Black Friday Sale

[Mr MR Dub]

Hi folks! I’d like to share some thoughts on the upcoming Black Friday Sale...

Firstly, I, probably like quite a few, have been looking forward to this sale. It’s biannual for [deity]sake! Chance to get limited edition cool stuff! Yesssss! I personally was looking forward to getting Dr Alexei Sokolov as an alternate Joss, because I dig the mini and didn’t want to go for the full Ramos set. I thought similarly about Miss Step too. The other was the clearly badass Alt McCabe Wild Ones crew.

I wondered if a preview of what’s on offer in the sale would come, it came... The LIST. All the alts and in translucents and everything. Awesome. Then, the number at the end, lacking currency symbol... I’m right in assuming American Dollars, right?

The numbers themselves... they’re not cheap, I’d go so far as to saying, they’re very expensive. Not expensive, very expensive.

($?)35 for Alexei Sokolov seems way too much. My reasoning: First, current minis of equivalent size. I’d say Alexei Sokolov is around the same size as say Master Queeg or Allison Dade or Anna Lovelace or The Forgotten Marshal or day Hayreddin. These size of minis are priced $11. Minis of the approx this size come in packs of 3 (Necropunks, Guild Autopsies, Gaki, Silurids or Stitched Together for example) for $21. Packs of 2 pieces the same size or slightly bigger/more complex are priced $16/18.

Another point on priced and linked to the above is the “Miss” minis. They’re roughly all the same as the above mention barring a couple and these are all ($?)25. So a good deal less, approx 30%. Now I thought this strange as a difference because I’ve looked at the Guilder store and what these minis are priced in guilders. The “Miss” minis are 7 guilders and Alexei Sokolov is 5. That doesn’t fit with the above either.

$35 buys premium, large products, like the Rail Golem, the riders, a Peacekeeper or a Rogue Necromancy. There are a lot of sets lower in price and a few not far off with crews only $5/10/15 more.

I understand Wyrd are a company making money, sure, but this all seems too much and to not make much sense. Black Friday Sales, even though I live in the UK and we have just adopted the sales and spending, not Thanksgiving itself, are supposedly a time to get products cheaper... I’ve already found an online retailer (no FLGS near me I’m afraid) that’s going to have a sale on Malifaux at 30% off from what I gather. That excites me, I’m going to get my first Wyrd Miniatures. I’ve bought the books, which are hefty and priced hefty too, fair enough I’d say. 

I think what my point is, is that the National Game and Puzzle week, Black Friday, Thanksgiving, birthday (and so much more) sale doesn’t seem to be a “sale” but more a “Limited editions, priced highly, for sale” Sale. There are no discounts as far as I can see mentioned, in terms of numbers anyway... I get there will be at the time on the online store, but no discount figures mentioned. I’m sure there’ll be savings to be had, maybe even really good savings, but as this is my first sale, I can’t speak from experience.

I, like everyone, like to buy things at a fair price. The specials don’t seem fairly priced, according to the above anyway.

Shipping too is also very expensive and quite prohibiting to the UK. Min approx $25. That’s a decent sets price. Funnily though there’s an anomaly in the shipping prices too. When checking what they would be I found that USPS First-Class Package International Service is $24.50 and FedEx International Economy is $46.44. Economy is pretty much twice first-class! Ha! These are the too cheapest too. It saddens me because it’s so prohibitive.

I’m not sure what I expect from saying all of this. I think it’s mainly understanding and some empathy, often in short supply these days. The prices will most likely remain unchanged and I respect the decision even if I don’t agree. Just speaking as a customer wanting to purchase.

I’m not going to be able to get these minis, because the costs are so prohibitive. I have money I want to spend on Wyrd products. I want to collect them, lovingly paint them and play the game with them. Buying more as I progress and to read the further adventures of Malifaux! Seemingly, I likely will get some bits in the sale and go from there. It may ultimately stop me spending where I once would.

I’m chronically ill and unable to work at the moment and have only so much money spare, just in case you thought me cheap after all the above.

Long post I guess... Probably could have been shorter, guess it’s the woe coming through. Apologies!

[Wayne1017]

I'm with you on the prices. I were looking forward to the sale, but am hesitant to order something. It's a shame that europe can't get the limited products for a reasonable price. Shipping to germany is as much as to the UK, additional taxes would be 19%, so for example only getting the alt Titania would cost me around 50€ (included shipping and taxes). Wyrd has to find a way in the future, to properly include the european market in this limited edition sales as well, since this is the only time for us, that we can get some of this minis, especially the ones release for Gen Con.

Instead of putting my money into these hefty prices, I'm also ordering from the UK store, that has a 30% discount on most Malifaux products now, and since the UK is still in the european union, I don't have to pay additional taxes and the shipping is free for orders over 60GBP.

