Schemes & Stones Pre-Jan 2018 Errata (Guild)

[Khyodee]

Let us know what you think about the guild models/upgrades we discuss in this episode here.

http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/e/episode-77-pre-jan-2018-errata-thoughts/

[wizuriel]

imo

Hopkins: Add nimble, make his upgrade a 0pt upgrade, then give him new upgrades that add to his defense or summon traps or something else suggested

Guild Guard: Reduce the cost of a Guild Guard by 1 per every other Guardsman enforcer or Hecnhman hired. Make Patrol work with other guardsman and not just Guild Guard

Govonor Proxy: Agreed. He needs a higher WK. I would increase the Ca on Yes Man. Lucius might get use of him?

Death Marshal: imo they are good as they are. +1Wd would be great for them

Judge: I like him  Yeah his push should lose the 

heartsbane imo is fine

Rifleman: honestly the entire Guardsman line needs to be redone imo. I think an upgrade giving them from the shadow would be cool

[Jinn]

8 hours ago, wizuriel said:

Guild Guard: Reduce the cost of a Guild Guard by 1 per every other Guardsman enforcer or Hecnhman hired. Make Patrol work with other guardsman and not just Guild Guard

Dashel + Queeg + Guild Sergeant = 1SS Guild Guard... This game doesn't need more spammable 3SS models IMO.

[Ludvig]

40 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Dashel + Queeg + Guild Sergeant = 1SS Guild Guard... This game doesn't need more spammable 3SS models IMO.

I think he meant every other as in every two so they would be 3ss in your example.

I would prefer they just got cordon back and their df buff from any guardsman nearby.

The proxy needs more range on thr heal and longer move to have any purpose.

[Atoli]

"Rifleman: honestly the entire Guardsman line needs to be redone imo. I think an upgrade giving them from the shadow would be cool"

I really dont understand this idea.  They need another guardsman near them to have bonus, they are slow a very weak without any push from melee, why I would like them to pop alone near the enemy?

 

Why on this list no one mentions egzorcist? do you like this model? What about Witchling handler? Guild Lawyer?

I listened over 1 hour of fine ideas for other factions, and when Guild part shows up there was only one concrete idea give Dm a +1 wound and maybe GG with always DF 6 (or at least near other guardsman). Whats up with that  

 

From me: 

Samuel - he is slow glass cannon. Thats an opposite od glass cannon idea  He needs nimble and his up must be in his card. Its very strange that Sonia which is also some kind of glass canon has hanchemn with that same role.

GG - always Df 6, give him some nice interaction with other guardsman like +1 ML/SH when near another Guardsman within x inches (stacking)

Governors Proxy - our masters have a very nice totems, but we dont have one that have a nice heal (maybe aoe) and that can counter deactivation from other factions, maybe give him incite. More WK.

Ordely - oh man i dont know, maybe some shanningas from nurse,  not all of them but the same, Like paralize or more wk for someone else.

DM - +1 wound its good idea

Sidir - by you side on his card, not as 0 up 

Scale of Justice - this i dont understand, after wave 4 with Recruiters, Monster hunters and Swordfighter its just awsome.

Pale Rider - Mabybe aura that gives free Rams for other models

Judge - drop pistol from his push, lower his up cost, some interactions with marshals. I like this JJE idea but i dont thing he needs to give addtional attack, maybe some additional moves for them. 

Sry for bad english

 

[4thstringer]

Talking with friends, I suspect I approach this differently that most people.  Though sam would have made my list, he certainly wouldn't have been 1.   Where was the talk about the handler, the exorcist, the lone marshall?  I guess it is possible that the lone marshall is good, but no one would know because he has literally never been on the table for anyone.  Hell I think the Guild Sarge should be on there before Sam or the Judge.  If sam is fragile the guild sarge is made of porcelain.  And I don't love Sam or the Judge, I just think they have niche spots for creative list building. 

Not that I don't think Sam and the Judge need power ups to be true parts of competitive lists, but they both do enough to fit into the game as a whole.  Those other ones really don't.

[wizuriel]

Yeah Exorcist, handler and Sergeants really should have made the list imo (especially over the scales of justice or Sidir).

