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Decision for a new player


AngelRogue

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Hello. Over the last 2 months, I have become extremely interested in Malifaux. I just bought the M2E book and have read and reread it multiple times already. Love the fluff, since I come from tabletop role-playing instead of wargaming. Anyway, I had an immediate draw to the Neverborn, mostly due to seeing Teddy a few years ago, and from the whole stuff of fantasy nightmare side of them.  As I started to research which crew box I wanted to start with, I found Titania. Theme hooked me, and my daughter's name is Tatyana, so it jumped to the front of the line. Anyway, I kept digging and really enjoy just about everything neverborn, and their ladies(of course) and lurked this forum for the last couple of weeks. I have seen a lot of dissenting opinion on Titania and saw the draws of Lilith. I enjoy how both Masters seem to have a lot of movement tricks. Anyway, to the main point. I am about to purchase my first crew box, and only the crew box to start, but I plan to get the other in the future. I need help trying to decide whether to start with Titania or Lilith. I am not scared of learning a trickier Master, so ease of use is not a big factor for me. In other game types, I also tend to try and be a meta breaker. So would it be better to just go ahead and start as Titania and start building around her or to get Lilith, knowing that I will branch into Titania as my main in the future? I know this just an opinion question but I am trying to figure out my play style in this game.

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Get Titania. If your thought process is 'I will main this later', just main it now. You're a grown up, this is a game, I'm confident you will be able to pick up either just as easily. So it comes down to preference, and you obviously prefer Titania, so get Titania.

 

When deciding between masters/factions/minis, always, always get the thing you like the look/lore of more. Otherwise, you'll just get bored and drop it anyways.

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I get that but I wouldn't get bored with Lilith either. Still want her as well. I just considered getting Lilith both for play style and for models in her box, which I figured I could use to help pull off schemes or disrupt when I do play as Titania. And having the M2E book only, I have been able to do more reading on her cards and crew. So to me, going either route is a win win. I just am enjoying the planning and thought I would ask. So thank you 

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I (as a relatively new player that owns both masters) would recommend Titania. I just felt that her crew can do more interesting things. Sure, you won't have a dedicated scheme runner, but in the Lilith box, half your crew is and you just don't need that.

On the other hand, as I've written in another thread, if the people you're playing with are also just starting up, they'll be in the same situation so lacking or having too manyscheme fingers will be less of an issue.

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Thanks guys. I'm not really sure what gg18 is, though I've seen it referenced on here. But since you mention the Emissary, which crew does it fit with better? Or is it general utility like the doppleganger?

I will probably mostly be playing with people who are new, but one of the LGS has players as well. How does Titania's crew do more interesting things?

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It's generally useful. You kind of want the box of changelings to get the most out of it since it can summon those. I'd say they are also really useful to fill out on cheap activations since Titania has more expensive models in her crew.

GG is gaining grounds. They release a tournament pack each year where they change the objectives of the game. As a new player you could play with the strats and schemes from the book to not have to learn others.

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i main titania quite often and find her more appealing over lilith simply because i find that i can switch between heavy aggro and scheming alot easier midgame if necessary. the autumn knights are excellent for this, especially tooth, as they can often drop a scheme marker as part of a trigger.

also the rougarou and the twins provide extra killy goodness with the pounce ability when combined with tooth. 

thorn has a good :melee range and can draw you an extra card as a trigger.

aeslin can deal with Ca heavy crews and also prevent any movement shenanigans (dodges the pistol whip) from an opponents crew.

gorar can obviously get back a minion after it dies

titania herself with the new upgrades can tank fairly well, especially when using aether connections. also has push shenanigans ( black joker'd on the pistol whip) and can boost damage if within range of friendly scheme markers

overall though she is fairly easy to pick up, just expect to drop alot of scheme markers.

as for dedicated scheme runners, i like to use either gupp swarms or insidious madnesses. if using the gupps i can drop scheme markers close to titanina on first turn to allow her to push a model up using a (0) action

and finally when using the mysterous emissary, i find that it works best with titania as the primal conflux allows you to boost friendly fae models plus adding a suit of your choosing when within 3" of a hungry land marker

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30 minutes ago, AngelRogue said:

So where exactly do I find the new upgrades? Just the Broken Promises book or is there something else? And is Gaining Grounds a book, memo, etc?

The app has them, broken promises has them and there is an upgrade deck sold separately that has them all.

