Sonnia Meta

[4thstringer]

On 11/1/2017 at 1:07 PM, ConfuciuSay said:

I've never seen a Levi list like this. I'm not saying it's a bad one, but those aboms look like easy platforms to blast off of, and if you can remove the waifs Levi's mobility goes way down. I'd have to see it in action, but just at a glance that list doesn't scare me.

Grimwell would help to avoid the risk of a rogue bj or lack of suit from failing your pushing sonnia forward.

[4thstringer]

Please try lots of things out and figure out which works for you.  This game gets really boring when we get a meta groupthink going online.  

[Ludvig]

Yeah, don't go too heavy on netlisting. I tried the winning list and did terribly so it's not always a sure way. I've also seen some people bring stuff that "should" be bad and do very well. I find it a lot more rewarding to think of something yourself either way. 

Heartsbane would be good for pushing but you are relying on getting the right suit on the cast/in your hand which is why many don't like it.

[4thstringer]

Has anyone tried the Domador/Belle with Sonnia yet?  I'm thinking it is a nice little combo.

[JosephCurwen]

I played against molly yesterday and I realized that there are some ways to summon a lot.  If I win initiative I can buff sonnia with effigy right away. Either Molly summons towards the end or right away She can't risk quellers or witchling getting near because of the negative twist to ca actions. If she summons right away I setup burning(maybe spending a soulstone to get a tome) and I can get a couple of kills and possibly two summons.

That means +1card from the thallarian(+2 If I play both) +2 from effigy -6 for buff and summon

So 2 summons for 2 cards and a soulstone

[DeadManTalking]

3 hours ago, JosephCurwen said:

That means +1card from the thallarian(+2 If I play both) +2 from effigy -6 for buff and summon

Thallarian only allows you to draw one card regardless of how many you run. I tried running Reincarnation the other day and honestly I dont think it will work in competitive play. Too many resources and AP involved in getting it to work. I do see a big advantage to running No More Masks. Sonnia needs to be able to get out of combat and you wont always have a way of doing so with another model.

[Ludvig]

Molly should give you some summons if you try for it. She usually has hard to kill on her stuff so the first attack gets burning on but never kills and then you follow that up and summon. Always tricky to have enough cards for both summoning and winning duesl though. Maybe you could chuck a few soulstones on it if the spot is good enough.

[JosephCurwen]

44 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said:

Thallarian only allows you to draw one card regardless of how many you run. I tried running Reincarnation the other day and honestly I dont think it will work in competitive play. Too many resources and AP involved in getting it to work. I do see a big advantage to running No More Masks. Sonnia needs to be able to get out of combat and you wont always have a way of doing so with another model.

Yes, I missed the part about the Thallarian. Best would be having a high tome to cheat and use blasts on my witchling to get burning and the next two attacks to finish off models and summon. I don't know is it really a big resource investment if it allows me to gain some advantage in the attrition war and some minis for schemes? I don't know how I can play differently

[DeadManTalking]

1 hour ago, JosephCurwen said:

Yes, I missed the part about the Thallarian. Best would be having a high tome to cheat and use blasts on my witchling to get burning and the next two attacks to finish off models and summon. I don't know is it really a big resource investment if it allows me to gain some advantage in the attrition war and some minis for schemes? I don't know how I can play differently

So having come from Neverborn and regularly playing Dreamer who in my opinion is one of the best summoners, I dont think Guild can compete in the attrition game by trying to summon models. So far their play style seems to be to try and overcome opponents running attrition lists with overwhelming force. If Sonnia's summon could be done at her max range and didnt require LoS then maybe I'd say it was worth it, but she seems to run best in your backfield blowing things up at max range not in the thick of it where she becomes easy prey. Since shes not a dedicated summoner I think if you start relying on her summon to get models for scheming you're going to run into trouble. It's more of an icing on the cake summon, but in my opinion it comes at too steep a price for competitive play.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, ConfuciuSay said:

Thallarian only allows you to draw one card regardless of how many you run. I tried running Reincarnation the other day and honestly I dont think it will work in competitive play. Too many resources and AP involved in getting it to work. I do see a big advantage to running No More Masks. Sonnia needs to be able to get out of combat and you wont always have a way of doing so with another model.