Lone Marshall's biggest problem is the model is really expensive

 

What I was trying to say with Guardsmans is imo they are supposed to be played in pairs and played off each other. Problem is they are too expensive to make a list of them. What I would like to see is the cheaper minion models become cheaper is you hire them in squads with enforcers or henchmen to kind of make them feel like a structured military unit.

 

Maybe add a general rule to each Guardsmans enforcer / henchmen:

Need More Red Shirts: Reduce the cost of 1 Guardsman minion model by 1 for every model hired with this ability

So say this is on sergeants and I hire 2 Sergeants that will reduce the cost of 2 Guild Guard by 1. 

 

[Rufess]

Not yet have time to listen the podcast, but it seems that you did not mention about the Pistoleros. I really like the models, however it is so hard to find a space for them while building crew. Especially we now have Monster Hunter as a gunslinger. I believe the Df aura is the key to differentiate them so maybe buffing the aura may help. Or maybe giving Pistoleros a opposite ability of MH to punish weaker model.

[Atoli]

1 hour ago, wizuriel said:

Yeah Exorcist, handler and Sergeants really should have made the list imo (especially over the scales of justice or Sidir).

Lone Marshall's biggest problem is the model is really expensive

 

What I was trying to say with Guardsmans is imo they are supposed to be played in pairs and played off each other. Problem is they are too expensive to make a list of them. What I would like to see is the cheaper minion models become cheaper is you hire them in squads with enforcers or henchmen to kind of make them feel like a structured military unit.

 

Maybe add a general rule to each Guardsmans enforcer / henchmen:

Need More Red Shirts: Reduce the cost of 1 Guardsman minion model by 1 for every model hired with this ability

So say this is on sergeants and I hire 2 Sergeants that will reduce the cost of 2 Guild Guard by 1. 

 

- 1 SS for Guild guard, dog, austinger, Pathfinder, Investigator, Wardens, I think its a little bit to much

and still Im not sure its a buff for GG because they still are rubish compare to other above choices  

[wizuriel]

13 minutes ago, Atoli said:

- 1 SS for Guild guard, dog, austinger, Pathfinder, Investigator, Wardens, I think its a little bit to much

and still Im not sure its a buff for GG because they still are rubish compare to other above choices  

fair point with dogs, pathfinder, investigator and austringers.

Was mainly thinking of Guild Guard, Riflemen, Mounted Guardsman and Wardens and I don't think -1SS would be terrible with them. If I had a sergeant already I feel you could make a case for hiring a 3SS guild Guard (especially if they get +2DF near another Guardsman and not just another guard) over a 2SS dog

[Ludvig]

Two soulstone dogs is just a bad idea. We've had errata on all  2ss models with activations because it's silly good. 

Hounds are fine really, maybe they could interact near any guardsman since that seems thematic and would make it possible to just round out a list with one. Guild guard are a bit weak but we won't want this to turn into a spam game and they're really close to good. Just give them df 5, wk 5 and remove the buddy bonus or something. Could also give them attack stats of 5 without boosting defense and they would be solid 4ss minions.

The problem with guard lists in my opinion is is that they don't really do cool stuff. They don't ignore any defenses, they don't attack well and they don't move far. They have tons of support but nothing worthwhile on their base cards to support. Riflemen with df 5 would also be fine, they have some nasty damage output for such a cheap model.

[4thstringer]

 

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Two soulstone dogs is just a bad idea. We've had errata on all  2ss models with activations because it's silly good. 

Hounds are fine really, maybe they could interact near any guardsman since that seems thematic and would make it possible to just round out a list with one. Guild guard are a bit weak but we won't want this to turn into a spam game and they're really close to good. Just give them df 5, wk 5 and remove the buddy bonus or something. Could also give them attack stats of 5 without boosting defense and they would be solid 4ss minions.

The problem with guard lists in my opinion is is that they don't really do cool stuff. They don't ignore any defenses, they don't attack well and they don't move far. They have tons of support but nothing worthwhile on their base cards to support. Riflemen with df 5 would also be fine, they have some nasty damage output for such a cheap model.

I don't think making riflemen df 5 would fix them.  As long at they are helpless if you engage them, they will be a fun pick only for me. 

Honestly, for GG, making them def 5 wk 5 and taking away the buddy bonus would just guarantee that I take Field reporters instead of them.  Their buddy six is literally the only reason I ever take them.

