Errata hopes and dreams?

[Fluffaluffacus]

Resser Buffs
Dead Rider reduced to 10ss
Shikome reduced to 7ss
Student of Vicera reduced to 7ss
Hayreddin reduced to 6ss
Student of Sinew reduced to 6ss
Student of Steel reduced to 6ss
+Sinister Reputation (Seamus) gains 1" Close on it

Resser Nerf
Nurse increased to 6ss

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

3 hours ago, Da Git said:

Heyridden also dropped to 6.  This one I don't really like.  I would have much preferred he got a few extra wounds instead.  He's still too fragile for my liking.

He's 6ss model with 6 wounds, 7 Df and 6 Wp now. Stat-wise, that's pretty good.

[thewrathchilde]

overall I think we did pretty good. Nothing ground breaking but with the exception of the Nurse, Resurrectionists didn't get hurt anywhere and got some cheaper options and a melee attacks for Seamus. 

I am stoked about the melee attack for Seamus. It isn't anything overpowering but giving him a 2/3/5 MI option as opposed to backhand (1/1/3) increases his flexibility and makes it harder to tie him down with chaff. 

Although with most of the slight tweaks to points it may not change the was I build a list significantly the fact that it also makes summoning these easier as well is a good bonus too. 

[Daysleeper]

On 6.1.2018 at 3:07 PM, Da Git said:

...

I quite like the Dead Rider for 10ss too. He's rather one-dimensional, but he's a good comparison to Izamu, trading early durability for speed. 

Also, he can move enemy models away from important positions. I'm excited to finally test him with Nico.

[Paddywhack]

On 1/6/2018 at 9:54 AM, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

He's 6ss model with 6 wounds, 7 Df and 6 Wp now. Stat-wise, that's pretty good.

Yet somehow he dies to a stiff breeze.  I like the light approach in changing SS costs first and do like him better at 6SS. He might make the table more often now. Same with Shikome. I don't mind the nerf to Nurses as they could be quite nasty and 6SS is still a deal to be able to mess with your opponents models. One Nurse could often neutralize two enemy models a turn or possibly turn your average minion into a beater. 

[PirateCaptain]

I think the seamus change might be really good, but I need to play him, which I will tomorrow, but I think it lets him just face tank much better, being able to heal off punching people could be really good... not sure if it's worth it, but I'm very interested.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

1 hour ago, PirateCaptain said:

I think the seamus change might be really good, but I need to play him, which I will tomorrow, but I think it lets him just face tank much better, being able to heal off punching people could be really good... not sure if it's worth it, but I'm very interested.

I think the change is mainly (beside just buffing him) to justify taking A.k.a. Sebastian Baker without Do you know who I am?

[Fetid Strumpet]

I think it’s a small step in fixing the design flaws that were baked in from the beginning.

And I mean flaws in that as the game has developed things that were absolutely fine if the game had progressed in a different way have just become more and more problematic. I think it’s totally justified and no complaints but it does put a nail in the coffin of bag o tools. 

[Math Mathonwy]

12 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I think it’s a small step in fixing the design flaws that were baked in from the beginning.

And I mean flaws in that as the game has developed things that were absolutely fine if the game had progressed in a different way have just become more and more problematic. I think it’s totally justified and no complaints but it does put a nail in the coffin of bag o tools. 

They really should've dropped the cost of Bag o Tools by a single SS while they were at it.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Even if the bag was free it wouldn’t be taken because it’s limited. I’m not sure of the wider ramifications but looking at current master design on the middle to upper tier masters, I feel pretty comfortable in saying you could probably just remove Seamus’ backhand attack from his card completely and give him the attack from bag o tools instead and he would still fit within the current master parameters. 

I’m not saying they should do that, or that I’m advocating for it, or that there might not be something I’m missing, but I think you could do it and still not break the game or make Seamus even the best master in the faction. 

But at least the recent change gives him something and will definitely increase his fun level as you won’t basically be locked into taking the same move focus shoot turn sequence every turn. Charge, attack twice with live for pain, boo, and then shoot seems like a much more interesting turn to me.