I can confirm that is can work in competitive play. My Club mate ran it for 2014, and qualified for UK Masters with Reincarnation in every game I think. 

That said, it fitted the way he played Sonnia completely, so I wouldn't recomend everyone run it all the time. 

 

 

[DeadManTalking]

Just now, Adran said:

I can confirm that is can work in competitive play. My Club mate ran it for 2014, and qualified for UK Masters with Reincarnation in every game I think. 

That said, it fitted the way he played Sonnia completely, so I wouldn't recomend everyone run it all the time. 

 

 

Do you know what list(s) he ran? 

[Adran]

Its going back, But Largely,  (and there was some refinement during the year) I think it contained

Sonnia, Reincarnate, disrupt magic

Francisco, Wade in, Plant evidence (end of game push and drop a marker)

Samual Hopkins, Plant evidence

Witchling stalker

Brutal Effigy

Austringer

Death Marshall

.

The Plan was for Sonnia to set something on fire, and in most cases she could use stones to counter cover and get the suit. Often Turn 1 would see her walk twice, or walk once and focus, but once she was in position., she was able to kill one or two models a turn. 

Somewhere I thought I wrote a report where I faced it, I beat it in a Squatters rights game, but only because he never crossed the half way line. I lost my last models turn 5 and all I killed was Frank, and he summoned 2 or more stalkers over the game. I can't seem to find it at the moment

His biggest problem was Stake a claim games, but I think over the 9 events he played that list, he lost no more than 1 game an event, winning 1 events, and 2 other podiums

 

[4thstringer]

I don't there is such a thing as a good Sonnia stake a claim list. 

[4thstringer]

How do you all feel about investigators to help with card draw plus pushes? 

[Legislat]

I have great expectations from Queeg + 2 Investigators Sonnia list. The list is pretty customizable and Sonnia can be in the middle of the board with + 2 or +3 (with Queller) cards turn one . It is pretty horrifying. My latest thoughts on the matter:

Sonnia (Badge, Counterspell Aura, whatever else)

Master Queeg (Promises)

Francisco (Wade in, Hermanos)

Papa Loco (Numb)

Brutal Effigy

2x Guild Investigator

either Watcher or +4 stones in cash.

Here is the deal: 

Loco buffs Sonnia, walks away.

Franc walks, pushes sonnia, walks again.

Queeg walks, takes (1) action for (0) interracts then interracts himself, sonnia is pushed 3+3

Effigy walks, interracts, walks again, Queeg is pushed 3+3

First Investigator activates, draws a card, walks, interracts and so on and so on.

It needs a bit of practice to get going smoothly, but after that it is sooo rewarding.

I am sure this whole thing can be optimized for a better efficiency, but i need more practice to figure it all out.

[4thstringer]

4 hours ago, Legislat said:

I have great expectations from Queeg + 2 Investigators Sonnia list. The list is pretty customizable and Sonnia can be in the middle of the board with + 2 or +3 (with Queller) cards turn one . It is pretty horrifying. My latest thoughts on the matter:

Sonnia (Badge, Counterspell Aura, whatever else)

Master Queeg (Promises)

Francisco (Wade in, Hermanos)

Papa Loco (Numb)

Brutal Effigy

2x Guild Investigator

either Watcher or +4 stones in cash.

Here is the deal: 

Loco buffs Sonnia, walks away.

Franc walks, pushes sonnia, walks again.

Queeg walks, takes (1) action for (0) interracts then interracts himself, sonnia is pushed 3+3

Effigy walks, interracts, walks again, Queeg is pushed 3+3

First Investigator activates, draws a card, walks, interracts and so on and so on.

It needs a bit of practice to get going smoothly, but after that it is sooo rewarding.

I am sure this whole thing can be optimized for a better efficiency, but i need more practice to figure it all out.

What is letting queeg  double push off the effigy turn?

[Shock & Awe]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

What is letting queeg  double push off the effigy turn?

The investigator's "Stand Back! It's Evidence!" ability.  (Effigy is dropping a scheme marker I assume in his 'interact' step, which he does as a zero from Queeg's "Welcome to Hell and I am Your Devil" action.) This means the effigy has to drop that scheme marker within 4" of BOTH investigators, and the first investigator still has to be within 3" of Queeg, and after the first push he's (Queeg) still going to have to be within 3" of the OTHER investigator.

