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wizuriel

Starting Lynch

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So kind of feel the urge to try something new and looking to give Lynch a try. I've never seen him in play and just wondering if anyone has a few tips and tricks and starting ideas?

My NB collection isn't the greatest, but in addition to Lynch's box I have:

-Doppleganger

-Nekima

-Puke Worm

-Candy

-2 Teddies

-Baby Kade

-Gupps

-2x Stitched Together

-2x Waldegeists 

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Doppleganger is a great addition for any crew I guess, Nekima will give him some punch, when you need a certain model dead for sure, the rest is a matter of playstyle.

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I would really recommend getting mysterious effigy. Lynch have abysmal defenses and that buff can really help, especially if you don't want to spend the stones on expert cheater.

Waldgeists could probably be a good inclusion. They give you some defensive depth so people can't just take out lynch. 

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NOTE: if you're not willing to proxy models or use the dual-faction possibilities of your master, check out a lot further down in my post

 

I would recommend the Beckoners with Lynch. They allow models to get lured next to Lynch, so he doesn't have to waste any movement at all for killing them. They can also deny Interact actions on Brillianced models, which can also be very powerful if you have an interact-heavy scheme pool. They are my staple picks with him together with Huggy and I never start a Lynch game without them.

 

That said I've started preferring Lynch in the Ten Thunders due to his new wave 5 upgrades. The problem is that Lynch has 2 really great Limited upgrades, but one of them just outshines the other and his playstyle doesn't really change. I'm talking about The Rising Sun (best upgrade) and Cheating Bastard (new upgrade).

In Neverborn you have to make a choice. Do I go for undying Huggy or do I go for second cheating? Really tough choice.

Ten Thunders laugh at this dilemma and bring a Terracotta Warrior (5 soulstones) which can swap upgrades with a (0) action and protect minions and enforcers with a (1) action.

 

Great, so what if I want to play Lynch in Neverborn and don't care about all that Ten Thunders Terracotta goodness?

If you decide to play Lynch in Neverborn, you can't substitute this behaviour. You'll have to decide on an upgrade. Both are very powerful, but I lean more towards Undying Huggy. However!! If you decide to bring CB as an upgrade, I can recommend Mr.Tannen. You cheat second with 6" of Lynch and Huggy and enemy models within 6" of Tannen have to discard a card to even be able to cheat. I got Huggy suprise-killed on Turn 2 of my last game while rocking CB, which was a major setback to my plan. I did bring Tannen to test him out and my opponent could barely do anything thanks to that!

 

So, what is your advice now?

First decide on a playstyle! This is the most important step for Lynch. Undying Huggy or Cheating second will have major influences on your crew selection.

 

For Undying Huggy I would run this as my core:

Lynch (The Rising Sun, Woke Up With A Hand, Wanna See A Trick)

Huggy

Nekima

Beckoner

 

For CB I would run the following

Lynch (Cheating Bastard, Woke Up With A Hand, Wanna See A Trick)

Huggy

Mr. Tannen

Mr. Graves

Beckoner

 

Great, I don't have half those models and don't want to proxy/buy. Thanks for nothing ...

Hang on, I've got your back! You have a decent amount of beaters, which Lynch likes ofcourse.

 

You can always go something like this:

Lynch (The Rising Sun/Cheating Bastard, Woke Up With A Hand, Wanna See A Trick)

Huggy

Nekima/Teddy

Baby Kade (only if taking Teddy though)

Stitched Together (as many as you like)

Waldgeist (4" engagement range on a tanky models can be oh so annoying!)

 

 

But you didn't even mention Doppleganger here. Your lists suck!!!!!!!

I'm not a huge fan of Doppleganger. She has her places, but I don't see her as a staple like some people do. I like her in Headhunter and Dig Their Graves sort of pools, but otherwhise she has not done the trick for me. This might have to do with how I build my lists as some people have lists meant to abuse her copy action.

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@whodares Cheers for the info. So do you mainly just use Lynch and Beckoners to spread brilliance (or is trying to spread brilliance a trap)?

With Woke up with a hand my understanding is you want to activate Lynch last. 

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I like Beckoners but find myself including Lilitu more often. I actually like the Beckoner's 4" push and ranged brilliance, but Lilitus lure and 4" range plus possibility to take an upgrade is great. 

Then, I often field Graves as a neater with Lynch. 

I'd second the purchase of the Effigy. Helping Lynch out with push if attacked is great to help keep Lynch from dying in melee. 

You can get Depleted, too. I actually don't take them that often. If you can get your hands on Terror Tots, they are nice too. They.fill a similar role as Gupps. But they have the mask trick were there have auto-sprint once you have an ace of mask on hand. 

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5 hours ago, wizuriel said:

@whodares Cheers for the info. So do you mainly just use Lynch and Beckoners to spread brilliance (or is trying to spread brilliance a trap)?