[Fluffaluffacus]

7 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Even if the bag was free it wouldn’t be taken because it’s limited. I’m not sure of the wider ramifications but looking at current master design on the middle to upper tier masters, I feel pretty comfortable in saying you could probably just remove Seamus’ backhand attack from his card completely and give him the attack from bag o tools instead and he would still fit within the current master parameters. 

I’m not saying they should do that, or that I’m advocating for it, or that there might not be something I’m missing, but I think you could do it and still not break the game or make Seamus even the best master in the faction. 

But at least the recent change gives him something and will definitely increase his fun level as you won’t basically be locked into taking the same move focus shoot turn sequence every turn. Charge, attack twice with live for pain, boo, and then shoot seems like a much more interesting turn to me.

No. I like his backhand attack. Sometimes you have to show people who is boss. Also it won me a game once buy pushing the model off the stash marker....

[Fetid Strumpet]

Ummm how did pushing Seamus off the claim marker win you a game? You know it pushes Seamus and not the target, right?

 

[Freman]

Why does Harreddin have a trigger to not get the blasts from his shotgun, but with no improvement in damage?

Under what circumstances would you choose not to blast things?

[Tris]

9 minutes ago, Freman said:

Why does Harreddin have a trigger to not get the blasts from his shotgun, but with no improvement in damage?

Under what circumstances would you choose not to blast things?

Only trigger he has on his gun is slug, which let`s you perform an additional damage flip instead of placing the blast, but prevents further shooting with the shotgun this turn - so, I don`t know what you mean?

[Freman]

Thank you, I was misreading the card. It's a second damage flip, basically giving the opposing model both barrels to the chest.

[Fluffaluffacus]

8 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Ummm how did pushing Seamus off the claim marker win you a game? You know it pushes Seamus and not the target, right?

 

Worded that weirdly. I pushed Seamus away, and then let me shoot the target.

[Math Mathonwy]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:55 AM, Fluffaluffacus said:

No. I like his backhand attack. Sometimes you have to show people who is boss. Also it won me a game once buy pushing the model off the stash marker....

@zFiendonce slapped Dreamer to death on turn one  

[Pikciwok]

16 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

@zFiendonce slapped Dreamer to death on turn one  

That's child abuse!

[Dragoon130]

On 1/10/2018 at 4:44 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

@zFiendonce slapped Dreamer to death on turn one  

I double slapped Collette into submission the other day but I agree with Fetid Strumpet here. The bag of tools is iconic for Seamus and maybe its my 1E nostalgia but I do think it should be on his card.

[hydranixx]

I've been overall very happy with the changes. Shikome should probably have stayed 8ss but I'm not exactly complaining  

I've found a spot for Hayreddin in many lists now. Even though he still suffers the same amount of lack of synergy and in some cases even anti-synergy as he always has, at 6ss he's a much more reasonable pick for a flanker or dedicated scheme hunter. His mobility and damage make him more than a match for any Scheme Runner (or in fact for most model of comparative points cost) and that Min 4 shotgun (if you don't need the blasts) is painful for even the toughest of models out there.

The change from 7ss to 6ss was massive for this guy.

Also: stand near Mortimer (who's also looking much nicer at 8ss) Turn 1 when he sheds his spleen for the free point of Vitality and then fly off as a solo operative for the rest of the game.

[Paddywhack]

I'm not too worried about the students summoning a bit easier. Honestly it's only 1 card lower. If you want a student for a specific reason, you probably used a higher card sometimes to summon one. I've also never seen a Punk Zombie hired, so I doubt there will be any change there - they are always, in my experience, summoned anyway. Often they will still be the best choice for summoning due to Hard to Kill.

Shikome are nice 1SS cheaper. They didn't necessarily need it, but now they are a more attractive option and will see more play. 

Nurses are still good at 6SS and I think you'll still see them a lot. Their ability to shut down models is great. 

