Henchman Hardcore

[The Governor-General]

So, I'm trying to make a pretty effective HH list, after using what I thought was a pretty well structured list of Ryle, two Wardens and a Hunter, and having it completely torn apart by Carlos Vasquez, Kandara, the Firestarter and something else.  I thought Ryle being able to heal, and the Hunter and Wardens being able to move opponents, and possibly paralyzing might be good, but it wasn't.  I'm not looking to specifically counter that Arcanist list, but I'm looking to really go punchy with it.  I wrote a few possible lists:

I guess first off, I can't decide between the Judge, and Ryle for leader, although I think I'm leaning Judge at this point

List one: Leader, Francisco (Wade In), Guardian, Brutal Effigy

List two: Leader, Francisco (Wade In), Master Queeg (Promises), the Governor's Proxy

List three: Leader (DttG), Francisco (Wade In), Master Queeg (Promises), Clockwork Trap

Basically, I'd like to get Promises in there, but doing so leaves me with only three stones if I'm taking any other upgrades, and only two if all three henchmen have upgrades.  I know the Proxy is a bad model, but he can heal, and maybe when he inevitably gets killed, he can take a model with him.  The trap also isn't horrible, I drop an activation, but I can hand out slow.  In either case, I realize that I'm really only using three models to do all the killing.  While the first list might be better defensively, the Effigy still isn't a particularly offensive model, and neither is the Guardian, despite his Ml stat.  I sort of think that three Promises buffed Henchmen is the way to go.  Thoughts?

[Gnomezilla]

Malifaux Child over the Governor's Proxy, all day, every day. Heck, even a guild hound over the little fat man!

A variant on list two: I moved Francisco up to leader slot and subbed in Johan with upgrade, which left me another stone for a 3ss filler. We had a henchman hardcore with Mark for Death as a scheme, so melee was strongly favored over shooty crews. Queeg popped the aura of (0) interacts, he and Johan marked, everyone murdered. Promises made a burial spam list cry. It was satisfactory in the practice games. However, on the day I loaned my Child out to another crew (where she promptly carried at least two games) so I had to fall back on list one led by Ryle, which was equally effective (until my crew ran into the one with the Child...and two relic hammers...and Lazarus...list one won't be any less vulnerable to the crew which tore you apart, is what I'm implying).

[Ludvig]

You know it's forbidden to save stones for your cache right? That might affect both your coice of leader and wether to go for promises or not.

I'm not a fan of missi g activations with traps but it's very hard to get upgrades on everyone to get max use out of Queeg and since Queeg himself isn't bvery killy you end up sort of toothless. 

I have trouble getting enough killing in my own HH games unfortunately. I think one or two looks best.

[The Governor-General]

I totally fail to see how the Child or a single dog is a good model in HH.  I also can't imagine why you'd want Francisco as the leader when he's fairly squishy, and is literally the only model who can't benefit from El Mayor.  Finally, we're doing Assassinate, not Mark for Death, so Queeg's role is Promises caddy and pushing. 

I know I can't save stones... If my math is right, all my lists go to 20.  I'm not a fan of missing activations either, but it's the only way to get max benefit from Promises, which I think could be really good.  The Judge with Debt and Promises could be reeeeeally stupid.  I'm also not sure that a clockwork trap is that much worse than a Guild Hound in HH. The dog is really just a throwaway activation.

[Ludvig]

Agreed on Francisco, that is just begging for getting assassinated. 

Don't really agree on the trap. The dog can score you turf war and is an activation. It can also move up to block a dangerous charge on your leader or charge to hopefully get that last hp off a model. The trap sits there and creates a zone of mild discomfort but can more easily be worked around. If your opponent went for a list that pushes you out of the scoring zone after you've activated each turn the trap will do you no good (because peon) and having only three activations means they have a decent chance of getting two completely unopposed activations where you can't recover by moving back into the turf zone. 

The last eight or so HH games I played neither player managed to kill the opposing leader but the games were decided by which player managed to push out or kill the other scoring models. If you take a df 6 leader and mayor that model you can usually deny assassinate and focus on pushing or killing chaff. Guild has the flexibility to pick a leader that is hanging out outside the turf zone so if the opponent uses a cheap peon to get a really big beater they're suddenly struggling on the strat while your leader like Ryle might be able to tank their attacks long enough for the game to end with you scoring 2 turf points to their 1 and them being a couple of HP away from killing you when time is called. Just my experience, I've never actually taken a clockwork trap. In that kind of game Queeg's pushes can prove really good.

