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Round Three Voting - Information

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5 minutes ago, neoezekiel said:

Also pulling up into the next tier or dropping down a tier is essentially the same as a bye.

By getting pulled up a tier one of two things happen; either you win or you go back to the same tier that you were at before getting bumped up.

By dropping down a tier you get you get paired against an inherently weaker opponent.

Finally, repairing is inherently unfair to both competitors that get repaired, both would have received a bye otherwise and would have progressed to the next round. In nearly any other system of competition that uses pairing if your opponent doesn't show up you get the win or get a bye. 

Changing the rules during a competition is NOT OK, it drastically changes the expectations of competitors, lessens the value of the competition, and cheapens the experience.

I am sorry that you didn't read all the rules:

" Keep in mind that this contest is designed for painters (and non-painters) to have fun. Although each round will have a winner, Iron Painter is as much about finishing every round as it is about winning. It’s a chance for you to get motivated and paint your minis! "

" If there are an uneven number of participants in Gold or Silver, the highest scoring member from the next-lowest tier will be moved up to fill in the gap (so a Silver will move to Gold, and a Bronze will move to Silver). Scoring will be determined based upon the composite totals of all previous models painted. "

" If there are multiple DNFs in a Round, their opponents who did finish their models will be randomly paired up against each other, as long as they are in the same Tier. Iron Painter is a competition, and if your opponent couldn’t handle the pressure, we’re going to go ahead and get you an adversary that is made of sterner stuff. "

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Yup, random re-pairing was in the rules. The bump-up as well.

Though that one is ill worded for multiple DNF.

Only thing I find weird is the "broken" pair this round in Bronze.

Anyway, my opponent showed this round, last one was a DNF.

Happy either way.

Honestly for me this format works great.

Subjectively I believe each of my entries has been an improvement to the previous one.

I can understand though that some may be put off by this non-standard approach.

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1 hour ago, Stonewall78 said:

" If there are an uneven number of participants in Gold or Silver, the highest scoring member from the next-lowest tier will be moved up to fill in the gap (so a Silver will move to Gold, and a Bronze will move to Silver). Scoring will be determined based upon the composite totals of all previous models painted. "

" If there are multiple DNFs in a Round, their opponents who did finish their models will be randomly paired up against each other, as long as they are in the same Tier. Iron Painter is a competition, and if your opponent couldn’t handle the pressure, we’re going to go ahead and get you an adversary that is made of sterner stuff. "

I also think, that this wording is not clear enough or can be interpreted in various ways. The first paragraph is missing a clarification, WHEN this rule is applied. I read it the way, that it is applied between duels, not while a duel is running. But it is not clearly stated. The second paragraph is about DNFs. It does not mention participants whose opponent is promoted into a higher category. It also says, that re-pairing happens within a tier. We are seeing re-pairings between bronze and silver tier. You could argue, that a promoted bronze is not in bronze anymore, but I have to think around a corner to grasp this. Not very clear. Also, this could happen, when thete is only a single DNF. So the multiple DNF constraint is irritating.

Dont't get me wrong. I am not complaining about  the way, Wyrd is handling the issue. But I think, a clearer wording is desirable. It is frustrating to see that your opponent can be handled first and then ... swoosh ... suddenly you never had a chance because you opponent has been promoted.

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53 minutes ago, Joe Cool said:

I also think, that this wording is not clear enough or can be interpreted in various ways.

But then it wouldn't be Wyrd :P Ambiguous rules are their jam.

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Just did my voting for the round. Some very tricky match ups and very interesting takes on the theme. I will say, though, that photography was a big part in my decision. Remember to have a focus object in your dioramas to help sell the scene. 

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On 15.11.2017 at 1:30 PM, ArD said:

Despite the fact that pair Nikshe vs ArD was existing pair, it was divided and participants were repaired. It was only one case of such repairing. What was the perpouse of that? 

 

Because you should never pair KGB agent with another KGB agent!

Sorry, it is impossible to resist the temptation of making that sort of jokes.

Good luck with your pair, and - well, I would be eliminated in any case.

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5 hours ago, Nikshe said:

 

Because you should never pair KGB agent with another KGB agent!

Sorry, it is impossible to resist the temptation of making that sort of jokes.

Good luck with your pair, and - well, I would be eliminated in any case.

See you next time and be alert, tovarishch.)

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I didn't expect to make it to the end, but I do wish for their to be a diorama vs model category in the future. The voting continues to heavily favor diorama's over single models, when the single models have superior technique (though that wasn't an issue with my elimination). I am not complaining about this contest for the record, I knew the rules when I signed up and don't wish for any changes to this contest. But in the future, I would greatly prefer contests of just models, or at least a category for that. 

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1 minute ago, Philosfr said:

I didn't expect to make it to the end, but I do wish for their to be a diorama vs model category in the future. The voting continues to heavily favor diorama's over single models, when the single models have superior technique (though that wasn't an issue with my elimination). I am not complaining about this contest for the record, I knew the rules when I signed up and don't wish for any changes to this contest. But in the future, I would greatly prefer contests of just models, or at least a category for that. 

Most of single miniatures haven't show the theme.

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2 minutes ago, Phosphexborn said:

Most of single miniatures haven't show the theme.

I disagree, this was a thing in round 1, but since r1 most of the single models have very much been appropriate for the theme.

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4 minutes ago, neoezekiel said:

I disagree, this was a thing in round 1, but since r1 most of the single models have very much been appropriate for the theme.

Appropriate? Yes. Demonstrated the theme better? Not usually.