With Woke up with a hand my understanding is you want to activate Lynch last. 

I barely ever spread Brilliance because my crews don't really have that great of a synergy with it. I mainly use the beckoners for their lure to get stuff next to Lynch so he can blow them up.

My Lynch activation generally goes like this:

  1. Cheating Bastard reveal masks - should give a model closeby Brilliance
  2. Blast it with Final Debt for usuall 6-7 damage
    1. If model is still alive, check wounds and aces in hand.
      1. Enough aces to discard for killing blow = move around, interact ...
      2. not enough aces in hand = attack action, usually Play for Blood to avoid engagements and get a high Ca for 2 damage
    2. model is dead
      1. other model closeby
        1. Play for Blood = 2 damage and Brilliance
        2. do something else or another Play for Blood
        3. end activation and drop aces to deal 2 daamge per ace
      2. no other model closeby
        1. walk, interact, ...

Woke Up with a hand gives you 2 free cards to filter your deck. Any cards are great as they increase Final Debt damage. Even bad cards are great to have as you will have filtered your deck and have a higher chance of flipping high cards.

Don't make it a sacred vow though. If you have an opportunity with Lynch to deal massive damage or a crippling blow to your opponent, activate him and take full advantage. The Final Debt action alone is pretty much why I take this upgrade and the rest is just icing on the cake!

3 hours ago, Treehouse said:

I like Beckoners but find myself including Lilitu more often. I actually like the Beckoner's 4" push and ranged brilliance, but Lilitus lure and 4" range plus possibility to take an upgrade is great. 

Then, I often field Graves as a neater with Lynch. 

I'd second the purchase of the Effigy. Helping Lynch out with push if attacked is great to help keep Lynch from dying in melee. 

You can get Depleted, too. I actually don't take them that often. If you can get your hands on Terror Tots, they are nice too. They.fill a similar role as Gupps. But they have the mask trick were there have auto-sprint once you have an ace of mask on hand. 

Beckoners and Lilitu are indeed very much alike. If you're using them purely for the lure, Lilitu wins out. If you're going for anti-scheming, the beckoners win if you are effective in spreading Brilliance. Overall Lilitu is a better model, but I can't use her in the Ten Thunders, which is why I prefer a beckoner.

I'm still testing out Graves, but I haven't been blown away by him yet. I prefer to give some extra stones for Nekima or a Teddy, because I find their damage to be more reliable. If you're rocking the Tannen + Graves combo however, Graves becomes more mobile which is huge for him. In the Thunders I prefer to have the Emissary though, but that's because that Emissary is crazy strong with Lynch.

I just bought Depleted, so I can't really say much about them either. They are great for tarpitting as your opponent will need to spend some AP on removing them, but that's all they can do. For 4 soulstones they are some of the best possible tanky minions due to their 8 wounds, but the effigies are also fulfilling that role really well. if you're going thematic or a Brilliance crew, the Depleted win out due to their Brilliance explosion.

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I dont play Lynch but I have played against him a lot lately, especially with the new upgrade cheating bastard. And I can say this is annoying as fuck and powerfull. 

Cheating last is really really powerfull. 

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I'm still in the camp of 'don't rely on Brilliance to win you games' because I haven't seen a reason to trust other play styles.   So I generally prefer undying Huggy Bear.  I have never used Beckoners in a competitive list because Lilitu.  Better melee range, better Lure, I feel (just feeling mind) more able to put wounds on a model, same cost.  Doppel is great in scheme marker pools because of don't mind me, and in general because copying actions and cheating initiative which lets you be a little more aggressive since you can cheat to go first.  My opinion on Nekima is I love her.  However, 2 Illuminated for the cost of Nekima and a stone is usually where my mind goes.  

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Is there a real difference between 10T and Neverborn Lynch?
Who is cheaper to play as a new player?

Am i getting right that Tannen, Graves, Depleted and Beckoners are core and duo-fraction models and suitinig well for both 10T and Neverborn side?

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Neither Tannen nor Graves are core as they don't have any synergy with Lynch n Brilliance in general. 

That being said, I can't play Lynch so don't take any advice from me. 

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I'm playing Lynch as Neverborn and there are no such question as "what Limited Upgrade Lynch should take?" Rising Sun offers a huge buff, but only for one model. While Cheating Bastard provides buffs for a whole Crew.

So the only thing we need to think is how to use them properly.

So I usualy don't use Huggy as a forward line model. Instead of it, she serves as a core of card-drawing engine that allows me to bust my hand up to 19 cards (who said "6-7 damage on Final Debt is enough"?) Other parts of this engine are Bloodwretch (with her tactical that allows "draw2|discard1 on damaging any models" thing with aces to come back discarded) and Doppleganger (with a 0- to copy this action, making it free for trigger and then use it's effort twice). Also while cycling cards such a way, it's preety easy to find all 4 Aces.