[Bakuriel]

I generally go for promises queeg with two orderlies and whatever other beater model I like, such as Phiona. Orderlies are decent enough in melee, useful with the healing, and occasionally able to cycle cards with in the name of research. Queeg gets really irritating with the orderlies resetting hard to kill all the time, same for other henchmen 

Sometimes I'll swap out one orderly with a reporter, especially if I'm using phiona, and those negative attack flips are really helpful when the only way to get rid of them is to waste an ap dropping a useless scheme marker. 

[RustAndTheCity]

I've used a guild hound in henchman hardcore for a while. I take it because it fits at 3ss. It's good for scoring the turf war strategy. Good at absorbing charges. Good at putting the last wound on models. It's fast. It can tie up and put some damage on those annoying models that don't do much damage but cause havoc. It's an easy activation you can use first to avoid exposing your big models to a turn 1 charge. I'd prefer something like the brutal effigy but a dog is not a wasted hire.

 

I played a tournament recently with Phiona, Francisco, an executioner with ready to work and a guild hound. It finished in second at the tournament. Closely lost to an aionus and nothing beast crew when phiona got buried until the end of the game. With Francisco and phiona it was relatively easy to keep phiona at defense 8/9 for the start of the game. 3 models with high damage output. I like the list but your mileage may vary.

[lame0]

What about this:

20 SS Guild Crew
Phiona Gage / Captain Dashel 4-5 Pool
Burt Jebsen (8)
Monster Hunter (6)
Monster Hunter (6)

 This gives you a super solid list because every "master" is cost 7+ so basically you have two 7 wound armor 1 min three (often four) stalk models. At worst they get the buff vs 1/2 the enemy list but usually it's 3 big guys and a weak one.

Burt is just good for three AP min 3 not relying on support which is nice to have.

Phiona/Captain Dashel are probably the most surviveable non supported/upgraded henchman (have htk) guild has but it's tough because of the flexibility each brings...Captain can shoot & has armor (with decent triggers due to his free upgrade) and can give reactivate to a monster hunter in do of die situations. Phiona gets her free + flips if the target activated with a nice 10inch engagement range.

I think the list might change to the below if you go Dashel because then he gets a real advantage over phiona due to his free upgrade. Promises is a great upgrade but without the room for other upgrades it's tough. Having + flips to wp duels makes him more survivable and master queeg gets a (0) focus and +flips to his shooting attacks which means it can often lead to a nice 3/4/6 shot.

20 SS Guild Crew
Captain Dashel + 4 Pool
 - Arrest Him (0)
Master Queeg (7)
 - Promises (1)
Monster Hunter (6)
Monster Hunter (6)

I do think the list with Burt is probably better since having 4 strong ml monsters is nice but...depends on what you need to accomplish and if queegs utility/synergy with Dashel  is worth the trade.

Due to the monster hunter I think guild is probably one of the better henchman hardcore factions.

[FinalForm]

Judge 
Franc (8ss)
-wade in (1ss)
Jury (8ss)
Doggo (3ss)

Seems extremly legit. Judge with masks from Jurrys passive dishes out tons of attacks.

[Bakuriel]

20 SS Guild Crew
The Judge + 4 Pool
Govenor's Proxy (3)
The Jury (8)
Executioner (9)
 - Ready To Work (0)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

Who needs upgrades?! (Edit: forgot the 0 upgrade for executioner)

Seriously though, don't even know if this list would work or not, just felt like loading up the witch hunters for the hilarity. Somehow this seems half solid. Proxy mostly because he fits the cost but also because he can heal your beaters while providing an irritating duel to anyone who swats him. 

[Cleezy]

My two lists that are both unbeaten at HH

Judge, Franc, Phiona, brutal effigy

and

Judge, Franc, Jury, brutal effigy

Judge is a tough cookie with hard to sound and kill, made harder when def7 wp9

Franc is Franc, el mayor/flurry/finesse

Jury/gGage good def/good attacks/good ranged charge (personally prefer jury in HH for her 0 and healing also gives out slow and if damage card discard)

Effigy is tough to get rid of, scores, can heal/card draw on your leader

[The Governor-General]

So today, I took Ryle, Frank (Wade In), Guardian, and Brutal Effigy to a tournament.