There have been exceptions, but to me at least it's hard to demonstrate "water everywhere" with a single model (that's the problem my entry from last round had), and for this round, anything that was able to indicate or show the concept of parallel dimensions got my vote. That's also hard to do with a single model, and to my mind the key thing about the Stranger Things TV series (well, that and the 80s, but it doesn't seem any of the bronze painters tried to go there).

Just being strange wasn't really enough to get full theme marks for me.

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Just now, gribble said:

Appropriate? Yes. Demonstrated the theme better? Not usually.

There have been exceptions, but to me at least it's hard to demonstrate "water everywhere" with a single model (that's the problem my entry from last round had), and for this round, anything that was able to indicate or show the concept of parallel dimensions got my vote. That's also hard to do with a single model, and to my mind the key thing about the Stranger Things TV series (well, that and the 80s, but it doesn't seem any of the bronze painters tried to go there).

Just being strange wasn't really enough to get full theme marks for me.

The problem with this is that the theme wasn't Stranger Things (the show), it was just Stranger Things. They never specified farther. Granted, using the name of a popular show that also happens to be a very abstract and subjective subject probably wasn't the best choice given the audience. 

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Just now, neoezekiel said:

The problem with this is that the theme wasn't Stranger Things (the show), it was just Stranger Things. They never specified farther. Granted, using the name of a popular show that also happens to be a very abstract and subjective subject probably wasn't the best choice given the audience. 

Yeah, but I guess the point with a competition like this which has "public" voting, is that it's very much up to individual interpretation of the theme. Given that season 2 of the TV series has just been released, and that the theme was capitalised (i.e. "Stranger Things", rather than "stranger things" or even "Stranger things"), I at least felt that the entry should evoke the TV show. So those that did I marked higher than just something which was strange.

After all, probably 99% of all entries across all rounds so far have been what most people would call "strange".
:)

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Choosing a category ONLY based on a TV show not availabe worldwide for a global held contest would just be ... silly. Silver and Gold should get clear feedback on theme though and enlighten us downtrodden later. Lots of 0 points for theme there then :-)

As for the diorama vs. single model. Both have won and this round we have minimum one such case as well. Most are diorama vs. diorama though. So the point seems irrelevant mostly.

10 points is for theme, 10 for technical skill and 5 overall impression. No matter single or diorama. Technical skill is 40% only.

 

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3 minutes ago, Seneca said:

Choosing a category ONLY based on a TV show not availabe worldwide for a global held contest would just be ... silly. Silver and Gold should get clear feedback on theme though and enlighten us downtrodden later. Lots of 0 points for theme there then :-)

As for the diorama vs. single model. Both have won and this round we have minimum one such case as well. Most are diorama vs. diorama though. So the point seems irrelevant mostly.

10 points is for theme, 10 for technical skill and 5 overall impression. No matter single or diorama. Technical skill is 40% only.

 

Except that we are no longer putting in the point scores for bronze.

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16 minutes ago, Seneca said:

Choosing a category ONLY based on a TV show not availabe worldwide for a global held contest would just be ... silly. Silver and Gold should get clear feedback on theme though and enlighten us downtrodden later. Lots of 0 points for theme there then :-)

Well, I assume that if someone is unfamiliar with ST, then they wouldn't be judging the entries against it.

Me personally, that was my interpretation of the theme, and my scores were awarded accordingly. That being said, there were very few cases this round where it made much difference. To me at least (and it seems the majority of voters, given the margins of victory), most of the winners were clear.

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I've been quiet on this but here is my 2 cents. 

This is a FREE contest, for pretty good prizes. the rules were laid out up front. there are threads from previous years to view as well. If you were blindsided then you didn't read the rules well enough. 

But to complain about something Free for pretty good prizes is kind of lame. 

Enjoy the artwork and keep trying  if you ask for tips, people will give them. 

 

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I agree about there being a bit of a discrepancy in scoring between dioramas and single models, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a fixable thing (and I'm saying that as someone who has purposely limited himself to painting only game-usable single pieces). Two categories is a good idea in theory, but in practice it would just either needlessly bifurcate a contest that's already niche in terms of it's popularity or, if entries in multiple categories were allowed, would amp up the time pressure on the top performers who are competing for actual prizes beyond the self-improvement and odd raffle ticket that the rest of us are going to end up with.

As for the reshuffling and matchups issue, folks just kind of have to go with the flow for the most part. This seems like mostly a bronze tier (where I also dwell) problem, where the divergence in skill is biggest from top to bottom and you can get some pretty feelsbadman voting results if you get paired against someone much better than you, but that sword cuts both ways. For instance in round 2 I got repaired against @Domperignome, with whom I thought I was very evenly matched, and although I was able to come away with a win, he (she?) by no means deserved to be eliminated. From a quick glance I'd say that Dom's piece was better than about 75 percent of the bronze field that round. Another really good example of this is matchup 38 from that same round. @FinalForm got totally slammed in that vote because he (she?) had the bad luck to get matched against someone better that day, but there's no way the piece he did wasn't among the best of the round.

In the same vein, there have been a few matchups (that I won't give examples of) where I didn't want to vote for either entry because I though it was wrong that one of those luckily paired subpar entries got to advance while the FinalForms and Domperignomes didn't. It's just luck of the draw mostly and you can't do much about it.

If anything, I think I'd like to see some form of "bad luck" category where we can write in say two names for folks who we didn't vote for in that round because of how the matchups shook out, but we still think should advance based on the quality of their work relative to the field.

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That would be the "Cheat Fate" category via a vote, not random luck.

Seems this saw no use this time.

Still a good idea.

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