There are two investigators, and the ability states 'once per activation' - that seems to be what pushed Sonnia as well. 

The question, similar to Asura Rotten's thing, is if "once per activation" means more like, "you only get to do this once" or if multiple models can benefit from this multiple times in a single turn. 

Asura Rotten's is worded "once per activation" as well, but the recent FAQ stated: 

Can multiple models use Asura Roten’s Residents of Rottenburg Ability to take one of Asura’s Ml Actions outside of their Activation? For example, could multiple Rotten Belles take the “Undead Minions” Action as their attack from their Pounce Ability?

• No, it is once per Activation.

So it seems to stand to reason that if the Ressers can't use this over and over again, neither can we.  At least that's how I read it.  

[Ludvig]

The ability is on Asura Rotten and her alone. Here we have multiple models with the ability, it's like several canine remains reducing your defense, their abilities are independent. Each investigator is fulfilling the once per activation clause of their own push ability. 

[Atoli]

15 hours ago, Legislat said:

I have great expectations from Queeg + 2 Investigators Sonnia list. The list is pretty customizable and Sonnia can be in the middle of the board with + 2 or +3 (with Queller) cards turn one . It is pretty horrifying. My latest thoughts on the matter:

Sonnia (Badge, Counterspell Aura, whatever else)

Master Queeg (Promises)

Francisco (Wade in, Hermanos)

Papa Loco (Numb)

Brutal Effigy

2x Guild Investigator

either Watcher or +4 stones in cash.

Here is the deal: 

Loco buffs Sonnia, walks away.

Franc walks, pushes sonnia, walks again.

Queeg walks, takes (1) action for (0) interracts then interracts himself, sonnia is pushed 3+3

Effigy walks, interracts, walks again, Queeg is pushed 3+3

First Investigator activates, draws a card, walks, interracts and so on and so on.

It needs a bit of practice to get going smoothly, but after that it is sooo rewarding.

I am sure this whole thing can be optimized for a better efficiency, but i need more practice to figure it all out.

ok so how far all models are when Sonia activates after all of those actions?

 

[Shock & Awe]

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

The ability is on Asura Rotten and her alone. Here we have multiple models with the ability, it's like several canine remains reducing your defense, their abilities are independent. Each investigator is fulfilling the once per activation clause of their own push ability. 

That is true, I hadn't thought of that. 

My next question would be then, he's got it listed at 3 + 3 for Sonnia, which I assume is one 3" push from each of the investigators.  So they'd both used their 'once per activation'.  

So then, when it comes to Queeg, they'd have both used their one off, right?  

So any further dropping of scheme markers wouldn't move anyone, they'd have to pick one model each turn to do this too, correct?

 

[Ludvig]

Once er activation, not once per turn. As soon as a new model activates the ability is "reset" or however you choose to tvink of it. You can even do it once during each enemy activation.

[trikk]

23 hours ago, Adran said:

I can confirm that is can work in competitive play. My Club mate ran it for 2014, and qualified for UK Masters with Reincarnation in every game I think. 

That said, it fitted the way he played Sonnia completely, so I wouldn't recomend everyone run it all the time. 

I just want to point out that the fact something worked in 2014 doesn't mean its competitive now. I think this list would be chewed througg by a lot of lists now.

[4thstringer]

It's hard to say because gg2016 was tough on her generally.  And three different models in that list got nerfed   Would it work in 2017 adding in some new goodies?  Certainly worth a try.

[Gnomezilla]

7 hours ago, Atoli said:

ok so how far all models are when Sonia activates after all of those actions?

I have gotten a model with Lucius, Queeg, one investigator, and (0) scheme markers almost to the centerline before activating. The delicate net of positioning and scheme marker removal for fresh markers further up the board takes practice. With two investigators removing schemes and drawing cards? There’s nowhere to hide.

[Shock & Awe]

20 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Once er activation, not once per turn. As soon as a new model activates the ability is "reset" or however you choose to tvink of it. You can even do it once during each enemy activation.

I would tend to agree with this interpretation, but this brings me back to Asura Rotten.  It's written as once per activation, so why doesn't it reset as well?  It doesn't say once per turn either.