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Titania - Black Joker & "Into Thorns" trigger


Philosfr

Question

In my last game, Titania attacked a target with Bloody Command, declared the Into Thorns trigger and discarded 2 scheme markers (before flipping damage, discard up to 2 friendly scheme markers within 2" and LoS of the target to deal +1 damage for each Marker discarded), but then flipped the Black Joker. Does the total attack deal 0 or 2 damage?

Black Jokers "always deal no damage". Does that mean they can't deal damage regardless? Or does it count as 0?

I would assume the attack did 0 damage total, except that I've successfully attacked people when flipping the Black Joker. On an attack flip, it just counts as 0, but I can still add my Ml to it, and hit low defense targets. So does this work the same? The black joker does 0 damage, but because the trigger isn't "after damaging", it would do +2 damage because the scheme markers are already discarded?

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49 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Yeah, effects that add +x damage only wprk if your attack actually did damage.

Can't you have the +X damage while doing no damage with damage prevention? Like you would take 2+1 damage with critical strike, you stone for prevention, if you flip 2 you still take 1 damage but you need to flip 3 to take no damage.

Regarding titania i wonder how royal indignation interact with critical strike. If a minion with critical strike hits you for 2(+1) do you take 0 or 1 ? 

I have real troubles to understand well the 'When damaging' effects with damage reduction/prevention

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4 minutes ago, Aegnor said:

Can't you have the +X damage while doing no damage with damage prevention? Like you would take 2+1 damage with critical strike, you stone for prevention, if you flip 2 you still take 1 damage but you need to flip 3 to take no damage.

Regarding titania i wonder how royal indignation interact with critical strike. If a minion with critical strike hits you for 2(+1) do you take 0 or 1 ? 

I have real troubles to understand well the 'When damaging' effects with damage reduction/prevention

You determine how much damage you do before the defender stones so as critical strike is applied WHEN damaging you invclude it. After that you stone from the damage after calculating crit strike and armour etc so it can't affect it. If you black joker however you can't add the extra damage from any source, crit or royal indignation alike. When they happen at the same time the math rules says you add first so crit strike vs royal indignation would first add crit strike and then reduce from the total and it's too late to make it cause 0.

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On 2017/12/7 at 12:17 PM, Aegnor said:

Can't you have the +X damage while doing no damage with damage prevention? Like you would take 2+1 damage with critical strike, you stone for prevention, if you flip 2 you still take 1 damage but you need to flip 3 to take no damage.

Damage prevention from soul stones is done AFTER you have determined how much damage the model is going to suffer but before you apply that damage.

The effects of the black joker being no damage with no modification by triggers is explicitly stated in the rule book in the section "Jokers and the Damage Flip".  That's why there's no "0+1" damage for the black joker.

Quote

Regarding titania i wonder how royal indignation interact with critical strike. If a minion with critical strike hits you for 2(+1) do you take 0 or 1 ? 

I have real troubles to understand well the 'When damaging' effects with damage reduction/prevention

There's two general categories:

  • If an effect reduces the damage to "no damage" or "0 damage" specifically, then there's no amount of other modifiers that matter.
  • The "fixed amount" (+/- X). modifiers.  Everything else is just addition and subtraction where the order does not matter.  Note that the minimum damage clause in armor can't be evaluated until you've finished adding and subtracting all of the "fixed amount" modifiers.

After you've taken care if those two categories, then you know how much damage to apply and can resolve damage prevention by soul stones.

 

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