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Wrastlers


wobbly_goggy

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Obviously big love for this guys simply because wrestlers are cool and wrestlers+gremlins=too much awesomeness (and I'm sure I'm not the only one secretly wishing for a Wrestler Master with manager totem and some lady wrestlers and basically a whole crew of wrestlers)

But. Am I missing something? 

Their Ml7 (Ml8 with Mah...) attack has an auto trigger to do a 1/2/3 damage after succeeding. Min damage is 1 on that attack. 

But surely this auto trigger damage flip is cheatable as it does not specifically say that it isn't? And unless suffering from negatives or otherwise stated, damage flips can be cheated, right?

If I've made an utter nincompoop of myself by typing these words, give me a slap on the wrist and a stern telling off. 

But if I am.... why the hell are you lot not all raving about this?! Whilst slightly card intensive (and yes Rg1 sucks etc), that's min 1 damage +3 cheated flip= 4 min  damage. At Ml7 you're pretty likely to hit, so you can save your decent card for the extra damage flip (hopefully). So assuming the best case scenario, that's 3 severe+ 3 cheated= 6 damage. From ONE AP. That's mental. Add in the ability to discard a marker to add 1 damage for the activation and you've got potentially 2 x 7 damage .... from a 5ss model. Of course add in fast from an Iron Skeeter and you're laughing. (yes someone else has to be within engagement range, but with out activation and more models, that shouldn't be hard to do)

I'm pinching myself that a 5ss minion could be so aces, so kind of hoping I've missed something here (though of course I don't want to look like a twit.)

However, If I am right... YAY WRASTLERS! 

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It's only cheateable if the original damage flip is too.

FAQ: 75) If a Trigger on an Action causes damage (whether a flip or a fixed amount), does that count as part of the original Action? Is it modified by effects like the Accuracy Modifier and Focus? Do fixed damage bonuses (such as from Hallucinogens or The Bigger They Are) apply to the Trigger? Triggers that cause damage are a part of the Action which caused them. Any damage flip on such a Trigger would retain any Fate Modifiers to the original flip including Accuracy, Focus, cover, etc. Any fixed damage (such as the +1 damage from The Bigger They Are) only applies to the initial Action (not any resulting Triggers).

Their attack can be pretty good and probably works nicely with things like Encouragement and Focus. But if you want a 5 stone minion that is so aces, have you heard of slop haulers and lightning bugs? :P

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So a few things

1) They take a lot of setup to do that insane damage. They need to start or end a charge by some kind of marker and have another friendly target engaged in combat and within 8" of said target. That is a lot of moving parts

2) Accuracy modifier I believe still carries over and fixed damage increase does not

Quote

75. If a Trigger on an Action causes damage (whether a flip or a fixed amount), does that count as part of the original Action? Is it modified by effects like the Accuracy Modifier and Focus? Do fixed damage bonuses (such as from Hallucinogens or The Bigger They Are) apply to the Trigger? Triggers that cause damage are a part of the Action which caused them. Any damage flip on such a Trigger would retain any Fate Modifiers to the original flip including Accuracy, Focus, cover, etc. Any fixed damage (such as the +1 damage from The Bigger They Are) only applies to the initial Action (not any resulting Triggers).

So to cheat you still need a straight flip on the initial damage. 

So if the stars align a wrastler can do: 2/3/4 + 1/2/3 damage so: 3/4/5/6/7  which after 2 attacks can be 6/8/10/12/14 and with Mi 7 they are pretty likely to hit

For the same point cost you can just charge a survivor into that combat. Survivor only have Mi: 5 and does 2/4/5 damage, with 3 AP from reckless they can get to 6/12/15 damage and require a lot less hurdles to do that. Same cost you can get lightning bugs and slop haulers that still do good damage and bring a lot more utility and flexibility

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I think they have their spot in some lists and they do seem rather fun.  With banjos able to give a push to all gremlins you might have more opportunity to get the tag team to be available.

Or chauffeur one with an Ironskeeter. :D  But yes, as they mentioned above, trigger doesn't get +1 dmg from a marker.  But its still cool because you can cheat the trigger regardless of regular damage flip. So always possible to get an extra 3 (given you did initial damage and had/drew a high card).  Not sure what RJ would do to the trigger damage but I assume 4 dmg.

@wizuriel Have you had much luck with Survivors?  They seem tricky for me.  I'd like to bring them for a Zipp crew but again feel slop and other options are just better.

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26 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

But its still cool because you can cheat the trigger regardless of regular damage flip.

No...

You cannot cheat the second flip if the original was on negatives. That's what both just said.

 

As for wrastlers I love them. Pretty mobile. Reliable damage. Good way to remove corpse/scrap if your opponent is reliant on those resources. 

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12 hours ago, Flinroz said:

No...

You cannot cheat the second flip if the original was on negatives. That's what both just said.

 

As for wrastlers I love them. Pretty mobile. Reliable damage. Good way to remove corpse/scrap if your opponent is reliant on those resources. 

Ahh, ok.  Read it wrong.  Accuracy modifiers = +, straight, - flip I take it then.

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I mean they are so annoying to set up vs a slop, survivor or lightning bug with 12-13 inch walk charge ranges. The charge range on a wrastler is 8 so I mean getting there is hard and they take so many resources to do more damage... it just makes no sense. I agree with @Ikiwith the push tactical action should be a (0). That would be cool and would provide them some support like lightning bugs and slip haulers and then would give them an 11 inch potential engagement range (target themselves) or become a cool support piece. Also the Tn means you need a 9 already anyway so at least the wrastler would have some use.

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Imo, they were designed for Mah. 7CG is good, but without pushes it's really hard to set them up for decent damage. I took them a lot, lately, and they are pretty good against heavy armored models(Not as good as bugs, tho) and models that rely much on htk. (Minimum 4 dmg from diffirent sources.) Also, "I yeld" is situationaly awesome. Whan you are untargeteble, you still can engage enemy big beaters, and attack them again next turn(assuming you play Mah and cheat initiative).
So, imo, they are good replacement for Bugs, but they are Mah-only, just like Swine-Cursed are Wong only. (Yeah-yeah, i know you can use them with other masters, but there are always better options). Sorry for my broken english.

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