Hayreddin will be interesting and see more play. I still have trouble keeping him alive, but at 6SS I'm willing to give him a try again as a flanker/scheme runner hunter.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'll disagree with that. Shifting 1 number for summoning is huge. If you disagree do you argue that an attack stat of 5 is pretty much the same as a 6? Reducing it by 1 number increases the amount of cards in a deck that can summon them by 4. Additionally there isn't parity in number reduction. A reduction from 11 to 10 is more impactful and meaningful than a reduction from 10 to 9 because you are crossing the boundary between cards that can be cheated for severe dmg to those that can be cheated for only moderate.

I don't rate Nurses at 6 because they are too slow and fragile. Nurses at 6 when range doesn't matter (IE Zoraida) was fine. Nurses at 6 when you actually still need to get them in position, well I don't think you'll see them anymore when for 6 you can get models that just kill the opposing model with no downside. I think the only time you'll see them anymore is in applications where they never need to move. I loved Nurses for Seamus lists, but I'm not hiring them anymore since they aren't worth 6SS for all the downsides they have. For example Heyreddin at 6 is vastly better than a nurse will ever be.

[WWHSD]

13 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

 

I don't rate Nurses at 6 because they are too slow and fragile. Nurses at 6 when range doesn't matter (IE Zoraida) was fine. Nurses at 6 when you actually still need to get them in position, well I don't think you'll see them anymore when for 6 you can get models that just kill the opposing model with no downside. I think the only time you'll see them anymore is in applications where they never need to move. I loved Nurses for Seamus lists, but I'm not hiring them anymore since they aren't worth 6SS for all the downsides they have. For example Heyreddin at 6 is vastly better than a nurse will ever be.

I don't know that I've ever seen a 6 point model swing a game as hard as the Nurse can though with her Paralyze. With the way that Ply For Information works out,  Paralyzing a model makes it easy to get the the Gathered Intel condition on a few of your models.  

[Paddywhack]

1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

I don't know that I've ever seen a 6 point model swing a game as hard as the Nurse can though with her Paralyze. With the way that Ply For Information works out,  Paralyzing a model makes it easy to get the the Gathered Intel condition on a few of your models.  

Yeah, what 6SS model are you taking that just kills things, big things, with no problem? A 6SS nurse can potentially shut down a much larger SS cost model(s) and completely disrupt an opponent's turn. They are slow, but I've never really had trouble getting them where they are needed. Even as a deterrent they can be huge. And Hayreddin is more attractive at 6SS, but he tends to die to a stiff breeze for me. That Df7 is nice, but not enough to keep him alive long, at least for me. I am going to give him another try now though, so mission accomplished I guess. 

Yes summoning is easier, but you don't always have just the right card to get just what you want. Sometimes you might use a higher card to summon something because you need a specific model. It will make it easier to summon Shikome and students, but at least in my area I almost never saw those models. Most of the time if you can summon a PZ, or need a PZ, you tend to summon a PZ even if you have to use that 12 or 13. Now you do have the option for a Shikome instead, while saving a higher card, which is interesting, but I doubt they will topple PZ as the go to summons for most cases. 

Summoning is still strong (too strong?) and being able to summon a few models a little easier isn't going to break the game (at least with the models in this errata). It might mean we see other models slightly more often, especially hired, but it's not game breaking. It does change up your hand and tactics, I agree. We'll see over time if it was too much. It might be. I'm actually inclined to try the Student of Steel now as a hire and I never looked hard at them before. 

In the end I really feel Wyrd is gearing up for M3E with these changes. When they do I think summoning as a whole needs to be re-worked. I don't know how exactly, but I do think it needs a good long look. 

[tomhorstmann]

2 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I don't know that I've ever seen a 6 point model swing a game as hard as the Nurse can though with her Paralyze

When I first saw the errata, I was thinking the same. I think the huge blowout turns with Nurses really stick in one's memory. At 6ss, I'm starting to remember all the games where she just sat sat there feeding Philip and the Nanny because she either had no safe targets or I needed my cards for something else. My gut feeling is she is no longer worth it as a miscellaneous interactive model with the chance to do something amazing. I'd rather take something cheaper that I know will be useful every turn. If I have a proactive intent with her, though, like poisoning my own models or, as you mentioned, paralyzing a low WP model for Ply, +1 soulsone won't break the bank.