3-0 with a +16 deferential to clinch 1st.

I won a 5 Guilder chip and the Broken Promises Upgrade Pack, so I'm pretty stoked.  Thanks for the help, everyone.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, The Governor-General said:

So today, I took Ryle, Frank (Wade In), Guardian, and Brutal Effigy to a tournament.

3-0 with a +16 deferential to clinch 1st.

I won a 5 Guilder chip and the Broken Promises Upgrade Pack, so I'm pretty stoked.  Thanks for the help, everyone.

Holy hell that's a big differential! Did you table them all?

[The Governor-General]

The first player I somehow kept out of the turf war zone the entire game, second player was tabled turn 2 (Snowstorm exploded and killed his crew), and third player was assassinated turn 3 with only one model going into turn 4.  I only lost models in the first game.

[Ludvig]

Haha, brutal!

[HobbyKnight]

At our last HH event here, I played a Guild list of:

Judge - Leader

Executioner - Big scary melee beatstick with a few tricks

Deathmarshal - Ranged + Melee, can box opponents model, or stash the Judge if he's getting too close to being assassinated

Orderly - Keeps stuff on the table a bit longer.

[Kouzelnik]

Today I played this one:
Phiona- Leader. Extremely survavible with Franc's buff, can make bonus attack if Allison is here, can drop on enemy model condition for Wp.
Francisco (Wade In)- tanky versus melee models.
Allison Dade - Excellent auras, good debuffs, may push enemy from the centre, just gain Slow or simply do damage - not many Scheme markers on these format and Hound is a Guardsman. Can damage incorporeal models  (I'm speaking about you, Nothing Beast).
Guild hound-can score Turf, buffs Allison damage, can bite.

I took a first place, it was tournament for 26 players, 4 rounds, and 4 wins.
 

[FinalForm]

After long tests I might say, that guild is the best faction in HH by far.

and your default list is:
-Judge(tankiest leader)
...
-Franc (with or without debt depending on ss cost of last model) 8ss
-Doggo 3ss can rarely be changed for brutal effigy (IMO only with jury, does not worth it with other picks)

You can easily juggle with

executioner (top dd, can heal, big threat range) 9ss

thrall(top tank, can heal, pretty mobile) 9ss

jury(squishy, good support, can heal others and remove conditions, can give masks to judge, card draw, can make models slow) + wade in on franc 9ss

phiona(some sinergy with judge, can create impas and teleport to engaged models, can generate some extra attacks, +flip on attacks sometimes) +wade in on franc 9ss

Any of this models brings great value, so play as you like

[Ludvig]

@FinalFormHave you faced the horrible Candy + Nekima staple neverborn list? That list run by a couple of different players have won several of our events. One players also has a vicious resser list, I haven't faced it but I think it's Archie and Yin with my little helper and a belle and or something like that.

[FinalForm]

28 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@FinalFormHave you faced the horrible Candy + Nekima staple neverborn list?

One players also has a vicious resser list, I haven't faced it but I think it's Archie and Yin with my little helper and a belle and or something like that.

No, i did not. Can you explain what is the combo.

If i remember correctly no models can be summoned via enything, but yeah, archie with little helper seems extremly salty. Yin is pretty dirty too.
IMO any henchmen with min 4 and 3 attacks are pretty broken in hh. On the other hand- no ss for you)

[Ludvig]

MLH makes you unable to target him and he can charge you and hit his push trigger to get you outside of MLH range so you can't charge back in.

The neverborn list relies on Nekima being really hard to handle in such a small format and Candy gets near where she will paralyze your first model to activate and hurt the last one, if Nekima takes something out turn one that gives you very little options for activation order. Can't remember how they fill their list out, it's the primordial magic and some other cheap model (powsibly effigy) to allow Nekima to fit without being the leader so you get some ss.

[FinalForm]

Tested new list for upcoming tournament.

-Phiona (leader)
-Franc
-Jury
-effigy

Phiona with htk and 9 def+ 2 sources of healing is absolutely unbreakable. I've tanked 4 models with her, getting hit only 2 times. She also brings 5ss cache, which is just great since you have 3 henchmen.