"So sad"

[spect_spidey]

I live in the U.S. and I agree with you. $25 for a human sized model! That is bordering on Games Workshop prices. Wyrd does a lot of great things with their local store promotions and Guilders, but these prices are a bit much for individual models. The other thing about them is that most of these are items that are awarded in mystery boxes for tournament prizes. Heck several of these that are on the list at $25 were given away for Free RPG Day here in the U.S. IMHO, you can't really call it a sale if there is no discount. This is just a similar move like Disney performs with its classic movies. Twice a year, Wyrd lets some of these models out of the "vault" to create hype and false demand. This makes people spend more money than they normally would because of the "if I don't act now, I won't be able to get model X until Easter!" mentality.

I have only been playing Malifaux for less than a year. I started in May. Part of the reason that I started playing the game was how the company supported the local stores, gave their Henchmen great prize support, and published a free magazine. These "sales" lower my view of the company. It actually started when I was hyped for the GenCon "sale" only to find that there were no discounts. It was just a way to allow people to get some items early which in turn can hurt local retailer sales when the items officially release. A big disappointment for me.

[wizuriel]

Keep in mind but all these models are all alternatives and limited edition. That means they are rare(ish) as Wyrd doesn't mass produce them. You end up paying more for that rarity. If you want a cheaper price you can always buy the normal mass produced models at a FLGS. 

 

Also it is a sale if you just need a model or so

I for instance have the metal Rasputina box and can't easily get the wendigo. I can pay $14 for the 1 model (https://www.gadzooksgaming.com/products/wendigo-children-of-december-rasputina-box-wyr20303) or $75 that gets me 3 cool new sculpts, the wendigo, snowstorm ($33.95 CDN value for me) and an alt Rasputina.

 

So individually can spend: 17.87 (wendigo) + 33.95 (snowstorm) + $2 (trying to photocopy wendigo card) + assuming $10 for shipping =  63.82

or the boxset: 95.73ish + assuming $20 for shipping

personally I feel the difference of $50ish to be pretty fair and worth it.

[Tenshi]

Most of these Alt models you can get for free at tourneys, or with the spend X at your local store promotions (they'll even ship it free for you!).

Now they're giving you a chance to buy the ones you really want, at a premium.

They're even adding free Alt Masters from the Guilder store. Great for those that can't go to tourneys and don't have guilders to spend.

[Mr MR Dub]

I can’t comment on exchange rates for all the different places, like Canada, or shipping, which I imagine is OK from there. That same scenario really isn’t cheap for me as per OP.

I don’t yet have access to tourneys as I’ve not actually bought miniatures yet, these will be the first and I want to make them count from the start.

I’ve contact my Henchman after looking them up. They’ve not replied in a month and I really don’t think they’ve been online for a while. Maybe no-one round here was playing much so they stopped bothering? No idea.

My point wasn’t just the premium, but the inconsistencies too.

I like how people think alt miniatures aren’t mass produced. Surely they have to create the molds and do the runs the same. Why not make lots! I suspect not as many as usual, but still “mass production”. They’re kept as special, thrice as expensive as equivalent and sold only these times, which is the sad part, because it means none for me, despite really wanting them and willing to pay probably a bit more than usual, but 3x is too much.

Boo hoo, I know.

[wizuriel]

5 minutes ago, Mr MR Dub said:

I like how people think alt miniatures aren’t mass produced. Surely they have to create the molds and do the runs the same. Why not make lots!

Because they are at the end of the day they are just alt models. They are meant to be special which kind of translates to rare. Right now you either get them from events or promotions and for a premium can buy them direct during Black Friday.

Supposed Wyrd did mass produce them though, end of the day all that does it cause competition with themselves. Now instead of just selling Snowstorm for instance you can pick Snowstorm or Krumpus meaning they need to store 2 sets of products to give people choice. Retailers also need to pick of the 2 which to order and both will be competing for the same shelf space. 

[Mr MR Dub]

1 hour ago, wizuriel said:

Because they are at the end of the day they are just alt models. They are meant to be special which kind of translates to rare. Right now you either get them from events or promotions and for a premium can buy them direct during Black Friday.

Supposed Wyrd did mass produce them though, end of the day all that does it cause competition with themselves. Now instead of just selling Snowstorm for instance you can pick Snowstorm or Krumpus meaning they need to store 2 sets of products to give people choice. Retailers also need to pick of the 2 which to order and both will be competing for the same shelf space. 

It wasn’t a point on why they do limited sales on these miniatures, it was more points on how.

I know they’re special, I want them!

[Adran]

The Wyrd sale has always been a "Chance to buy things that you can't normally" type of sale, not a "buy things cheaper" sale. 

The cost of things hasn;'t surprised me (Most of it was that price last year), and is a result of the costs of Plastic models, where its not the material you are paying for, its the complexity of the mold, and the cost of cutting the mold. Limited edition stuff is always going to be more expensive than  reagular stuff in plastic because you don't normally make the same quantities, and if the mold costs $100,00 to make, you have to spread that cost over a lot fewer models to break even. 

I've personally found that shipping and customs adds about £60 to my order, so I now don't order every gencon and Black Friday, but instead do it in one lump sum every couple of years.Its one of the reasons I'm sad that Krampus isn't going to reach the shops where as The Tortoise and the Hare did. 

