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Soaring Dragon or oath-keeper


keget

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So this is a question I am torn on.  While I jumped at Soaring dragon when I first read it, I have had 2 lackluster times of it, and Diceman seems to have had a similar result...see this battle report for our details on how we made our crews and tried to use it.

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/131702-viktorias-on-parade-a-tournament-report-for-a-3-round-event-at-titan-games-and-hobbies-lutherville-timonium-md-9172017/?tab=comments#comment-1059265

I am looking for more first hand results.  So if you have tried soaring dragon on Vik of Blood what are your results?  Do you think it is worth the loss of oath-keeper, having to get a kill and pitching 2 cards?  If so, are you using a crew similar to the ones that I have?  Any info would be great, as this questions just seems so murky to me.

Thanks,

Steven

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To me the biggest draw back is that you need to unbury, then cast sisters in Fury, then charge...

So the only time you really get to line up activations as you like being turn 1, soaring dragon seems... lackluster.

I like just using the emissary, a void wretch and scion for a turn 1 missile.

I give the scion scout the field and oathkeeper.

Oathkeeper and shez'uul to blood.

 

Scion walks with scout the field (5")

Emissary pushes scion 3" with conflux of avarice upgrade (8") puts momento on blood and ashes goes in position for melee expert line of sight (and maybe casts sisters in Fury).

Void wretch buries Blood

Scion oathkeepers and triple walks (23") - then uses his (0) to pop out blood in front of him (24.2")

Blood chain activates using oath keeper and charging (34.2" with 4 attacks or 39.2" with 3 attacks threat range... what often happens is I get of 2 attacks with charge... everything dies, I walk and attack 1 more time).

 

Either I do this at the beginning of the turn when the oponent is clumped up (especially in corner deployment) for max whirlwind value, or I do it at the end of the turn if it looks like blood will live. In the case she does, next turn, if I get initiative Ashes pops oathkeeper and charges somewhere within 6 of blood who then chain activates... and at that point there is nothing left on the other side that could win the game.

 

So Soaring dragon inspired this.... but actually is useless in doing it.

 

Also for GG2018, half the strats require you to have models with a certain condition in play, so if blood gathers intel or collects evidence and buries she doesn't count for the strat.

 

If the viks had strong activation control and you could unbury Blood in the right place after the oponent activates important so that she is safe and can counter strike this would be awesome. But right now I don't feel like taking it... because the only way of using it is to use Ashes as a taxi to unbury blood and cast sisters in Fury, and even then, Blood can't chain activate, and Ashes doesn't do anything else that turn.

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1 hour ago, SirRocketPants said:

If the viks had strong activation control and you could unbury Blood in the right place after the oponent activates important so that she is safe and can counter strike this would be awesome. But right now I don't feel like taking it... because the only way of using it is to use Ashes as a taxi to unbury blood and cast sisters in Fury, and even then, Blood can't chain activate, and Ashes doesn't do anything else that turn.

My crew has the strong activation control of 10 activations, but you point out that I lose a few if she is buried.  Plus I have been using the Scion to pop out the Nothing Beast.  Also if I start with Blood buried, I can not bury the NB.  I am in the same place that soaring dragon inspired my list, but does not seem to be helping.

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I've taken SD once (just getting back into playing Viks).  After seeing my Opponents line up I chose not to start buried.  Later, when I should have buried after deleting Kang, I forgot about it until too late.  So while I got no use out of it, I saw it being more me than the upgrade.  For me, the jury is still outuntil I get in a few more games.

I do like the ideas above, I will try to use them in upcoming games.

 

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4 hours ago, keget said:

My crew has the strong activation control of 10 activations

We'll that's because you don't use all the tech to make the 40" alpha strike work.

 

I do like another list with 13 activations and a really strong alpha though:

 

Ashes with sister in fire + spirit + oathkeeper.

Blood with oathkeeper and shez'uul.

Child.

Emissary with conflux of avarice.

Rusty Alice with ....

4 abominations.

 

Abominations ping each other and walk up a little... 1 abomination gets killed and then Alice uses the scrap from the dead one to summon an abomination Ang Ives another one reactivate.

A couple more pings and summoning of the desolation engine. Desolation engine walks up.

Now we had 8 activations and got to draw.

 

Child casts fury.

 

Emissary gives Desi engine momento and gives blood the reactivation trinket. And pushes blood forward 3 inches.

 

We're at 10 activations... Probably nothing left on the other side.

 

Ashes walks twice and and pulls blood up usually keeping her oathkeeper for later.