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the new upgrades for titania really are not essential, others will say otherwise. the new upgrades for titania allow you to reduce the amount of dmg from models based on its station (peon-henchman), allows you to turn living models into undead fae, gives fae armor +1.

while the other allows you to deal +1 dmg to masters and choose a suit of your choice (also against masters), prevents ss use, and gives you a solid attack action that requires a crow to pull off (the crow is not built in)

because of these upgrades it has turned titania into a better tank than she was before broken promises. again, they come in handy but depending on your opponents crew and your strat and schemes they may not necessarily be used (again some will disagree here and say that either one is a always must take)

as for gg18, it is usually a tournament document that can be downloaded for free in the community resource section of the main page. or you can purchase the strat and scheme deck from wargame vault in january. 

and the broken promises upgrades can be obtained from the broken promises upgrade deck. i will also suggest the generalist upgrade deck 1 & 2, as there are some good upgrades in there for just about everything. 

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GG17 can be found here: https://www.wyrd-games.net/resources

The final beta test doc for GG18 can be found here: 

 

The Strats and Schemes from the main rulebook are fine for learning but most find the GGs to be better balanced/more interesting. Also if you intend to go to Malifaux Events it's good to practice with GG.

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Thanks everyone. I enjoy all the info and really like hearing more about Titania play. I am still a bit on the fence between the two, but at least now, playwise, I don't feel as much like I may regret it if I choose the Titania crew. Aside from the suggested models to go with either crew, what kind of movement, attacks and general tactics do you all find most effective for both crews?

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teddy is one of those pieces that if i took in a titania/lilith crew i would have to build around it. such as using lilitu and lelu or a rougarou to draw in models so teddy can spread his hugs, which can force pushes to trigger pounce attacks. and find a way to force wp duels so you can get a free attack if a model fails one.

however he has a low def and mid wp, so even with impossible to wound he can go down pretty hard.

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Ok. I will keep that in mind when I do start expanding. I do like the Emissary model and the Changelings, so they may be a place I expand to sooner. I understand, also, that the wisps and cyclops are supposed to synergize with Titania, but in what way does it work? 

Sorry for all the questions but I am big on research.

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Both Titania and Lilith give you several good options for your crew. Besides, you'll probably end up with at least two masters (I play for about a month and have three). Nekima is a good all-around enforcer, there are not so many things that will survive her attacks. Dopelanger is usefull in every crew, as she copies the action of any model in 8". Mr. Graves (along with Dopelanger and perhaps Changelings) will give your crew some more mobility and punch. Waldgheists will protect your models from harm. Lelu and Lilitu play very well with both Lilith and Titania (and Pandora!). All in all, in Malifaux you build your crew just before the game, knowing who your oponent is and what your objectives will, so having multiple choices is very good. IMHO buying two boxes (Titania's and Lilith's) will give you several good options to build your crew, and you can start from there. Oh, and last but not least - welcome to the Neverborn family! :)

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Thank you. I've seen a lot of posts over which models to get, but I have seen less about placement. I've seen reference for Pandora about creating a bubble, or (in rezzers)seamus' crew stick close while seamus himself runs around guerilla style, but very little like that for Titania or Lilith. I am curious about how some of the synergies work but also about tactical positioning to get the most out of each models placement,  specifically the crews straight out of box. 

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Ok. I went ahead and made a decision on purchase order, in no small part due to all of your advice. I will go ahead and make the jump to Titania since I am no longer worried about her being not as competitive. I appreciate all the suggestions and this actually helped me figure out purchase order as well. Initially, I thought going to Lilith's crew immediately following would be my answer. But now I am thinking emissary and Changelings next, then Lilith. I already know that down the line I would like the doppelganger. It's utility is just too good, and they are one hell of an enemy in D&D. Lol I think the Emissary now would benefit both Titania and Lilith for filling out SS and for the terrain action and such. So I thank you all for helping me with that. I will take my tactical questions to another thread since it may help other people as well as myself.

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5 hours ago, AngelRogue said:

Thank you. I've seen a lot of posts over which models to get, but I have seen less about placement. I've seen reference for Pandora about creating a bubble, or (in rezzers)seamus' crew stick close while seamus himself runs around guerilla style, but very little like that for Titania or Lilith. I am curious about how some of the synergies work but also about tactical positioning to get the most out of each models placement,  specifically the crews straight out of box. 

I think that will be easy to work out when you read cards of your units, if they buff each other, it's usually good to stay within the buff's range. Don't forget about scheme running, you need at least one model which will be fast enough to run around, place scheme markers etc.

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