The other part of a Crew is Hans. While lots of his mechanics based on discarding cards, he becomes awesome with returning Aces. 

Next one is Mysterious Effigy - not so usefull when Cheating Bastard comes to play, but he can place Scheme Markers and give Lynch some moivement protection.

The next player is Mysterious Emissary. This is the best thing Neverborn can offer to Lynch. His Hungry land traps, his conflux action to push models and mostly his ability to summon Changelings makes him an auto-choice for me. Changellings themselves are the best summon you need - since they can copy Hans'es rifle (and shoot from afar while staying in "second-cheating" bubble from Huggy), Huggy's Heed My Voice and even Final Debt (with good masks on a hand, of course).

The last, but not the least part is the Lynch itself paired with Beckoner. The "living belle" is mostly used not to spread Brilliance, but to taxi the Lynch to his target - or targets to Lynch. With a free push from Emy and bulit-in pushes in her lure, she can move Lynch 8" outside of his own activation. And it's only one way of using her)

The Lynch himself carries Cheating Bastard, Burn Out (an action-free summon with just discarding some cards? gimme two!) and Woke Up with a Hand. With all the card-drawing stuff he is preety sure to have 3 masks on a hand for a full set of Cheating Bastard's buffs. And nealy anyone who ends an activation within 8 of him, will die in pain. 

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Ok, starting hand of 6, bloodwretches + doppelganger manage to draw 4 plus all 4 aces. Where does the remaining 5 cards to bring it to 19 come from?

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26 minutes ago, emiba said:

Ok, starting hand of 6, bloodwretches + doppelganger manage to draw 4 plus all 4 aces. Where does the remaining 5 cards to bring it to 19 come from?

The idea is that the Doppelgänger copies The Rage Builds, and you've got an Ace in hand. Doppelgänger attacks something twice (Serena Bowman is a good target), doing the "draw 2, discard 1" thing two times per attack thanks to her trigger (which will likely cost you a mid Tomes from your hand). Even with 5 cards left, that's 13 cards in hand once she's done.

Then, the Bloodwretches go - The Rage Builds,  then one attack from each, draw two and discard an Ace each time. The Ace rebounds each time. My math puts that at 17 cards. Then, Lynch goes last, and draws two more cards from Woke Up With A Hand.

In the Disneyland scenario where you pull that off, that's 19 cards, plus any extra Aces you've flipped.

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27 minutes ago, emiba said:

Ok, starting hand of 6, bloodwretches + doppelganger manage to draw 4 plus all 4 aces. Where does the remaining 5 cards to bring it to 19 come from?

The exact scheme is:

1. Bloodwretch: The Rage Builds + strike Huggy. She relents (4 cards cycled: one for attack and 3 for damage) and it gives us 2 damage on Huggy (3-4 divided by Incorporeal) and +2 cards in a hand (1 discarded is an Ace that returns.)

2. Huggy: walk, drop scheme and heal herself 2 wounds with Malifaux Provides upgrade.

3. Dopel: copy The Rage Builds and do it for free (0 ap, needs 7+ tomes) + 2 strikes to Huggy. So we got more card cycling (9 cards total), 2 damage on Huggy (2x2 divided by Incorporeal) and +4 cards in a hand. 

So we got a 12-cards hand + all the flipped Aces (Disneyland scenario - 16) and 19 cards total cycled.

4. Emissary pushes Beckoner 4" - need any 4+, but on tomes trigger we get +1 card.

5. The Lynch himself activates as the last of the Crew: +2 cards.

So yes, making the 19-cards hand is only possible in Disneyland scenario - but average hand size on the Lynch activation is 13-15, which I consider also a great deal)

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20 hours ago, green-n-dumb said:

Is there a real difference between 10T and Neverborn Lynch?
Who is cheaper to play as a new player?

Am i getting right that Tannen, Graves, Depleted and Beckoners are core and duo-fraction models and suitinig well for both 10T and Neverborn side?

The difference is up to you. You can easily build a Lynch list that is virtually identical in both factions. But you can also build lists completely 1 factioned if you want. 

One of the differences are how you plan to make use of the free ace discards, as in Neverborn you are probably using it to fuel Tots and Gupps to run schemes, where as TT are more likely to be boosting TT brothers. 

The duel faction models are suited for both factions, obviously, and are a good starting point, but they are by no means Core. You can easily build without using any of them (as is shown by the card draw shown since your posts, its only using 1 beckoner from the core list and she is  not duel faction. (just Hirable in TT due to his infiltrate ability).

I personally find I don't see much point in playing the brilliance game, so I don't stick to his theme models, but if you do want to play that way, they work well.

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