 

Now blood goes in with 2 full activations with +2 damage up and 6 extra cards in hand from abominations... Ouch.

 

In the next turns the Desi engine gets reactivated every turn by Alice and as he gets to chain activate he can regenerate a lot of damage to get a safe second activation and ashes still has a 20" threat range with min damage 5 whirlwinds.

 That's usually enough to clean up whatever is left.

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1 hour ago, SirRocketPants said:

We'll that's because you don't use all the tech to make the 40" alpha strike work.

Correct, but with a 36 in board I don't see that as an issue.  :)  I do find the 11+ inches that Ash(ash has to have oath-keeper too) can pull Blood, with her taking oath-keeper (yet another time we take it over soar) she can walk then charge.  ~26 inches is enough, and if they have stayed so far back that it is not, I will launch Blood and NB on the next turn.

Yours is a neat list, and yet another one that does not use Soaring Dragon, but oathkeeper.  So far not hearing a lot of soaring dragon love.

Thanks,

Steven

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I'd say it's a horses for courses decision. Sometimes Soaring Dragon will be the better option, sometimes Oath Keeper. I used Scion to double walk and unbury Blood in cover before walking up with Ashes, casting Fury, and then chain activating Blood to go to town.

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19 minutes ago, SuperFly TNT said:

Soaring Dragon is for resetting and protecting Blood more than just a replacement slingshot. 

Totally agree.  My questions is ability to reset and protect Blood, better or worse than her dishing out more damage.  In my second game with it, I used Soaring Dragon that way, but she only got to use at on turn 2, and would have died top of turn 2 if not for RJ.  If she had oathkeeper she would have been safe at the top of turn 2 as she would have killed the enemy on turn 1.

Maybe the real answer is that you need to look at holding the Blood charge until top of turn 2.  In this last game I still may have gone on turn 1, as I find you have to get into Necoderm's face to put pressure on him, but I could hold back the NB and Blood till top of turn 2, like I used to do.

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the soaring dragon makes viks players think out of the box,split their tactic in small groups and wait for turn 2 with a smaller, but safer blood strike. It's way less all or nothing and its more consistent. Requires you to pick a crew that can win the game against an enemy crew that is not tabled turn 2 tho, which catches most vik crews off guard, since they are used to win from way more above.

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9 minutes ago, keget said:

Totally agree.  My questions is ability to reset and protect Blood, better or worse than her dishing out more damage.  In my second game with it, I used Soaring Dragon that way, but she only got to use at on turn 2, and would have died top of turn 2 if not for RJ.  If she had oathkeeper she would have been safe at the top of turn 2 as she would have killed the enemy on turn 1.

Maybe the real answer is that you need to look at holding the Blood charge until top of turn 2.  In this last game I still may have gone on turn 1, as I find you have to get into Necoderm's face to put pressure on him, but I could hold back the NB and Blood till top of turn 2, like I used to do.

You can also strike a smaller group on the side (schemerunners) where blood can kill everyone and be safe at the beginning of turn 2. Then attack the main targets turn 2 and burry. This needs other models to help her get in range for another strike on turn 2 tho.

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1 minute ago, Drunken Kung Fu Kid said:

You can also strike a smaller group on the side (schemerunners) where blood can kill everyone and be safe at the beginning of turn 2. Then attack the main targets turn 2 and burry. This needs other models to help her get in range for another strike on turn 2 tho.

I haven't had a chance to play with Soaring Dragon yet, but I think this is the key - the playstyle changes to using Blood Vik as more of a hard-hitting harrier than a throw-away alpha strike. That's how I plan to try it at first anyway...

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On 26.10.2017 at 3:06 AM, SirRocketPants said:

A couple more pings and summoning of the desolation engine.

...

Now blood goes in with 2 full activations with +2 damage up and 6 extra cards in hand from abominations... Ouch.

This all sounds like you let the re-activated use Vile Reclamations twice, but it's actually 'once per turn', so you'd only gain 5 extra cards, I think.

Still not too shappy ... ^^

 

*edit: Actually, you're paying 2 SS (for From the Aether) and a 10 to get the re-activation and one card. Doesn't seem worth it. I'd just go with the +4 cards from the aboms and save the SS either for Desolate Soul or something else. Then you could even give the Desolation Engine re-activate in the first round, if the opportunity presents itself ...

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Well the desolation engine gets reactivated every turn... And chain activates after rusty to get 3 self heal attacks off before anyone can kill it.

 

If the enemy gets close enough early on you can also reactivate the Desi engine instead of an abomination, but you have to make sure it gets to heal as Alice puts it down to 1.

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