 

[spect_spidey]

I understand that there is cost for the design, molds, production, etc. for these alt and limited models. We have to understand that these types of models can be partially written off as promotional and marketing items. They are used to draw people to events, tournaments, or to purchase from their local stores. And we have to realize that some of these alts aren't really alts. They are an extra design that they decided to leave out of the normal box. A prime example is the Katanaka Sniper. The alt is clearly a third model that is on the same sprue as the other two, but was cut off, given away in promotions (which are tax write offs) or sold at a premium during these "sales". We can clearly see where it was part of the original sprue, but for some reason it was decided to sell two instead of three. Is that really worth $25? It is like a video game designer leaving content out of their game on release day and then charging for it on release day. 

 

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

The Wyrd sale has always been a "Chance to buy things that you can't normally" type of sale, not a "buy things cheaper" sale. 

The cost of things hasn;'t surprised me (Most of it was that price last year), and is a result of the costs of Plastic models, where its not the material you are paying for, its the complexity of the mold, and the cost of cutting the mold. Limited edition stuff is always going to be more expensive than  reagular stuff in plastic because you don't normally make the same quantities, and if the mold costs $100,00 to make, you have to spread that cost over a lot fewer models to break even. 

I've personally found that shipping and customs adds about £60 to my order, so I now don't order every gencon and Black Friday, but instead do it in one lump sum every couple of years.Its one of the reasons I'm sad that Krampus isn't going to reach the shops where as The Tortoise and the Hare did. 

 

This is exactly it.  Wyrd has never claimed a discount. I don't think they have done any discount sales.  They have a couple times a year an opportunity to pick up rare stuff.  

Another point made at the top of this was for the Joss alternate.  You answered your question as to why it was more without realising it.  It comes as part of a box set, meaning it cannot be found any other way (than second hand/wyrd "sale").  This is why it is more expensive.  Other options are readily available because they come in numbers in individual boxes, but that is a specific rare 1 model that cannot be found elsewhere, so they price accordingly.  I'm glad you're excited and we're glad to have you. Welcome to Malifaux!  Just realise that Wyrd wants to sell their sets and not shred that value by handing them out in pieces.

[Mr MR Dub]

1 hour ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Another point made at the top of this was for the Joss alternate.  You answered your question as to why it was more without realising it.  It comes as part of a box set, meaning it cannot be found any other way (than second hand/wyrd "sale").  This is why it is more expensive.  Other options are readily available because they come in numbers in individual boxes, but that is a specific rare 1 model that cannot be found elsewhere, so they price accordingly.  I'm glad you're excited and we're glad to have you. Welcome to Malifaux!  Just realise that Wyrd wants to sell their sets and not shred that value by handing them out in pieces.

Dr Alexei Sokolov is his name. He isn’t part of any set, Joss is. I actually wanted the alt model, not just a Joss figure from that set. I might buy Ramos set, I might just sculpt something similar myself, who knows!

The guilder price of 5 for Sokolov and 7 for the “Miss” models though...

Also, consider this, if widely available products were to be obtained by guilders, how would that work? Big pieces like a rail golem, Master Queeg and the human sizes... The answer would likely be, “they won’t be ever available that way”, probably. You can guess why.

Its almost like the eBay hike you get when something is wanted more than something else, but essentially they’re equal. Popularity driving price up. I’ve always found the “worth” of things crazy, especially when you start to compare things.

Seems a bit of a cash grab and it’s totally Wyrds call to do it, I said I respect their decisions, but don’t agree and thought others might have opinions too. Like, agreement on both sides of reasoning. Deeply wishing for affordability. Don’t mind spending 100s of dollars/pounds/euros and such, they have the money and are willing regardless. It’s all opinion and no-one is wrong.

I only wished things were different in my OP.

Mine was a tale of woe, as originally woefully said.

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

3 hours ago, Mr MR Dub said:

Dr Alexei Sokolov is his name. He isn’t part of any set, Joss is. I actually wanted the alt model, not just a Joss figure from that set. I might buy Ramos set, I might just sculpt something similar myself, who knows!

I get that.  But it plays the same.  I don't know what you want for the model, cause it is awesome in its own right.  I just know that popular models (usually) only available from a box set (exception alternatives, only available as special sales or second hand) are more costly.  Fingers and Trixabelle from gremlins come to my mind but every faction has a model that makes a crew.  Freikorps Trappers and Librarians for another example of models many people love but need to get through the Von Schill box (usually).

I agree, the guilder price is a bit screwy given the way other things are.  That said, I've not gotten a single guilder so 5 seems a long way off, but I've been in posession of 2 "miss" models via FLG promotions Wyrd does.  Go figure.  

 

All in all, I'm not trying to change your mind, I feel you.  Cash is super tight for me also.  Gaming on a budget always feels like gleefully pulling fingernails.  Or some better analogy.

I'll probably be skipping this sale all together.  I've got a few other things I need to drop money on and don't have a job set up for next year at the moment so we all just see how things go.

Cheers.

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Oh, Just saw on store Alt Joss that he's listed as 25$