened and pop her out somewhere else on the board later. Soaring Dragon makes her ridiculously mobile and while the fury damage buff is good, she can reliably kill something without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperFly TNT Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 Sisterly Bonds - Best candidates imo are Wokou Raiders or Blood wretches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexLock Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Mrbedlam said: Why? In 2018 useless activations aren't as important as they were in 2017. With a heavier focus on killing, you want models that are going to stick around a while. That isn't desperate mercs. Stalker is not only gonna last, he's going to easily score breakthrough, surround them etc all by himself. Something that Desperate Mercs are never gonna do. Where did this "activation control doesn't matter in 2018" meme start? This is Malifaux, activation control matters. It matters for killing, it matters for scheming. Being able to activate your important models later than your opponent means they can't react to your plays and is one of the reasons Hamelin is so good. Is GG2018 going to be less focused on out-activating? Probably. But it's still super important and the Viks are going to love having activation control regardless of scheme pool. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 hours ago, LexLock said: Where did this "activation control doesn't matter in 2018" meme start? This is Malifaux, activation control matters. It matters for killing, it matters for scheming. Being able to activate your important models later than your opponent means they can't react to your plays and is one of the reasons Hamelin is so good. Is GG2018 going to be less focused on out-activating? Probably. But it's still super important and the Viks are going to love having activation control regardless of scheme pool. It probably comes from misquoting. People saying it is less important in 2018 is not the same as saying it doesn't matter. It is viewed as less important in general, because last year it was able to make huge swings on the always scheme, as well as fitting into several of the strategies very well. This year it is still going to be strong for crew specific plans (such as saving glass cannon attacks until they can't be reacted to) but much less useful in general stratergy specific plans and there is no always scheme for you to plan for in the same way. (sure its still useful to go last in Ours but numbers of models don't help you score it in the way they helped score interference so part of the advantage of having larger numbers (The most common activation control) is reduced). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Adran said: It probably comes from misquoting. People saying it is less important in 2018 is not the same as saying it doesn't matter. It is viewed as less important in general, because last year it was able to make huge swings on the always scheme, as well as fitting into several of the strategies very well. This year it is still going to be strong for crew specific plans (such as saving glass cannon attacks until they can't be reacted to) but much less useful in general stratergy specific plans and there is no always scheme for you to plan for in the same way. (sure its still useful to go last in Ours but numbers of models don't help you score it in the way they helped score interference so part of the advantage of having larger numbers (The most common activation control) is reduced). This. I think the average crew is gonna shake out to 8-9 activations in 2018 vs the 10-12 average most lists strove for in 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriel Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Not an expert on the viks, but there is quiet a bit of discussion that soaring isn't worth it. You can bury her & scion and than any minion can use scion's ability to unbury "henchman" while scion is buried. Makes for some crazy mobility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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