[Ludvig]

So make them df 6 and bring back Cordon! Maybe ml/sh 5 too.  If they actually hit somethih once in a while their condition will start to hurt.

Needing multiples of a cheap model is crappy. Stuff like mages are ok because it feels reasonable to build a list around but cheap activations always come to mind when rounding out the last few soulstones of a list and trying to squeze in two models instead of one. 

[4thstringer]

How about if they took the suit off menace?   I'd run them in that case. 

[Da Git]

Going back to the Judge, I feel he has a super simple fix, drop him to 8ss and his upgrade to 1ss.  And remove the  from his Push. 

I feel he's on par with Francisco and Phiona, so why does he and his upgrade both cost more? 

[4thstringer]

4 hours ago, Da Git said:

Going back to the Judge, I feel he has a super simple fix, drop him to 8ss and his upgrade to 1ss.  And remove the  from his Push. 

I feel he's on par with Francisco and Phiona, so why does he and his upgrade both cost more? 

Even if you did those things I'm not sure he measures up to those two.   But I'm not sure that's a fair metric as those two are two of the three best models we have (monster hunters being the third)

[Da Git]

That says a lot about those two though... They probably should be 8.5-9ss and the Judge 8-8.5ss.  It does kind of begger belief how the Judge has stayed worse, but more expensive... especially since his upgrade also costs 2ss!

Are the Monster Hunters really so good?

I agree there's lots of stuff in the Guild that need fixing...

[4thstringer]

35 minutes ago, Da Git said:

That says a lot about those two though... They probably should be 8.5-9ss and the Judge 8-8.5ss.  It does kind of begger belief how the Judge has stayed worse, but more expensive... especially since his upgrade also costs 2ss!

Are the Monster Hunters really so good?

I agree there's lots of stuff in the Guild that need fixing...

The people in my meta are sure that they are going to end up nerfed.  I don't think they are that out of line, but I do think they are some of the best purchases in guild, and a competitive list for me will almost always start with 2.  I can delete them later if I change my mind.

[RustAndTheCity]

3 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

The people in my meta are sure that they are going to end up nerfed.  I don't think they are that out of line, but I do think they are some of the best purchases in guild, and a competitive list for me will almost always start with 2.  I can delete them later if I change my mind.

What are they doing in games that is so effective? I've looked at their cards. They look like good anti scheme runners with their stalk and free attack after stalk. Card draw is awesome. The +1 damage against higher cost is great for a relatively cheap model to get to min 3 damage. That shoot 5 is a bit painful though.

Where do you find yourself using them in games and what makes them so effective? 

I find in guild that 6 ss models are competing against just taking cheap dogs for schemes and disruption or an 8ss henchman.

[4thstringer]

They are regularly killing over their weight in my meta.   I often run lucius which makes it worse.  I've linked someone from my meta to answer too.

[Arli]

Monster Hunters are, in my opinion, the best model currently in the game.  If I were playing Guild, I would include two in each and every list.  I play TT and I have no models that can even compete with them.  Yasanori is a great model, but I would love to have two Monster Hunters instead.    

The model is way under costed at 6SS for what it does.  Baring using a master to kill them, TT has no way to take them out.  Maybe I am just being salty, but I really don't feel like it.  The built in armor vs higher SS model attacks is amazing on those models.  

Again, I see these guys as more broken than the papa box or any current model in the game.

 

[Tris]

1 hour ago, Arli said:

Monster Hunters are, in my opinion, the best model currently in the game.  If I were playing Guild, I would include two in each and every list.  I play TT and I have no models that can even compete with them.  Yasanori is a great model, but I would love to have two Monster Hunters instead.    

The model is way under costed at 6SS for what it does.  Baring using a master to kill them, TT has no way to take them out.  Maybe I am just being salty, but I really don't feel like it.  The built in armor vs higher SS model attacks is amazing on those models.  

Again, I see these guys as more broken than the papa box or any current model in the game.

 

No way to take them out?

They are not invulnerable afaik?

Yasunori can still kill them if he has to, just like many other models - a charging yokai is no joke for them^^

 

And you can play around stalked, just try to put them in a disadvantagous position after the stalk move, so it's either this or no stalk move at all

[Arli]

I hadn't thought of using Yokai against them.